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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
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Ron Paul & the Police
#8035067 - 02/17/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I thought I'd ask this since I just had an unexpected visit from the police as I was watching the candidate@Google video on youtube.
What exactly is Ron Pauls position on the governance of the police force and in particular the laws on drug prohibition? I see that he is widely respected around here so his views on drug law is sympathetic?
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
Edited by bradmassive (02/17/08 03:19 PM)
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035077 - 02/17/08 03:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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He is against all drug prohibition.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035078 - 02/17/08 03:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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he wants it to make a state/local issue instead of a federal issue..
all based around the constitutionality of our drug laws.
so if your state says booting black tar is ok, then you should be able to do it.. and people can live where they want to live..
he's not sympathetic towards drug use, but he doesn't believe it should be federally regulated as far as i understand it.
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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
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Loc: VA
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: he wants it to make a state/local issue instead of a federal issue..
all based around the constitutionality of our drug laws.
so if your state says booting black tar is ok, then you should be able to do it.. and people can live where they want to live..
he's not sympathetic towards drug use, but he doesn't believe it should be federally regulated as far as i understand it.
So if Texas says you can get life for possesion of MJ that is ok by him?
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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creekfreek
Certified phunologist



Registered: 01/26/08
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Loc: Right about here
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he also is a constitutionalist (i think i spelled it right) meaning that he wants to run the country the way the constitution says it should be run. So basicly the police shouldnt be knocking at your door unless they have a damn good reason.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035107 - 02/17/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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that's an invalid conclusion..
you have to realize that the public influences policy..
so i guess if the majority people in texas wanted/voted to raise the penalty for possession of marijuana i guess it could happen..
i dont see why any place would raise it though.. a lot of places are for decriminalization for personal use.
and his personal feelings dont matter.. as in the sense of whether or not he thinks it's right.. it's whether or not it's constitutional.
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bradmassive
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Loc: VA
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: creekfreek]
#8035118 - 02/17/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
creekfreek said: he also is a constitutionalist (i think i spelled it right) meaning that he wants to run the country the way the constitution says it should be run. So basicly the police shouldnt be knocking at your door unless they have a damn good reason.
They didn't have a damn good reason. Some report from back in December about MJ smoking outside my place. Bullshit basically.
But truly if Paul wants to dissolve government responsibility and give more power to individual states to pass laws I don't really see how much more benefit that's gonna be. It's all good saying all this 'life and liberty' jazz but at the end of the day who is gonna be running this country? Is it just gonna be a sate run free for all?
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035132 - 02/17/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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if u give the power back to the states then there will be more variability and some states will try to make examples of themselves by showing how legalization can work i think ron paul idea is great for instance california would prolly legalize weed weve had medicinal weed for 12 years and its been going gr8
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035140 - 02/17/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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helps democracy prevail..
each region is different.. the laws in nevada/vegas are going to be different than the laws in utah/salt lake city..
drug laws at least..
policy should represent popular belief/demand.. and that is different from state to state.
you need to research constitutionalists and true conservativism if you want to find out more..
essentially what you said is true.. smaller government with lots of power being transferred to the states = less bureaucracy
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bradmassive
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Posts: 866
Loc: VA
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: Coaster]
#8035145 - 02/17/08 03:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said: if u give the power back to the states then there will be more variability and some states will try to make examples of themselves by showing how legalization can work i think ron paul idea is great for instance california would prolly legalize weed weve had medicinal weed for 12 years and its been going gr8
I'm not sure I have so much faith in the states decisions. You do realize the governor of California is Arnie right? You know which way he voted right? He'd be out in a tank on the streets picking off the immigrants on his own private state funded crusade!
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035149 - 02/17/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i would support that.

FUCK illegal immigrants.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035150 - 02/17/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Paul is personally against drug prohibition. He's stated he would pardon federal drug offenders, this being unconstitutional (which it really isn't in cases of import/export or interstate shipments).
He's also stated he wants states to have the rights to make the call.
As to whether or not this is better, read the news.
While the vast majority of prosecutions are by the states, the reason many states can't effect change is the feds.
Doctors can't prescribe opiates to detox (well, really only maintnance, but a defacto prohibition on detox use for non-medically adicted users) someone unless they have federal permission.
States can't make possesion legal without some yahoo claiming that it violates federal law.
States can't provide regulated marijuana to recipients w/out beurocrats bitching that it is against the law.
State regs would be better imo. At worst, no change. Its not like the states are stopped from prosecuting or doing anything cuz of the feds at the moment- besides constitutional issues which aren't at issue.
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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: i would support that.

FUCK illegal immigrants.
  
EDIT: I would not endorse Arnie in this crusade
Edited by bradmassive (02/17/08 03:54 PM)
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: johnm214]
#8035172 - 02/17/08 03:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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very eloquent, my friend.
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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: johnm214]
#8035175 - 02/17/08 03:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Paul is personally against drug prohibition. He's stated he would pardon federal drug offenders, this being unconstitutional (which it really isn't in cases of import/export or interstate shipments).
He's also stated he wants states to have the rights to make the call.
As to whether or not this is better, read the news.
While the vast majority of prosecutions are by the states, the reason many states can't effect change is the feds.
Doctors can't prescribe opiates to detox (well, really only maintnance, but a defacto prohibition on detox use for non-medically adicted users) someone unless they have federal permission.
States can't make possesion legal without some yahoo claiming that it violates federal law.
States can't provide regulated marijuana to recipients w/out beurocrats bitching that it is against the law.
State regs would be better imo. At worst, no change. Its not like the states are stopped from prosecuting or doing anything cuz of the feds at the moment- besides constitutional issues which aren't at issue.
OK I get it, he emphasises freedom from federal control based on the constitution. Well I guess that's much better than most politicians.
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
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Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035189 - 02/17/08 03:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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bradmassive i have faith that the stats will do the right thing and as of now 50 states are drug free and now if we allowed them to make their own decision then out of those 50 there has to be at least 1 then if that 1 state works out then more will follow its lead thats the way i imagine it
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: Coaster]
#8035209 - 02/17/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i'd imagine cali would decriminalize bud first..
other drugs would be shit out of luck.
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
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ya cali is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ahead of the curve 12 years nigga, 12!!!! its all cuz of san fransico too lol thats were shulgin lives thats were its at
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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: Coaster]
#8035218 - 02/17/08 03:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said: bradmassive i have faith that the stats will do the right thing and as of now 50 states are drug free and now if we allowed them to make their own decision then out of those 50 there has to be at least 1 then if that 1 state works out then more will follow its lead thats the way i imagine it
WTF are you talking about. Drug free? Are you as crazy as Ron Paul himself!? Now if you had said all states should give 'free drugs' that would have been a totally different ball game.
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: bradmassive]
#8035820 - 02/17/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ehh, its more than just outright legalization, which is unlikely to happen many places at the moment, if at all.
Harm reduction, compassionate policies, and incremental withdrawal of the most severe regulations could start to be undertaken if the feds butted out.
When New Mexico wanted to provide pot to state-sanctioned users, folks in the government tried to refuse on the ground it would subject the state employees to federal prosecution.
DEA agents threaten landlords of state-legal dispensiaries with offenses and forfeiture.
Assholes who run some city are suing themselves to overturn a voter-approved measure regarding marijuana that legalizes certain uses not legal under the federal law (and the fuckups somehow think this conflicts, like the states must enforce federal law).
Why can't states have a drinking age of 18, so our veterans can imbide? Federal highway money (income redistribution) will be witheld if they don't have the age at 21 min. But this is somehow said to be the state's choice (even though their residents still get taxed to hell for the funds... the fed just redistributes this money)
Why can't doctors prescribe narcotics to whom they think may need them, or in appropriate amounts, even if the state medical board is okay with it, and his license is not in jeopordy? The DEA will revoke his registration and he then couldn't write for any controlled medication, a huge hit to his practice. If they really don't like him, they'll accuse him of drug dealing and throw him in jail... hence restrictive pain medication dispensation and unavailable opioid detox/maintnance for most people in this country.
The feds fuck things up.
Now removing this barrier wouldn't revert everything, but in the states that wanted to, they could have more sensible policies.
And think of one single measure a state wants to take at the moment in regards to drug prohibition that is more strict than the federal standard, and where they are prohibited from doing so because of the fed. standard. I can't think of one.
Now think of one measure a state would like to implement but can't, or can but cannot protect its residents from the feds when they swoop in, that's less strict than the federal rules... I can think of several, and some advocated where their might not be a consensus, but even if a consensus were formed, the states still couldn't implement the reform cuz of the fed. restrictions.
The above is the answer for me.
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Re: Ron Paul & the Police [Re: johnm214]
#8036092 - 02/17/08 11:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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they argue the drinkin age shuold be 21 becuase your still growing and ur brain hasnt fully matured so u do disproportionally more damage 2 ur body be4 the age of 21
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