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OfflineVisionary Tools
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This is What A Police State Looks Like
    #8037638 - 02/18/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8037978 - 02/18/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

who cares


I like it

Keeps both sides honest, at least for what is shown.

I'm much more concerned about arrest and search, not the video.


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OfflineAll We Perceive
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8038019 - 02/18/08 01:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So what's your point... I hope you're not trying to link the "police state" to present day America through a an anecodotal film narratared by some random chick and a link to nazism and fascism.  Come on.

:chillpill:


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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: All We Perceive]
    #8038035 - 02/18/08 01:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, he is.

He's an absolute fucking crazy.

Hey V_T, did it ever occur to you that maybe they are filming for training? Or to prevent a bogus police brutality charge? I've been to protests and things are often heated and in extremely close-quarters. It would be ridiculously easy for something either a protester or a cop did to be mistaken as use of force and then be taken to a court.

If this was Nazi Germany, they'd fucking shoot people like you. Instead, you are free to scream your pet theories from the top of your lungs. You're just upset because nobody believes you and nobody cares.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8038055 - 02/18/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't live in your country, here it's illegal to protest. If you try, you will be shot, you will be trampled by mounted policemen, and you will get beaten.

They were not violent, they didn't provoke the police. The police unlawfully honoured an order to move them away from the hotel.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8038071 - 02/18/08 01:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

where are you from?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8038313 - 02/18/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The illegal protestors are acting like Nazis. Yes, I can see that.



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OfflineSage.Phish
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Luddite]
    #8038394 - 02/18/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

In the US, or at least DC you have to have a permit to protest, thats what the capital police told me.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Sage.Phish]
    #8038532 - 02/18/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sage.Phish said:
In the US, or at least DC you have to have a permit to protest, thats what the capital police told me.




Whether this is the law or not (which I doubt) its probably unenforcable.

Generally the law has to allow people that aren't causing trouble to congregate and protest in small numbers without notice to the city. These protests can be stopped if they cause public nuisance.

My guess is that in D.C. you need a permit to protest in groups of more than x number of people


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Sage.Phish]
    #8038578 - 02/18/08 03:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is a classic recipe of a bogus fear-tactic: 1 part emotional protesters 2 parts police arrest claiming to be unfair 9 parts hitler clips. Evey time the police identify a protester, the reason for their concern is [inaudible]. Remember, this is the WTO protests in Seattle where anarchists were looting, protesters were blocking hotels where WTO officials were staying etc.

I can only speculate, but I'm quite positive the reasons for those arrests were legitimate based on things not shown in that video. An arrest is not a conviction or, like Nazi Germany, a death sentence.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #8038592 - 02/18/08 03:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FocusHawaii said:
Remember, this is the WTO protests in Seattle where anarchists were looting, protesters were blocking hotels where WTO officials were staying etc.

I can only speculate, but I'm quite positive the reasons for those arrests were legitimate based on things not shown in that video. An arrest is not a conviction or, like Nazi Germany, a death sentence.




1. seattle wto has nothing to do with this, guilt by association

2. being positive the police's actions were justified due to unavailable information is as much an investment in prejudice as opposed to reason as concluding that their actions weren't justified


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Invisiblebradmassive
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: johnm214]
    #8038667 - 02/18/08 04:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Sage.Phish said:
In the US, or at least DC you have to have a permit to protest, thats what the capital police told me.




Whether this is the law or not (which I doubt) its probably unenforcable.

Generally the law has to allow people that aren't causing trouble to congregate and protest in small numbers without notice to the city. These protests can be stopped if they cause public nuisance.

My guess is that in D.C. you need a permit to protest in groups of more than x number of people




If it doesn't gel with the constitution you don't have to obey at all (but it's gonna get you in trouble if you don't). The groundwork has been laid for a fascist society so we have to make sure that doesn't happen in the future. We have the right to peaceful protest. Never forget our rights and we don't need no permits from the government.


--------------------
"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson

"Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: johnm214]
    #8038671 - 02/18/08 04:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The Cops aren't the ones withholding information.

If the protesters are so innocent why produce such shitty audio in YOUR video?

What are they trying to hide/


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: johnm214]
    #8038921 - 02/18/08 05:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This video is old school.

What is a police state?
The term may be an attention getting device thats doing more harm than good here.

What's curious to me are the seemingly knee jerk reactions of:
"You're crazy!"
"Oh, it's not that bad!"
and
"You're lucky you don't live in ______ then you'd really have something to complain about!"
What next?
"Love it or Leave It"?
?

If these were right wing libertarians being shot at and mass sprayed I wonder how you guys would react. Although I must admit I've never seen a group of Right Wing Libertarians march for anything. Ever.

Maybe you haven't seen the same videos I've seen. Videos of police just generally acting like arrogant bullies and laughing that they shot some lady in the forehead with a rubber bullet. and etc. etc.



I know from small personal experience that in San Antonio when we applied for a protest permit at UTSA they gave us one pretty quickly.
They told us we could protest in some parking lot out in BFE end of story.


And I don't consider myself an 'activist' but I was part of a Food Not Bombs protest once in Texas and I personally saw strange men call the organizers by name...undercover policemen (I'm guessing) talking with police and then calling out the names of some of the organizers.

The individual then drove up ahead of this particular Anti-War March and filmed us walking by.

I doubt very seriously that this was a 'training video' or protection from a charge of abuse as there were no police on that stretch of road we were walking down. (We were on our way between two meeting places.)

Maybe they were making a film, "This is What a Ridiculously Small, Ridiculously Unorganized Protest March Looks Like"?

And obviously I'm not saying these experiences makes America a police state but I can sympathize more with those protesters perhaps because of them.

But then again I tend to sympathize with underdogs to begin with.
I'm kinda liberal that way.

And anytime I see someone dressed up like a freakin black Ninja Turtle with tons of gear abusing some harmless asshole in the street protecting him/herself with a cardboard sign....it gets my attention.

I like to think that makes me more American.
Don't you agree?


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8039303 - 02/18/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
The Cops aren't the ones withholding information.

If the protesters are so innocent why produce such shitty audio in YOUR video?

What are they trying to hide/





well I don't know if I necessarily share your suspicons, but its possible

but lets remember that the narator doesn't speak for the group... just one person who was there who presented a pretty spotty account of the incident.

Just cuz this lady is a douchebag and doesn't tell why that guy was arrested for seemingly doing nothing wrong, doesn't mean the rest of the protestors should be faulted.

She made the shitty video, they probably didn't.


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: johnm214]
    #8039468 - 02/18/08 06:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I like the video.
I don't think it's 'shitty' at all.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8041486 - 02/19/08 02:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I can't believe some of you are OK with the idea of the police filming and taking notes on the people at a peaceful political gathering. Then again, a third of you think the drug war is alright and I should be locked in a cage. So yeah, I guess I do believe it.

This planet sucks. If someone finds a giant comet headed smack dab toward us, I will buy a case of champaign and celebrate the end of a plague on the universe.

Where's my prozac?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Diploid]
    #8041824 - 02/19/08 07:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You can't think of any reason the police would should be allowed to film that?

If it is a peaceful protest, who gives a fuck if they film it?

C'mon Diploid, you aren't a conspiracy theorist. Do you really think they're using that film to put people who protest into some kind of national database to come and sweep them up when they declare martial law?

Really?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8041924 - 02/19/08 08:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I give a fuck because the next step is to open a file on people at political demonstrations that the police don't like. It's a slippery slope that leads toward McCarthyism part two.

Do you mind if the police search your car for no reason? I mean, you're just being peaceful in your car with nothing to hide, right? So why would you mind? How about your home?

It's astonishing to me that any lover of freedom would be alright with this. The police don't (or shouldn't) get paid to keep track of citizen's political affiliations. If it's not a crime, it's none of the police's business.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: This is What A Police State Looks Like [Re: Diploid]
    #8041956 - 02/19/08 08:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

We agree 100%, except that I don't believe and you have no proof that is what was going on.

If that is indeed why the police were filming that, it is bad.

But there are 50 other explanations for it, and I don't see why you choose the worst sounding one as the one that *must* be the case.

Do you really think this stuff is taking place?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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