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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8047220 - 02/20/08 01:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

NATO should have never intervened and the US certainly should have had no part in it. The interests of the US that it served where minute and did nothing to outweigh Serbia's authority.

At least this is good press and those people view America favorably for now.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: d33p]
    #8047269 - 02/20/08 01:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So you're one of those strict libertarians that can see no need to interfere in a country even when one population is slaughtering a nother one in the name of nationalism or religion?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8048010 - 02/20/08 04:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
So you're one of those strict libertarians that can see no need to interfere in a country even when one population is slaughtering a nother one in the name of nationalism or religion?




How about instead of throwing around moral ideas, you take a look at history? You have lost the respect of the world, and no longer have any right to call yourselves the champions of justice.

America, even with all your supposed good intentions, is a world-wide terrorist factory.


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InvisibleSlashOZ
:D
Male


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Minstrel]
    #8048129 - 02/20/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

yeah stopping genocide makes us the bad guys. :rolleyes:

we do some really fucked up shit but we also contribute 57% of the entire world's food aid.

invading Iraq was a bad move but you can be thankful we aren't napalming sections of Baghdad at any time we feel threatened. we are fighting a very limited war in Iraq compared to America's earlier conflicts since it became a world hegemon.

stopping the genocide in Serbia was a good action on our part.

watching as Saddam killed thousands of Kurds with our technology makes us look stupid. invading Iraq in 2003 to avenge the genocide makes us look like we rode the short bus to school. sitting by idly while thousands are slaughtered in Sudan makes us look uncaring. sitting by and watching Rwanda happen makes us the bad guys. stopping the genocide in Serbia and trying Milosevic serves justice imo. over the past 20 or so years history shows that when we stop a genocide we look good but when we sit idly by we look impotent/stupid and uncaring.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8049093 - 02/20/08 08:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

For just slaughter? Definitely not. For genocide? Maybe, but it still depends on other factors. Anyway, Serbia's actions were neither and it was not carried out in the name of nationalism or religion. However, those factors would have certainly influenced some people.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #8049398 - 02/20/08 09:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

again, you're assuming that when we have intervened it
has been primarily in an effort to 'do the right thing'.

I believe that the appearance of benevolence is just a
lucky side effect for actions that were primarily motivated
by political and financial gain.

we didn't invade iraq in 2003 to 'avenge the genocide'.

look at your list...if we really are the global caregivers
why do I count more cases of inaction than truly empathetic
and moral action?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: afoaf]
    #8049457 - 02/20/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I believe that the appearance of benevolence is just a
lucky side effect for actions that were primarily motivated
by political and financial gain.




QFT. Machiavelli said it best: It is important to appear as the lion while acting as a fox.


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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/20/08 09:41 PM)


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InvisibleSlashOZ
:D
Male


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8049835 - 02/20/08 10:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i believe my point was to show how when the U.S./world does nothing but sit around on the sidelines while a genocide happens we end up looking like fools a few years down the road.

to whoever said that the serbia bombing were just to gain politically or financially. uh, what was the gain there man? also why would the timing of bill's actions in the late 90's to make political/monitary gains just happen to be during the exact same time milosevic was killing thousands. it is sooooo coincidental. errr not. our actions there were primarily motivated in keeping the region stable and stopping ethinic cleansing.

to the fool who said serbia was not a genocide: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/26/news/hague.php

uh yeah the world court agrees it was a genocide so i mean what other proof do you need? btw if you need more then you are lying to yourself about what a genocide truelly is.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #8050828 - 02/21/08 08:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
i believe my point was to show how when the U.S./world does nothing but sit around on the sidelines while a genocide happens we end up looking like fools a few years down the road.

to whoever said that the serbia bombing were just to gain politically or financially. uh, what was the gain there man? also why would the timing of bill's actions in the late 90's to make political/monitary gains just happen to be during the exact same time milosevic was killing thousands. it is sooooo coincidental. errr not. our actions there were primarily motivated in keeping the region stable and stopping ethinic cleansing.

to the fool who said serbia was not a genocide: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/26/news/hague.php

uh yeah the world court agrees it was a genocide so i mean what other proof do you need? btw if you need more then you are lying to yourself about what a genocide truelly is.




Are you talking to me?
Quote:

For just slaughter? Definitely not. For genocide? Maybe, but it still depends on other factors. Anyway, Serbia's actions were neither




Quoted from your article
Quote:

The court found no convincing evidence that any Serbian leader or organ of the state of Serbia had the deliberate intent to "destroy in whole or in part" the Bosnian Muslim population, which is key to the definition of genocide.





Aside from this, trying to destroy a part of a population cannot be considered genocide. As well, motive of the aggressor plays a large role in determining whether a conflict is genocide. Genocide was not the motive. I disagree with the kangaroo court that there was a genocide.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8051793 - 02/21/08 01:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:05 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #8051834 - 02/21/08 01:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:05 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8051840 - 02/21/08 01:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Really? I'm still waiting for the people of those two nations to ask us to leave. I suppose you think the police are committing genocide every time they shoot a gun toting thug. Because murderers are people too.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8051860 - 02/21/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:05 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8051867 - 02/21/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

we need to get the fuck out of there now! why are we there? this is Europe's problem!

then we can start bombing ISRAEL so we can have a Palestinian state!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (02/21/08 01:27 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #8051887 - 02/21/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:06 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8051893 - 02/21/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"Operation Stained Dress”


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8051937 - 02/21/08 01:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

was used by the Clinton administration nonetheless.




Supposedly to draw attention from the Monica Lewinsky bullocks drama staged by the slime machine?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8051946 - 02/21/08 01:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So the question that is always out there for you is this.
"In your mind, should the US ever intervene anywhere?" I can't tell whether you're bitching that we do or bitching that we don't. I can tell that you are perennially bitching. I'll leave it to you to figure out what I think that makes you.

As to Kosovo, we seem to be in quite a minor role relative to NATO and the EU. Although I'm sure you can tell us how many innocent civilians were murdered by American troops there. Roughly.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8051997 - 02/21/08 01:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Nato killed more civilians then Milosevic....


NATO killed 500 civilians in its 78-day aerial bombardment of Yugoslavia

The charges against Milosevic involve the murder of 391 individuals.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/gowans16.html


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8052004 - 02/21/08 01:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

we seem to be in quite a minor role relative to NATO and the EU




depends on who's dropping the bombs and creating mayhem.

Not forgetting that the US is probably the most vocal member of NATO.


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