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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Having Faith is for the weak-minded
#8034451 - 02/17/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now I am not talking about ordinary faith such as that the sun will rise tomorrow or that no one will run the red stop light.
Nor am I talking about, oh say, following a fitness program wherein you have faith that if followed, you WILL get results.
I am talking about faith as it is applied to religious and spiritual ideas.
Basically when one has R/S faith, it means they adopted an idea and will hold onto it like a pitbull to someone's pant cuffs no matter what new ideas or facts are presented. One encounters this form of blind stubborness here regularly.
It is not a strength at all, but a sign of weakness and unchangability. It is stagnation and intellectual death.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


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I think faith is necessary at certain phases in life, to keep one motivated to make progress as a being. Not faith in God or the Church, just faith that existence is worth the suffering. When one becomes more comfortable with groundlessness, maybe faith can be abandoned.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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backfromthedead
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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Lion]
#8034578 - 02/17/08 12:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think having faith sets you up for special experiences somehow.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
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i have faith that you will grow in wisdom and intelligence, OC.
does this make me weak-minded?
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Lion]
#8034588 - 02/17/08 12:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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this idea is weak IMO... and is eroding itself in a smelly bath of ego-centrism and close-mindedness.
I do get where you're coming from; however, I think that this is backwards thinking...
To me having faith is like being in tune with the rich and colourful power of All-That-Is. We cannot strattle this power, but we can be a part of it, and flow... hmmm... how good it feels to believe!
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Ginseng1]
#8034685 - 02/17/08 01:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Note to audience: Let's see if we can get a straight answer here.
The Heaven's Gate followers that believed their dead bodies would transport to the mothership hiding behind the comet were following their 'faith'.
A. This was a positive thing that we should all try to emulate.
B. This was totally fucking retarded.
You may choose only one.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Ginseng1]
#8034690 - 02/17/08 01:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
this idea is weak IMO... and is eroding itself in a smelly bath of ego-centrism and close-mindedness.
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



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It might have been totally retarded. Who knows? Maybe they have achieved their goals in the after life?
But what the hell does that have to do with me or anybody else that has faith? The heaven's gate faith may have been misguided, but that does not define me, or anybody else that has faith.
What about all these schools shooting in the U.S? Their belief systems have lead to the deaths of innocent people and themselves.
So why must you you generalize everything?
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Note to audience: Let's see if we can get a straight answer here.
The Heaven's Gate followers that believed their dead bodies would transport to the mothership hiding behind the comet were following their 'faith'.
A. This was a positive thing that we should all try to emulate.
B. This was totally fucking retarded.
You may choose only one.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. practiced nonviolence, despited the violent tactics of many of his opponents, because he had faith in the essential goodness of human nature; he had faith that his efforts would yield positive progress.
A. This was a positive thing that we should all try to emulate.
B. This was totally fucking retarded.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



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Leon, excellent argument ! Orgone, sid they really believe their 'bodies' would leave the planet ? Else, I would have to look it up if their way would be an adequate way to liberate one's soul in a positive or constructive way into another 'realm'. Of course I doubt this. As far as I know, there is no (ancient) hint that suicide liberates the soul in a positive way. All hints point the other way.
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Raven0us
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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Lion]
#8034765 - 02/17/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Faith can lead to a complete lack of logic and common sense. In this case it seems to be a very bad thing. Faith can also lead to a hope of a better future, life, etc... in this case it seems to be a very good thing.
It is what it is, Sort of like anything in life can be used for good or bad.
-------------------- ~Raven0us
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Xeny


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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Raven0us]
#8034863 - 02/17/08 02:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Faith for me is nothing more then mere existance, the belief you're alive is enough to set off the chainreactions, even rereactions, to commence on life. The part that faith plays is nothing more then thinking '0' or '1'. It is the choice you make, to live or to die? In your case, to believe or not to believe. Now don't go thinking you'll die if you dont believe in whatso ever. I'll guess you'll know when your death has arrived upon your brilliant soul.
That's my opinion
-------------------- Ik hou van je While you're still sleeping the saints are still weepin' cause things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born. -Scatman John
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Xeny]
#8035333 - 02/17/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think faith is good when you don't let it convince you of stupid things. For example, I have faith that the universe is fundamentally good. This may change in my lifetime, I don't know, but having faith in a general goodness makes life sunnier and enables me to smile on rather than fear the unknown.
I don't have SUCH faith in the goodness of the universe that I'd jump off a skyscraper believing I'd be cushioned and cradled by fluffy clouds. This is because I'm a somewhat rational human being. Heaven's Gate was not populated by people like you and me.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Now I am not talking about ordinary faith such as that the sun will rise tomorrow or that no one will run the red stop light.
Nor am I talking about, oh say, following a fitness program wherein you have faith that if followed, you WILL get results.
I am talking about faith as it is applied to religious and spiritual ideas.
Basically when one has R/S faith, it means they adopted an idea and will hold onto it like a pitbull to someone's pant cuffs no matter what new ideas or facts are presented. One encounters this form of blind stubborness here regularly.
It is not a strength at all, but a sign of weakness and unchangability. It is stagnation and intellectual death.
agree but being weakminded is a natural condition for humanity so at times we all need a little faith.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Lion]
#8035492 - 02/17/08 09:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your example makes my point. Faith by itself is meaningless. It is the OBJECT of faith and the MEANS OF ARRIVING AT SUCH FAITH that has import.
MLK used logic in that he recognized that violence begets violence. He understood that the path to change lie elsewhere.
HG members did not use logic at all. There was no basis that suicide would lead to a higher plane of existence alongside our alien brothers.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Lion]
#8035499 - 02/17/08 09:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. practiced nonviolence, despited the violent tactics of many of his opponents, because he had faith in the essential goodness of human nature; he had faith that his efforts would yield positive progress.
I think King was wrong. Humans aren't essentially good or bad but both. It's natures way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Icelander]
#8035520 - 02/17/08 09:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have faith that you are weak-minded.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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I just reported you for flaming.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Having Faith is for the weak-minded [Re: Icelander]
#8035684 - 02/17/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The sooner I get banned, the sooner I can get a life.
Thank you for helping me over my addiction.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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But who can help me? Will no loving mod ban the Iceman?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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