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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Some newbie brewing problems
    #8038026 - 02/18/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

OK, so I started my first brew yesterday; a nut brown ale. When I got up this morning, about 8 hours since I finished starting the fermentation, the airlock was bubbling out of control, all over the lid. The temp was 77f external so I figured it was close to 90 inside. I immediately put it outside to cool it off. After about 30 min it completely blew the lid off the plastic fermenter. I sanitized the airlock and put the lid back on. It didn't take to long for the airlock to start gushing again. Unfortunatly I had to go to work totally expecting the lid to fly off once more.

When I got home sure enough the lid was on the floor of the balcony. The temp has fallen to about 72 external so I guess it is getting close to the acceptable range for ales.
My major concern of course is contamination.

Should I let it finish fermenting and see what happens or is it pretty much kaput. And is temp the most likely factor or is there something I'm overlooking?
Thanks.


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Edited by Aiko Aiko (02/18/08 01:41 PM)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038273 - 02/18/08 02:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, i'm no expert but I'll take a stab at it.

For the primary fermentation, I'd say you are supposed to have a blowoff hose to catch all of that main shit and get it out, before you put the airlock in. (I'm guessing you have 5 gal of brew in a 5 gal carboy) Also, you definately don't want to carry it out in the heat, beer should be kept in a cool, dark place. Also, you shouldn't have pitched the yeast with a 77degree temp, especially if you suspected that the beer inside was 90. (although i'm guessing you are incorrect, as the yeast is obviously working) What you need is an 1 1/4 inch plastic hose to blow off the bottle with the initial fermentation. I'd say that the only way to tell if it's still good is to wait and see, but if it's been outside on the balcony in the sun and heat all day while you're at work, I wouldn't hold my breath.




Oh yeah, i meant to add that, if you have the space and extra bottles, then you should just go ahead and let it go while you make another batch, but if not, then I'd go ahead and re-do it, remembering to put the tube in the bottle for the first 12 hours or so...


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038411 - 02/18/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I thought you only use a blow-off hose if your using a glass fermenter, I could be wrong though.
Yeah, your probably write, I shouldn't have have pitched it until it was a little cooler.
The outside air temp and the fermenter temps actually fell during the afternoon, so I'm hoping thats my saving grace and it was in a closet out on the balcony so I guess there is a small chance I avoided contams but thats probably wishful thinking.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038426 - 02/18/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If it's still capped with the airlock when you get home, then nothing new got in. If you caught the airlock right after it popped off, then resanitized and replaced, you should be good. What size fermenter u using? bucket or carboy?


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038484 - 02/18/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

6.5 gallon plastic bucket filled to 5 gallons.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038499 - 02/18/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

weird, i wouldn't think that 5 gallons would be enough to bubble out of a 6.5 bucket... Did you use an ingredient kit, or were you winging it?


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038660 - 02/18/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't either....:confused:
I was using a kit.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038688 - 02/18/08 04:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

if you were using a pre-measured kit with 5 gallons of water in a 6.5 bucket, i wouldn't think that it would bubble out. I still think though that the book says to use a tube for the primary fermentation blast. (Complete Joy of Homebrewing by Charlie Papazian)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038865 - 02/18/08 04:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It builds a foam up and that is whats called "blow off"

Pick up the book

Sacred & Herbal Healing Beers

This substantial and well written book explores beer history from it's ancient beginnings and the spiritual and medicinal properties of fermented beverages. Includes numerous recipes and brewing techniques, and has extensive descriptions of herbs used in brewing throughout the ages. A true departure from modern perceptions about alcoholic beverages. Inspiring!

By Stephan Harrod Buhner, 584 pp,

you will like it.. :wink:


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038873 - 02/18/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



none of that spiritual stuff. EVERY single homebrewer I have talked to since I got interested has and recommends a copy of this book.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038887 - 02/18/08 04:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

btw what is the temperature in your house?


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038892 - 02/18/08 04:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'll have to check it out. I've been pretty much going by John Palmer's guide I found here.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038904 - 02/18/08 05:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Right from the start, Stephen Harrod Buhner claims his book is heresy, “that fermentation and plant use—as medicine, as psychotropics, as teachers, as companions on our life path—are an inescapable part of what it means to be human.” It’s not exactly clear what the heresy stands against, aside from a vague notion of “popular beliefs” regarding alcohol, and undefined “politically correct” assumptions of material reality. The disclaimer of what’s obvious to me (that historically, alcohol is part of human culture) seems highly unnecessary.

In his first chapter, the author describes a “fall of Eden” scenario in the history of brewing. According to the myths in many ancient cultures, fermentation was handed to humans as a gift from a god or goddess, to be brewed by women in a sacred fashion; however, as Western civilization has grown, the process of brewing has passed to male hands and eventually to machines. Ever since, brewing has become an economic enterprise, and modern culture has lost touch with the sacred and healing aspects of fermentation. We can reclaim our Eden by honoring those aspects and restoring them to their rightful place.

This premise is interesting at first, but it gets a little tired from reiteration, paragraph after paragraph. Still, reading the parallels between brewing myths from one culture to the next throughout the chapters is fascinating, reminiscent of Jungian archetypes and Joseph Campbell’s work. Regardless of the base of their beer — honey, bananas, agave, corn, rice, wheat, barley, millet — each culture has similar stories regarding the gift of fermentation, and each has discovered beneficial properties of local plants as medicinal additives.

An early chapter discusses the narcotic effects of heather and the amazing medicinal qualities of honey; it alone is worth the price of admission (and is an early reward for slogging through the introductory dogma). Other books on brewing will tell you that mead is regarded as being the first fermented beverage known to humankind, but no brewing book goes into the depth of honey and hive products like this one. Among the startling facts: honey has been known to provide faster wound healing than pharmaceutical medicines; several groups of researchers have lived up to three months on milk and honey alone; many researchers claim that humans could live on a diet solely of pollen and water; consumption of hive products has been linked to lifespans of 150 years and older… the list continues. Peppered with recipes, poems and footnotes, the chapter on honey meads and heather ales is quite astonishing and well-researched.

The chapters that follow describe histories and brewing processes for a wide variety of brews made from grains, fruits and saps, as well as medicinal qualities of various plant additives. Dozens of recipes appear, in their original context or scaled down for experimentation at home. All components of beer and similar brews are covered: fermentable sugars, yeasts, and bittering agents such as hops. Quite interesting is the history of how hopped beer came into favor, edging out the traditional European “gruit ale” favored at the time. Demonized during the Protestant Reformation by religious/political/economic interests for its “unhealthy” narcotic, aphrodisiacal, and psychotropic qualities, the history of gruit ale prohibition — replaced by the hopped beer we know today — strikes a similar resonance to the prohibition of cannabis in American history.

The chapter devoted solely to “psychotropic and highly inebriating beers” is another eye-opener, exploring the often hallucinogenic effects of additives such as yarrow root, wormwood, mandrake, wild lettuce, and saffron. Although some of the plant additives are obscure or unknown to contemporary botanists, an appendix of sources listed at the back of the book could jump-start a search for rare ingredients. The author warns early on that he has not brewed every recipe listed, so your mileage may vary.

The book wraps up with chapters on beers made from medicinal trees (including recipes for alcoholic ginger, birch, and root beers) and medicinal plants (including recipes calling for mint, rosemary and St. John’s Wort). Concluding the book are appendices on meads, resources for supplies and further reading, and a section describing simplistic brewing techniques at home. It’s apparent that the author is a better historian than homebrewer, though he claims his homebrewing ideas are simply further extensions of the heresies expressed in earlier chapters.

I didn’t find the book all that heretical or shocking, though it might be considered so in highly conservative or tight academic circles. I did find it to be very informative, describing medical qualities of plants in a very accessible manner. There are certainly better books out there to help the beginning brewer, though experienced homebrewers looking for brews with healing properties or a hallucinogenic kick would find this book extremely intriguing

http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?p=147

:smirk:


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038913 - 02/18/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I guess somewhere around 75. My thermostat apparently isn't accurate...
I only have a cheap fish tank stick-on thermometer on the fermenter that was saying 77. I'm buying a good thermometer for the house tomorrow. But in the mean time I opened a window to try to get it down to about 70. (the wifes not gonna be to happy :smile:


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Edited by Aiko Aiko (02/18/08 05:08 PM)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Brainiac]
    #8038922 - 02/18/08 05:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"Sacred Herbal Healing Beers offers detailed information about the historical use and healing properties of many herbs, along with recipes for using these herbs in the making of beer. This book is neither an herbal text, nor a step-by-step homebrew guide, but it does contain very useful information for both herbalists and home brewers. Be warned, there is a lot of folklore here and the spiritual and healing properties of each herb are discussed in depth, but there are some really awesome recipes too. As an amateur home brewer the most exiting thing for me is that the book offers you a chance to go beyond the usual self-contained beer kit recipes and encourages experimentation, often with great results (the Yarrow beer was outstanding!). If you use recipes as guidelines and cook with abandon this book is for you."

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0937381667?filterBy=addFourStar


We're new brewers, and this book is not going to help us understand the process of homebrewing.  While it may be a good read, it would be a waste of money if one were looking for a guide to introductory homebrewing.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8038939 - 02/18/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah u not even sposed to pitch yeast until it's below 75, so I'd recommend turning up your a/c, or moving the project to the basement. Either way, a functional thermostat is k3y.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8038940 - 02/18/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Both of these books are very good. It has a very good Step by step in the back of the book.

If its too hot for the back of your hand.Then its to hot for the yeast.Old baking/brewing tip


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Edited by Brainiac (02/18/08 05:19 PM)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Brainiac]
    #8038944 - 02/18/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

my book is recommended way more than your book, and :epenis:


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Brainiac]
    #8038948 - 02/18/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

BTW you've offered absolutely nothing that pertains to the thread topic...


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8039013 - 02/18/08 05:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Gobblin said:
OK, so I started my first brew yesterday; a nut brown ale. When I got up this morning, about 8 hours since I finished starting the fermentation, the airlock was bubbling out of control, all over the lid. The temp was 77f external so I figured it was close to 90 inside. I immediately put it outside to cool it off. After about 30 min it completely blew the lid off the plastic fermenter. I sanitized the airlock and put the lid back on. It didn't take to long for the airlock to start gushing again. Unfortunatly I had to go to work totally expecting the lid to fly off once more.

When I got home sure enough the lid was on the floor of the balcony. The temp has fallen to about 72 external so I guess it is getting close to the acceptable range for ales.
My major concern of course is contamination.

Should I let it finish fermenting and see what happens or is it pretty much kaput. And is temp the most likely factor or is there something I'm overlooking?
Thanks.




Yes it will be contamed,It could be good or bad.
It won't kill you.Some sour beers sell for 6.00.

Ales like it warm, lager likes it colder.But, you can brew a lager at ale temp and a ale at lager temps.


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Edited by Brainiac (02/18/08 05:35 PM)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8039302 - 02/18/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GoodbyeOrb said:
if you have the space and extra bottles, then you should just go ahead and let it go while you make another batch, but if not, then I'd go ahead and re-do it





although it may turn out fine. no one can say with 100% certainty that it will be contaminated.


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8041633 - 02/19/08 04:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thats what I'm going to do. I got the temp down to a constant 70, so with a little luck, minimal contams, and an extra week or two of aging and conditioning, maybe it will be at least drinkable.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8044611 - 02/19/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I wouldn't say that any extra time in the fermenter would do it any good. I'd say plan on bottling like normal, take your gravity reading, then taste the sample. If it tastes off, you save yourself the extra 7-10 days in the bottle, but if it tastes okay, then you know you should be good.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8046020 - 02/20/08 01:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

To my understanding beer was originally brewed in open air vats to no real detriment to the beer.
I've never heard of a 6.5 gal bucket's lid being forced off by the building pressure, typically only the air-lock would be able to fly out of it's seal. I have a feeling you did not get the lid completely secured down onto the bucket (at least w/ mine, it is a pain in the ass to get it secured down but once it is, it's not coming off to easily).

Give it a chance, unless you see obvious objects floating around in the beer. Yeast is a very dominant organism which once it establishes itself as the dominant organism, no other bacteria can compete against it.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: SFsorrow]
    #8046118 - 02/20/08 04:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Cool, thats what I'm hoping for. I think the airlock was getting clogged
and not popping out; the seal around it is very tight, so the lid had to. If it wasn't on tight I imagine the gas would have been able to escape through the broken seal in the lid and it shouldn't have blown off. Who knows.....All I can do is wait it out and learn from it.

GBO, I was thinking maybe two weeks in the fermenter and three for bottle conditioning, no?

Oh yeah, It has pretty much stopped bubbling.


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Edited by Aiko Aiko (02/20/08 05:03 AM)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8046282 - 02/20/08 07:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Seems kinda long to me. Which type of airlock are u using?

These kind are known for clogging up from time to time:


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8048119 - 02/20/08 04:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)


3 piece and My Starter Kit

I'm basing the large majority of my info from John Palmer's guide: How To Brew
here's an excerpt, the whole guide has a lot of useful info.

Many canned kits will advise bottling the beer after one week or after the krausen has subsided. This is not a good idea because the beer has not yet gone through the Conditioning phase. At this time the beer would taste a bit rough around the edges (e.g. yeasty flavors, buttery tones, green apple flavors) but these off-flavors will disappear after a few weeks of conditioning.


Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8050725 - 02/21/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

hmmm, no clue as to why it blew off. What course of action have you decided on?


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8053438 - 02/21/08 07:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm gonna let it ferment for 10 days, give it a good look and smell for contams and possible a taste if it smells OK. If all is well, I plan on bottle conditioning for 3 weeks.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8054638 - 02/21/08 11:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If it does sour, use the bottom (yeast) in bread.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8055376 - 02/22/08 07:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Gobblin said:
I'm gonna let it ferment for 10 days, give it a good look and smell for contams and possible a taste if it smells OK. If all is well, I plan on bottle conditioning for 3 weeks.




Keep us posted.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8056795 - 02/22/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Definitely!


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8074173 - 02/26/08 07:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I have been brewing for a couple of years now and sometimes the airlock and cork just shoot out of the primary fermenter, just sanizize and put it back in , there are also methods of having a cork with 2 holes one with a small hose into a bucket of water beside (to make an airlock) to releive some extra pressure. try not filling it so full next time to leave room for the gasses made by the fermentation. The worst though is not when the cork flies out it is when the cork gets sucked into the fermenter and hten you are stuck with a rubber cork forever in your fermenter... this is not fun


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8076680 - 02/27/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Gobblin, check out this thread regarding the blowoff probs: homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=54175


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8076963 - 02/27/08 11:59 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Very interesting! That's what I'm doing next time for sure. Thanks alot for the link, man.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8093996 - 03/02/08 03:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Tasted pretty damn good for warm, un-carbonated ale:grin:
I think every thing's gonna be alright!
:cheers:


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8096565 - 03/03/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

word, and congrats. my 7 days is up weds, so should be moving to bottling soon.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8097798 - 03/03/08 02:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

What kind?


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8098215 - 03/03/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

cranberry hefeweizen. As gay as it sounds, my friend is the one that picked it, he wanted to make something unique. We'll see how it turns out. I'm thinking IPA for the next go around. Whatever it is, we're going to do some more LME brews to get some more experience under our belts.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8098508 - 03/03/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Yummm...hefeweizen, not sure about the cranberry though...
it will definetly be different. I'm gonna try a scotch ale over spring break, I bought the ingredients yesterday; it's a pretty expensive recipe at $55. It's suppose to finish with a 8.3% ABV, that should make it worth it though. I'm gonna study up on making your own extracts, then you can start saving alot of money.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8101153 - 03/04/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I believe you mean all grain, which is a better way to go. I'm studying that too, and preparing to make equipment, but I want the experience of a couple of brews under my belt first. The cranberry, if nothing less, is going to be interesting. If it's even remotely tasty, I'll get your addy and send you a bottle or two if you are close and the shipping isn't ridiculous. As for scotch ales, I haven't had too many, but i've yet to find one that i like. any suggestions? I was thinking high grav imperial IPA this go around, and was reading up about "reiterated mashing" with all grain which looks pretty cool, this months "BYO magazine"


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8104762 - 03/05/08 04:28 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I like scotch ales because of the smokiness mostly. Sam Adams has a good one, but I've only seen it sold in the variety packs. Saranac's are also good but there not as hopped as the Sam's.
Sounds like a plan, how do you fell about Nut Browns?


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Edited by Aiko Aiko (03/05/08 04:29 AM)


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8105485 - 03/05/08 10:20 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Nut Browns are tasty, but I'll admit that the Sam Adam's Scotch Ale is, at least at the moment, the worst beer I've ever tasted.  Didn't even taste like beer to me.:shrug:  You're right though, it came in the variety pack.


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8121107 - 03/08/08 08:06 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Gobblin,
Have you transfered the ale into a glass fermenter yet? Have you noticed any white spots on top of the beer? Do you notice what looks like sediment on the top edge of the beer in the fermenter when you tilt it?

I just had a coffee stout of mine ruined by air-borne bacteria/mold once I transfered it to my secondary fermenter. There was about a gallons worth of sediment on the bottom of my primary and there was no way for me to have salvaged all that waisted beer. Thinking nothing of the HUGE amount of air in my secondary since I added additional yeast nutrients and energizer to the beer while I was siphoning it into the secondary. About 16 hours later I noticed some white dots forming on the top of the beer. A few hours later they grew more.
I'm looking at my secondary right now and all I see is about $55 worth of ingredients gone to waste. Bummer.
No more big beers for me for a while.

Whats a good spring ale?


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: SFsorrow]
    #8122462 - 03/09/08 05:37 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't transfer to a secondary, I just bottled after two weeks. It looked relatively clean and tasted good as well. Two more weeks of conditioning, cant wait!


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8137227 - 03/12/08 02:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

mine is bottle conditioning now, but i'm betting on a colossal failure. :thumbup:


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #8137876 - 03/12/08 05:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

why do you say that??


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Re: Some newbie brewing problems [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #8138104 - 03/12/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

it smells kinda' like beer, but it doesn't taste like it. (tasting hydrometer sample)


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