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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: thedefone]
    #8035511 - 02/17/08 09:18 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Sorry about the flame, but come on already.

Quote:

WBS has plenty of nutes for use as a substrate and can be cased without a bulk substrate just like rye berries.




It was my understanding that WBS doesn't case well, as it doesn't hold moisture as well as rye does.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: thedefone]
    #8035526 - 02/17/08 09:21 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I always added it to manure I didn't consider a straight wbs casing. Yeah that would probably not hold moisture too well.


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: Wolfgang]
    #8035804 - 02/17/08 10:22 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I have been experimenting on and off for about a year now with WBS. What I've found is you can case it without spawning it to bulk but it doesn't work as well. As noted above it doesn't hold moisture well. So you get small mushrooms unless you use a very deep layer of WBS. Also you have to keep your humidity pretty high. Here is an example of roughly 1.5 inches of Mexican Dutch King on WBS that was simply cased with MGMC/Verm.

MDK likes to flush pretty much continuously so at some point you have start looking at how small your mushrooms are getting and dunk your WBS.

Dunking straight cased WBS is a royal pain in the butt if you have a thin substrate layer. It likes to crumble easily. Which is one of the reasons it's so desirable as a spawn material. It breaks up easily and small so it makes thousands of inoculation points. Anyway I figured out that it's actually better to let the stuff crumble a bit, or even entirely while it's soaking. That seems to help re hydration a lot. Subsequent flushes from crumbled WBS have been larger (more fruits and larger fruits) than those dunked and not crumbled. The mycelium is very resilient and reforms a WBS cake quickly. I should note that I do not make much effort at removing the old casing from the crumbled WBS that is soaking. I just let it mix in. I believe it adds to the moisture content and helps the later flushes. I do however put fresh casing on top after draining the WBS and placing it back in a container. I don't wait for the WBS to form up the cake again either I just case it immediately.

I hinted above that deeper substrates lead to bigger fruits. Granted these are different substrains but I think you'll get the idea.

This is Costa Rica with I think 4 or 5 quarts of WBS and cased with MGMC.


This is 7 quarts of B+ on WBS.


I do not recommend using a straight WBS depth of an inch or less without putting some form of moisture reservoir at the bottom of the container such as 1/2 inch of moistened verm. That works much much better. I have forgotten this step a couple times and seen very dismal results.


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Invisiblebmiles
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Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: chucklehead]
    #8035827 - 02/17/08 10:28 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

^ damn, thats some very helpful info you got there sir.


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Never go with a hippy to a second location.


Edited by bmiles (02/17/08 10:29 PM)


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Offlinechucklehead
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Registered: 02/17/07
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: bmiles]
    #8035907 - 02/17/08 10:48 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Thanks!  The Shroomery community has been good to me.  I'm more than happy to help if I can.  And now that I'm feeling the good karma I think it's time to blaze. :thumbup:
:gethigh:


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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: Wolfgang]
    #8036056 - 02/17/08 11:26 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Yea I don't know what I was thinking, I was confusing them with sunflower seeds, so your right, sorry. It's been an off day for me.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


Edited by ScavengerType (02/17/08 11:31 PM)


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OfflineTyz
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Registered: 02/15/08 Happy 16th Shroomiversary!
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: Wolfgang]
    #8036174 - 02/18/08 12:00 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

there are some very nice nuggets of info there. thanx again

if i understand correctly casing for wbs cakes would be best off supplemented with verm. mixed in. and a healthy layer of wet verm. on the bottom. how do we feel about a small amount of perlite mixed in the casing any attempts or experience with this type of thing?


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Offlineitsallnines
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: Tyz]
    #8036193 - 02/18/08 12:07 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

perlite doesn't really HOLD water, water just coats it. not sure if it would hurt to have perlite in the casing, but i doubt it would help.


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by their fruits ye shall know them.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: itsallnines]
    #8036449 - 02/18/08 01:44 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

sometimes i use perlite to fluff up my casing mix if i run out of other things works fine.


--------------------
"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #8036477 - 02/18/08 02:04 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Personally, I like Rye.

Rye is a great for spawning and fruiting right off of it.

-Graham


--------------------
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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: Tyz]
    #8037843 - 02/18/08 12:54 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Tyz said:
there are some very nice nuggets of info there. thanx again

if i understand correctly casing for wbs cakes would be best off supplemented with verm. mixed in. and a healthy layer of wet verm. on the bottom. how do we feel about a small amount of perlite mixed in the casing any attempts or experience with this type of thing?




i wouldn't use verm at all.. maybe mixed in the casing layer and that's it.

no wet verm on the bottom.. doesn't really help and just makes a mess.. not sure about increases susceptibility to contams, but it just isn't necessary if you do your casing layer right..

and perlite would just be a waste in the sub.. it comes in some pre-mixed casings though.. so that's not bad.

since you're a noob i suggest goin to walmart and getting either jiffy mix, perfect mix, or miracle grow moisture control.


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OfflineTyz
Strangerthanfiction
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Registered: 02/15/08 Happy 16th Shroomiversary!
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #8038893 - 02/18/08 04:59 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

thanx for all this great info. i need to research some more. i'm obviously a generation or two behind with my technology. but now that i've found this great tool (you guys) i'll be up to speed soon. i'm sure i'll post again with my next series of questions.

Q. WBF v. PFtek
A. WBF


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: WBS v. PF tek [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #8039095 - 02/18/08 05:37 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

I like a little verm mixed into my MGMC.  I don't add perlite to anything either but it comes in the MGMC. 

As far as no verm on the bottom.  Well it works for me when I use a thin substrate layer. 

I don't use verm by itself as a casing except in the case of BRF cakes.  I've tried it.  It sucks.  Did I say it sucks?  Because it sucks.  Results in lots of useless substrate.  :bendoverrover:

I agree with drkrobotnik.  Get some MGMC or the like and use that.  It's easy and it works. 

As for Rye.  I don't care for it.  It works fine but it costs way more than WBS.  I can buy 20lbs of WBS for $6.00.  20lbs of Rye costs $15.80.  Hmmm.  Tough choice.  Plus I spent a lot more time working with WBS.  I know pretty much how to hydrate it and how to dry it.  I have had better success with WBS and I don't care as much if I lose a batch due to bad LC. 

Also it's tougher physically.  I tend not to have kernels bust open and contaminate as often as I do with Rye.  That I'm sure is largely due to inexperience but still.  I like WBS for what it is and what it can do.  It's what I know and I don't see much sense in switching back to Rye especially now that I have been learning the ways of manure.  Wow is that stuff amazing.  WHY didn't I try it sooner?  Alas poo is not the topic of this thread. :shrug: However I will say spawning WBS to poo is very easy.  You can mix it up and such without much fear of tearing open kernels in the mixing process.  I suck at layering.  So I put on gloves and gently mix horse poo, coir, or both with my WBS spawn.  That works pretty darn nicely. 

A few weeks back I made a few of those grain pocket bags.  You know the ones with manure as a bulk substrate bag and a well of grain poured into the center.  Once colonized the WBS massages nicely into the manure.  In the last couple of weeks I put 1.5 pints of WBS in one quart of straight coir.  It fully colonized in six days.:eek: 

Since I mentioned the grain pocket bags let me make a quick side note.  Those things are freaking great but be darn sure you are using a clean syringe.  I killed four of them the other day with a bad LC.:mad:  I knew better than to try a new LC on them but I was just itching to try my new strain.  Don't be a fool like me.  Shoot up a couple of BRF jars BEFORE you shoot up a grain pocket bag.  Otherwise it's a lot of work down the tubes.  And with that I'm off to test a few more LCs.

Good luck Tyz:goodluck:


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