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Offlinelonestar2004
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Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism
    #8037967 - 02/18/08 01:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism


Obama closely echoed a passage from a speech that Deval Patrick used at a campaign rally when he was running for that office in 2006.
Photo: AP



Howard Wolfson, the Clinton campaign's communications director, today accused Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) of committing “plagiarism” in a speech in Milwaukee on Saturday night.

Wolfson made the explosive charge in an interview with Politico after suggesting as much in a conference call with reporters.

On the call, Wolfson said: “Sen. Obama is running on the strength of his rhetoric and the strength of his promises and, as we have seen in the last couple of days, he’s breaking his promises and his rhetoric isn’t his own.”

"When an author plagiarizes from another author there is damage done to two different parties. One is to the person he plagiarized from. The other is to the reader," said Wolfson.

Obama closely echoed a passage from a speech that Deval Patrick, now the Massachusetts governor, used at a campaign rally when he was running for that office in 2006.

The Clinton campaign circulated a pair of YouTube links of the two speeches on Sunday.

Here's Patrick at a rally for his gubernatorial campaign on Oct. 15, 2006, during the final stretch of his successful campaign against then-Massachusetts Lt. Gov. Kerry Healey (R):

“But her dismissive point, and I hear it a lot from her staff, is that all I have to offer is words — just words. ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, [applause and cheers] that all men are created equal.’ [Sustained applause and cheers.] Just words – just words! ‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself.’ Just words! ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.’ Just words! ‘I have a dream.’ Just words!”

Here’s Obama on Saturday night at the Democratic Party of Wisconsin’s Founders Day Gala in Milwaukee:


“Don’t tell me words don’t matter! ‘I have a dream.’ Just words. ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.’ Just words! [Applause.] ‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself.’ Just words — just speeches!”





An Obama official said: “They're friends who share similar views and talk and trade good lines all the time.”

Obama apparently ad-libbed the remark, which was not in his text.

The Massachusetts governor said in a statement: “Sen. Obama and I are longtime friends and allies. We often share ideas about politics, policy and language. The argument in question, on the value of words in the public square, is one about which he and I have spoken frequently before. Given the recent attacks from Sen. Clinton, I applaud him [for] responding in just the way he did.”

The Obama campaign immediately struck back with a document headlined: "Here are a couple of places Clinton freely borrowed rhetoric from Obama."

Among the examples are Clinton's use of Obama's signature chant "fired up and ready to go" in Davenport, Iowa, and later her echoing of his rally cry, "Yes, we can!"

The plagiarism wars are the nastiest turn yet in the Democratic presidential nomination race as the campaigns gird for clashes in debates in Texas and Ohio, to be followed by primaries in those states on March 4.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8570.html


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8038006 - 02/18/08 01:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)




wow

Obama has lifted the entire campaign of Duvel Patrick who ran in 2006.


Jesus


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8038283 - 02/18/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

He's like Philadelphia. There's no there there.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8038284 - 02/18/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

On the call, Wolfson said: “Sen. Obama is running on the strength of his rhetoric and the strength of his promises and, as we have seen in the last couple of days, he’s breaking his promises and his rhetoric isn’t his own.”





lol


Hillary could teach everyone about running on empty rhetoric




How is this a big deal though? I don't care where the idea comes from, I care about its strength.

(lets ignore for a moment that these candidates' speeches are vapid idea-less wastelands anyways, which contradict their previously stated or suggested positions, so it doesn't fucking matter)


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: johnm214]
    #8038396 - 02/18/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Obama has not accomplished one thing while in the Senate.

i have repeatably asked shroomerites to please point out anything he has accomplished.

(Cricket Sound)



So IMO if Obama is running and winning on rhetoric it should at least be authentic.


BTW

"Joseph Biden's campaign also ended in controversy after the Delaware Senator was accused of plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party. Though Biden had correctly credited the original author in all speeches but one, the one where he failed to make mention of the originator was caught on video and sent to the press by members of the Dukakis campaign. In the video Biden is filmed repeating a stump speech by Kinnock, with only minor modifications."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_1988


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8038908 - 02/18/08 05:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

So IMO if Obama is running and winning on rhetoric it should at least be authentic.





And if he's running as a black man he should at least be black.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8038912 - 02/18/08 05:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

And if Hillary is running as a woman she should at least be. .. ??
Nevermind, I sure as hell aint checking.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039330 - 02/18/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

So IMO if Obama is running and winning on rhetoric it should at least be authentic.





And if he's running as a black man he should at least be black.




to be fair, has he been trumpiting that he's black? I'm not aware of it, though he's sure not correcting people, is that really an issue?

--

and as for lonestar, how is an idea less authentic if its someone else's? In this case we're just talking about phrasing, not ideas anyways.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039344 - 02/18/08 06:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

So IMO if Obama is running and winning on rhetoric it should at least be authentic.





And if he's running as a black man he should at least be black.

And if Hillary is running as a woman she should at least be. .. ??
Nevermind, I sure as hell aint checking.





:rofl2:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: johnm214]
    #8039419 - 02/18/08 06:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:


and as for lonestar, how is an idea less authentic if its someone else's? In this case we're just talking about phrasing, not ideas anyways.




IMO it just proves that he's an empty suit preaching the same speeches and ideas....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8039452 - 02/18/08 06:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Authorized or not, plagiarism is the act of presenting someone else's work as your own.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: johnm214]
    #8039536 - 02/18/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The thing is, his supporters are believing he has what it takes to be an inspiring and motivational leader who can unite people behind him.

If he can only get people to believe that through using the words of someone who truly has those abilities, what happens if he gets elected and doesn't really have those skills?

Is there enough moving material to rip off daily to get him successfully through a 4 year term or will the dud in him become exposed after it's too late to back track?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8039738 - 02/18/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know, but why do we need a president to be motivating anyways? What's the point?

Use the millitary wisely, veto the bullshit, ask congress for stuff, pardon those w/ bullshit conviction/ commute those sentences that are unreasonable, and don't make things worse than they allready are.


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OfflineDonkeyShell
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: johnm214]
    #8040320 - 02/18/08 09:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Use the millitary wisely, veto the bullshit, ask congress for stuff, pardon those w/ bullshit conviction/ commute those sentences that are unreasonable, and don't make things worse than they allready are.




in other words, just don't be W.

for love of god don't be W.

Obama 08


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Offlinebhamlaxy
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: DonkeyShell]
    #8041433 - 02/19/08 01:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A little close? Maybe. But plagiarism? Hell no. I mean come on, of course politicians in the past have used change as a message. Politicians use the messages of past politicians all the time.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #8041560 - 02/19/08 04:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Plagiarism? :rofl2:

The Clinton campaign is getting increasingly desperate for any footing they can get to stand up agansit Obama's momentum.

It was a speech, off-the-cuff at that. Not only that, but the person who said the line before was a close friend who applauds his usage of it. I'm surprised no one accused Patrick of plagiarizing "I have a dream" or "There is nothing to fear but fear itself" when he referenced those speeches without actually stating who said them before. :lol:

Most of us will repeat phrases we pick up from others through the course of discussion, especially people who share views as us and are friends of us. Maybe if it was a whole speech and not just two sentences, it'd be a different story. :shrug:

Let's recap... Obama said two sentences that a friend has said in his campaign a couple of years ago, a small handful of people have fainted in Obama's rallies over the course of two years, everyone calls Obama black but he's actually mostly Caucasian and Arabic... dash dude, some monster. :lol:


--------------------
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I wouldn't fear
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #8041565 - 02/19/08 04:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Double post?  :rofl2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Edited by Seuss (02/19/08 07:16 AM)


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8042101 - 02/19/08 09:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Let's recap... Obama said two sentences that a friend has said in his campaign a couple of years ago, a small handful of people have fainted in Obama's rallies over the course of two years, everyone calls Obama black but he's actually mostly Caucasian and Arabic... dash dude, some monster.




:yesnod:  Anything but focusing on the issues.

And it's always the same people pushing these stupid stories.

I mean is that all you got? It's hilarious.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: zorbman]
    #8042151 - 02/19/08 10:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

little by little the Obama's will be exposed.;)


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineHighHat
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8042701 - 02/19/08 12:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

little by little the Obama's will be exposed.




Everyone who runs for president gets exposed, then publicly flogged. Its pretty damn masochistic if you ask me (running for president).


--------------------
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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: HighHat]
    #8042777 - 02/19/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HighHat said:
Quote:

little by little the Obama's will be exposed.




Everyone who runs for president gets exposed, then publicly flogged. Its pretty damn masochistic if you ask me (running for president).





right:rotfl:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: zorbman]
    #8042940 - 02/19/08 01:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

Let's recap... Obama said two sentences that a friend has said in his campaign a couple of years ago, a small handful of people have fainted in Obama's rallies over the course of two years, everyone calls Obama black but he's actually mostly Caucasian and Arabic... dash dude, some monster.




:yesnod:  Anything but focusing on the issues.

And it's always the same people pushing these stupid stories.

I mean is that all you got? It's hilarious.




Is it just me or are there a TON of people who can't wait to start the mudslinging against Obama in particular? There is just this willingness to get the fight as dirty as possible as quickly as possible.

I don't care if people want to criticize Obama or anyone else in regards to politics, but I just hate it when the fight gets centered around bullshit like this. It is like watching Jerry Springer on a National scale.

I guess as long as the mud is as thin as this, and doesn't stick, the best policy is just to ignore. And of course we only have Clinton's people to blame in this case.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8042979 - 02/19/08 02:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

BOTH Obama and the Clinton's are "mudslinging"


the Republicans are sitting back and laughing:rotfl:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8043167 - 02/19/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
BOTH Obama and the Clinton's are "mudslinging"


the Republicans are sitting back and laughing:rotfl:




Do you really think that? How many threads have you personally started in an attempt to prove that Obama is a racist/a liar/an opportunist/a phony/a whatever else? Look at your avatar and signature! You are a walking Obama mudslinging machine!

That's fine, we all have our agendas. Mine is to convince people that Barrack is the lesser of three evils. But I'm not starting thread after thread about McCain's wife or Hillary's crocodile tears, and if I was I would admit it. The notion that the republicans aren't slinging mud is empty.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8043210 - 02/19/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Know thine enemy.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblebradmassive
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8043222 - 02/19/08 03:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Know thine enemy.




Didn't you say you voted Obama?


--------------------
"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: bradmassive]
    #8043234 - 02/19/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i will only be voting for Obama March 4th in the Texas primary.

Just to help kill the witch!

McCain in November 2008:thumbup:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #8043318 - 02/19/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bhamlaxy said:
A little close? Maybe. But plagiarism? Hell no. I mean come on, of course politicians in the past have used change as a message. Politicians use the messages of past politicians all the time.





maybe, but its odd to watch. and i think the other dude sound better saying it than Obama.

Does anyone else notice that?


http://www.primetimepolitics.com/primetime/site/video/obama_plagiarizing_again/


Here is Deval Patrick on June 3, 2006, according to an 11-second video

"I am not asking anybody to take a chance on ME. I'm asking you to take a chance on your OWN aspirations."

Here is Barack Obama on Nov. 2 in Manning, S.C., according to an 11-second YouTube video

"I'm not just asking you to take a chance on ME. I'm also asking you to take a chance on your OWN aspirations."


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Clinton aide accuses Obama of plagiarism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8043419 - 02/19/08 03:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
i will only be voting for Obama March 4th in the Texas primary.

Just to help kill the witch!

McCain in November 2008:thumbup:





why do you prefer obama to hillary?

just curious.... seems like hillary and him are about on par on retoric/ supposed platform, but hillary is worse at saying one thing and doing another... or changing her mind and blaming someone other than herself for her political waverings


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