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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8038761 - 02/18/08 04:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
I know the history of the Western Hemisphere very well. I've never denied that the brutality & negative impacts of Spanish colonialists upon indigenous people were worse than that of the English colonialists (due primarily to it being practiced over larger & more populous areas), or that other European colonialist powers were also involved in its conquest. Spain has its own issues with Basque separatists today. If we were mostly Spanish citizens who paid taxes to the Spanish government, it would be a worthy topic of discussion & analogy regarding the situation in the Balkins, but since most of us are not, it is not.




omg, super comeback

:goose:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8038899 - 02/18/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What about the impressive history of indigenous brutality, murder and slavery. The list is endless. Admit it, you just hate whitey.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8039316 - 02/18/08 06:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Assuming, I am following your argument, in which you premise the relevance of historical wrongs of the USA, and compare that to current day revelations.....why did you compare the struggle of Turkey to current day Kosovo?

Are we not taxpayers there? Why is that comparison valid, while my reference to European colonialism is not?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039385 - 02/18/08 06:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What about the impressive history of indigenous brutality, murder and slavery. The list is endless. Admit it, you just hate whitey.




come off it, this has nothing to do w/ the topic (indigenous wrongs similar to those of foreigners)

are we buying into moral relativism now?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: johnm214]
    #8039464 - 02/18/08 06:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

E-P makes his entire argument about just about everything on that premise. Just thought I'd cram some of his own shit back at him.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039522 - 02/18/08 06:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:01 PM)

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #8039542 - 02/18/08 07:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:01 PM)

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039573 - 02/18/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:01 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8039587 - 02/18/08 07:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It was for the OOOOOOIIIIILLLLLL.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039591 - 02/18/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

And to keep the Red Man down, of course.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8039695 - 02/18/08 07:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:02 PM)

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8039802 - 02/18/08 07:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

why did you compare the struggle of Turkey to current day Kosovo?




To show that U.S. policy is motivated by its own military & economic self interests, not any of this nonsense about "freedom" & "human rights". Sure, countless others have done it throughout history & unfortunately will continue to do after the American empire collapses, but call it what it is instead of the nonsense that American politicians speak of.





How do you explain the billions upon billions of foreign aid dollars the USA gives to the world? I will cite Africa as a current example. What military and economic interests do we have there?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #8039887 - 02/18/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:03 PM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8040133 - 02/18/08 09:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


In March 1997, a joint poll by the Washington Post, Harvard University and the Kaiser Family Foundation asked Americans which area of federal expenditure they thought was the largest. Was it Social Security (which actually constituted about a quarter of the budget)? Medicare? Military spending? Sixty-four percent of respondents said it was foreign aid—when in reality foreign aid made up only about 1 percent of total outlays (Washington Post, 3/29/97)..





jesus fucking christ


how is this even possible?


Do these people not read the fucking newspaper or EVER watch news?

Umm... yeah...

the "social security crisis" only exists cuz we're giving too much money to Turkmenistan

This is really fucking unacceptable for a voting populace. I hope those people are the ones who don't vote...

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8040377 - 02/18/08 09:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So what most nations dont donate jack shit, America is quite generous on foreign aid, too the point where it eeks the libertarian in me.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8040480 - 02/18/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

When someone says, as one of the crazies did above, that the United States donates less "as a product of its GDP", that is Anti-American speak for "They give more than any other nation."


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8040628 - 02/18/08 10:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 02:04 PM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8040696 - 02/18/08 10:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't read the article. I was responding to your quote.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8041955 - 02/19/08 08:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Like I asked you before, what economic or imperialist motives does America have in Africa?


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-02-17-bush-tanzania_N.htm




In regards to aid, what about the American people? What about the citizens that make up this world imperialist power you love to decry?


http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

Private aid/donation has been through charity of individual people and organizations though this of course can be weighted to certain interests and areas. Nonetheless, it is interesting to note for example, per latest estimates, Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas—more than twice the US official foreign aid of $15 billion at that time:

International giving by US foundations: $1.5 billion per year
Charitable giving by US businesses: $2.8 billion annually
American NGOs: $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.
Religious overseas ministries: $3.4 billion, including health care, literacy training, relief and development.
US colleges scholarships to foreign students: $1.3 billion
Personal remittances from the US to developing countries: $18 billion in 2000

Source: Dr. Carol Adelman, Aid and Comfort, Tech Central Station, 21 August 2002.

While Adelman admits that “there are no complete figures for international private giving” she still says that Americans are “clearly the most generous on earth in public—but especially in private—giving”. Hence these numbers and claims may be taken with caution, but even then, these are high numbers.

Adelman, Director for The Center for Global Prosperity, from the Hudson Institute published its first Index of Global Philanthropy in 2006, which contained updated numbers from those stated above. The total of US private giving, since Adelman’s previous report, had increased to a massive $71 billion in 2004. Page 16 of their report breaks it down as follows:

International giving by US foundations: $3.4 billion
Charitable giving by US businesses: $4.9 billion
American NGOs: $9.7
Religious overseas ministries: $4.5
US colleges scholarships to foreign students: $1.7 billion
Personal remittances from the US to developing countries: $47 billion.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You like to look at the USA, in the most deplorable of lights as possible. The fact remains, that the USA gives the most total dollars of aid to countries, then any other country in the world. Sure, you can do the whole "proportional" or "percentage" argument. The fact still remains that no other country gives more total dollars then America, If memory serves me right, the economy of Sweden, doesn't have as much of an impact on the world, compared to ours.....so why the praise for their aid? Just because its tabulated and calcualted on their GNI?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Well, They Love Us In Kosovo... [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #8041957 - 02/19/08 09:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Good Call.

:thumbup:


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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