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SneezingPenis
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I despise the term "survivor"
#8032611 - 02/16/08 08:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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when used for things like cancer.
"oh, you didnt know? she is a cancer survivor".
they always make speeches about how strong they were to overcome it... beyond laying there for operations and chemo, what did you do? not kill yourself? it also seems like it is saying you are better than all those other fucks out there that died from it.
I have decided that I am going to refer to myself as a ________ survivor for every tiny scratch I get. I am a thorn survivor. I am a Flu survivor. I am a root canal survivor. I am a rip tide survivor.
if you are alive... arent you a survivor? I survived breakfast this morning.
now, I will give credit to things like "Holocaust Survivor"... because that was some intense shit. you really survived. I bet holocaust survivors would have preferred the cushy cancer ward over hiding neck deep in feces any day.
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Plok
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8032628 - 02/16/08 08:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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heh...
cancer is some "intense shit" too. I'd like to see how "cushy" you think cancer is when you're receiving chemotherapy, or staring death in the face.
I despise your avatar.
-------------------- Just say NO to the War on Drugs.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Plok]
#8032635 - 02/16/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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my avatar is a Fist survivor. it was some intense shit that happened there.
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Kombat Frank
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8032661 - 02/16/08 08:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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question
have you ever had cancer or had to go through chemo or anything of the sort??
have you ever even met anyone going through something like that?
almost knowing your going to die, having to go through all those surgies and basically live in a hospital un able to do things you actually want to do. And while you CANT do those thins you want to do, you have to sit and think about how you might die, therefore not being able to EVER do those things again
i understand what you are saying, buuut, honestly they can call themselves whatever they want, it does not effect me at all
--------------------
ego tripping at the gates of hell
Edited by Kombat Frank (02/16/08 08:58 PM)
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SneezingPenis
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Kombat Frank]
#8032678 - 02/16/08 08:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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that reminds me.... another thing I despise is when people think you cant despise something since you havent experienced it firsthand.
have you ever eaten a turd? have you ever squished it through your teeth? then how can you be disgusted at 2girls1cup?
i had two grandparents die from cancer... and they never felt the need to tell people they were survivors and make speeches about how through personal hardships with cancer they are now fit to make hallmark commercials.
Im really starting to cheer for cancer so more "survivors" arent around.
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Redstorm
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8032683 - 02/16/08 08:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
i had two grandparents die from cancer... and they never felt the need to tell people they were survivors
Well of course they wouldn't say that, would they?
I, myself, am a Houston rush-hour traffic survivor (daily).
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Kombat Frank
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8032689 - 02/16/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: that reminds me.... another thing I despise is when people think you cant despise something since you havent experienced it firsthand.
have you ever eaten a turd? have you ever squished it through your teeth? then how can you be disgusted at 2girls1cup?
i had two grandparents die from cancer... and they never felt the need to tell people they were survivors and make speeches about how through personal hardships with cancer they are now fit to make hallmark commercials.
Im really starting to cheer for cancer so more "survivors" arent around.
good point
but how can you talk about how people feel when they go through some experience when you havnt gone through it yourself, so you dont actually know how it feels.
comparing that to eating shit is wild, 2 COMPLETELY different things
sorry about your grandparents, but wishing death upon anyone is a no no for me
like biggie said "that shit will come back on you"
--------------------
ego tripping at the gates of hell
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SneezingPenis
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Kombat Frank]
#8032703 - 02/16/08 09:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guarantee you if I get cancer and beat it I wont be acting like I overcame great adversity. I cant think of any other illness where people talk about how they are survivors the way cancer people do.
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demiu5
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8032810 - 02/16/08 09:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: when used for things like cancer.
"oh, you didnt know? she is a cancer survivor".
they always make speeches about how strong they were to overcome it... beyond laying there for operations and chemo, what did you do? not kill yourself? it also seems like it is saying you are better than all those other fucks out there that died from it.
I have decided that I am going to refer to myself as a ________ survivor for every tiny scratch I get. I am a thorn survivor. I am a Flu survivor. I am a root canal survivor. I am a rip tide survivor.
if you are alive... arent you a survivor? I survived breakfast this morning.
now, I will give credit to things like "Holocaust Survivor"... because that was some intense shit. you really survived. I bet holocaust survivors would have preferred the cushy cancer ward over hiding neck deep in feces any day.
people say these things because we are above/outside of nature, remember? we are man, the mighty human, not some mere animal.
kind of like all the recent tornado coverage (even if you don't watch the news, i doubt you didn't hear about it). these people lived (or didn't) through an event that has occurred for millions of years and has taken millions of lives (plant and animal)
Quote:
if you are alive... arent you a survivor?
yep. some people, i guess, feel the need to reinforce their insecurities about death/life in this manner
Quote:
Kombat Frank said: like biggie said "that shit will come back on you"
please, no, tell me you didn't actually type that
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: demiu5]
#8033260 - 02/17/08 12:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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To survive cancer often takes a victory of the will, or spirit. Cancer is known for killing those who are unenthusiastic for life while sparing those who cling to it. There are exceptions on both sides, of course, but it is a dire oversimplification to say that recovery from cancer depends only on the quality of treatment available. Survival goes deeper than having a doctor fix you up.
Besides which, cancer treatment is pretty fucking hellish sometimes. I understand your original point, but I disagree with it pretty heartily.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (02/17/08 12:04 AM)
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mushbaby
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I think if I was injected with toxic substances and lived through it I would call myself a survivor.
If I was exposed to radical amounts of radiation and not only lived but became healthier, I'd brag about it to everyone too.
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Veritas
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Quote:
Cancer is known for killing those who are unenthusiastic for life while sparing those who cling to it.
Is it really? According to whom?
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MushroomTrip
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Veritas]
#8034049 - 02/17/08 09:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fluffy pink stories
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Veritas
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8034053 - 02/17/08 09:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, I would expect that there would be some difference in survival rates between those who want to live enough to radically change their lifestyle after a diagnosis of cancer, and those who passively undergo surgery & chemo without making other changes. But this is cannot be oversimplified as being about "lack of enthusiasm" vs. "clinging to life."
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MushroomTrip
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Veritas]
#8034107 - 02/17/08 09:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes this is different and makes sense. But I heard this theory before. Many people are inclined to believe in it because it sounds convenient. When we're sick we already feel vulnerable, and if the environment is constructed in such a way to facilitate believing in this, we will. Lack of instruction, fear, relatives and friends who think they help by telling the ill that they can "make it" solely by believing... these can have a huge impact on someone in that condition.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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deranger
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8034195 - 02/17/08 10:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: I have decided that I am going to refer to myself as a ________ survivor for every tiny scratch I get. I am a thorn survivor. I am a Flu survivor. I am a root canal survivor. I am a rip tide survivor.
don't forget your suit.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: deranger]
#8035044 - 02/17/08 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's a struggle. That's all I'm saying. This cannot be denied.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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SneezingPenis
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well everything is a struggle.
another thing is that these survivors never tell you what kind of cancer they had. it reminds me of that curb your enthusiasm episode where the rabbi gets angry at Larry for not being more sympathetic about his brother that died on 9/11... then it comes to light that he wasnt even in the WTC towers, he died of something entirely unrelated just on the same day.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8035059 - 02/17/08 03:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who exactly are all "these survivors"? My experiences don't really vibe with yours.
I'll agree that somebody who had some mild form of skin cancer and quickly had it removed without incident does not qualify as a "survivor," though I suppose they may use the term. I don't know anyone like that, though. My mom had something like that once and she certainly doesn't call herself a cancer survivor.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (02/17/08 03:12 PM)
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SneezingPenis
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I guess I have more exposure to it since I run sound for so many benefits. and I can understand someone getting up and giving a survivor speech at a cancer benefit, but im not kidding, these people will get up and do speeches at habitat for humanity benefits.
most of these people end up being killed by cancer anyway, because it never fully went away.... so it is a misnomer on that point.
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Kombat Frank
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8035358 - 02/17/08 08:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: I guess I have more exposure to it since I run sound for so many benefits. and I can understand someone getting up and giving a survivor speech at a cancer benefit, but im not kidding, these people will get up and do speeches at habitat for humanity benefits.
most of these people end up being killed by cancer anyway, because it never fully went away.... so it is a misnomer on that point.
i deff. agree with you on that...people "overdoing" it with their cancer survival stories
it just sounds to me like you have had to many run ins with too many dip shits
oh wells
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ego tripping at the gates of hell
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OrgoneConclusion
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Quote:
Cancer is known for killing those who are unenthusiastic for life while sparing those who cling to it.
Not true according to large-scale controlled statistical medical reports. Do you just fabricate stuff to back your position?
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Sophistic Radiance
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I base my statements on my personal experiences, generally. Stories I've heard provide those experiences here. Individual stories obviously have no empirical strength. Maybe the stories I've heard were just the ones that stood out? Those are the ones that usually get told, after all.
Anyway, no need to make it personal. If you can prove me wrong then do so. I'd like to see those studies.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (02/17/08 09:44 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8035640 - 02/17/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did a similar thread as this a few years back. I was commenting on how the media ALWAYS speaks of the good 'fight'.
"Reagan bravely fought Alzheimer's disease right up until the end."
Not sure how one puts up the good fight. By controlling your drooling? By trying to remember?
FYI, I am NOT mocking any one who has or whose family has such a disease. Am only saying that one has very little control in such a situation.
I am currently 'fighting' a nasty-ass flu (and losing so far). What is my battle plan? I sleep most of the day and eat lots of oranges. Can you feel my bravery?
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Kombat Frank
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I did a similar thread as this a few years back. I was commenting on how the media ALWAYS speaks of the good 'fight'.
"Reagan bravely fought Alzheimer's disease right up until the end."
Not sure how one puts up the good fight. By controlling your drooling? By trying to remember?
FYI, I am NOT mocking any one who has or whose family has such a disease. Am only saying that one has very little control in such a situation.
I am currently 'fighting' a nasty-ass flu (and losing so far). What is my battle plan? I sleep most of the day and eat lots of oranges. Can you feel my bravery?
its the inside of your body thats doing all the work and fighting
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ego tripping at the gates of hell
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MushroomTrip
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Kombat Frank]
#8036988 - 02/18/08 08:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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How does this answer his questions?
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: Kombat Frank]
#8038135 - 02/18/08 01:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
its the inside of your body thats doing all the work and fighting
Of course. As everyone's body does the same as best it can, it is not valiant nor brave; it just is. No commendations nor medals are to be handed out.
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Sophistic Radiance
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...I'd STILL like to see those reports.
Regardless, I think YawningAnus's real problem isn't with cancer survivors but with smallminded people who use a brush with cancer to prop up their egos.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (02/18/08 02:04 PM)
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MushroomTrip
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No. YOU have to present those reports which say that those with a positive attitude have more chances of surviving.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
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I have covered this many times before with links. You made the erroneous claim and I am supposed to do the research for you and for every other poster time and time again?
No! That is not how it works. It is up to you to back up your position.
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Sophistic Radiance
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-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8038242 - 02/18/08 02:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you, MT. It is so refreshing to see that someone else understands how the game is played.
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Sophistic Radiance
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I'm not concerned with winning "the game," I am concerned with learning.
You are not making it easy.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
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I have been spoon-feeding posters here for eight years. There is a search function here and are at least 3-5 threads that contain relevant information. I will not live long enough to keep re-presenting the information over and over again to every new poster. That is why the archives exist.
Then there is the Google search engine and the Yahoo search engine and ...
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Sophistic Radiance
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Should be easy, given the paucity of results returned for "cancer survival."
Oh wait.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
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You're right. I am the only one with the mental capacity to do the research.
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Sophistic Radiance
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I just spent five minutes going through search results and found only one that was remotely pertinent: a post entitled "Study Says No Power of Will over Death." Sounds promising right?
This is an article (posted here, a while ago) stating that Christmas does not fight cancer.
I'm already willing to believe that your argument is correct, but you really just don't want to work with me here.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (02/18/08 02:49 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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I tried 'positive thinking and cancer survival' on Yahoo and the first 10 reports are all what you are looking for. I am certain you will get similar results for 'postive thinking and heart attacks'.
--------------------
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Sophistic Radiance
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Thank you. This is what I am looking for and it affirms your position.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
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If you come to realise that I am always right, it will save a lot of time. Arrogant, but true.
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Sophistic Radiance
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-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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igwna
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8038846 - 02/18/08 04:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: that reminds me.... another thing I despise is when people think you cant despise something since you havent experienced it firsthand.
have you ever eaten a turd? have you ever squished it through your teeth? then how can you be disgusted at 2girls1cup?
i had two grandparents die from cancer... and they never felt the need to tell people they were survivors and make speeches about how through personal hardships with cancer they are now fit to make hallmark commercials.
Im really starting to cheer for cancer so more "survivors" arent around.
i don't want to sound like a dick.. but if they both died from cancer, then they didnt survive it.
that could be why they didn't preach about being a survivor.
i kind of agree with you. but i kind of don't. to survive cancer, has got to be intense.. and an extremely great thing for someone with cancer.
holocaust victims DEFINITALLY deserve the title of survivor, as you said.. i think its a great term for someone who actually survived something life threatening, otherwise the term is worthless.
if thats what you're trying to say, i don't really know.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: igwna]
#8038876 - 02/18/08 04:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Surviving hardship or illness as a matter of luck or fate is nothing commendable.
Surviving hardship or illness based on resourcefulness, discipline and strength is something else altogether.
Most (declared) terminal patients that survive belong in the first category.
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igwna
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okay, now i see where he's coming from. thank you for clearing that up orgone.
i can kind of agree.
but still surviving something life threatening through LUCK has still got to FEEL amazing.
its not like you're bragging about getting through a day or something, you're bragging about surviving a LIFE THREATENING illness..
i think thats intense enough to say you're a survivor. i mean.. you survived something that KILLS people. i think the original poster, yawninganus was it? just doesnt like these stupid ass peolpe getting well and start insisting it was fate or god or some stupid bullshit nonsense. (edit: which i can totally agree with)
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
Edited by igwna (02/18/08 05:02 PM)
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rexmundi
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: igwna]
#8038983 - 02/18/08 05:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have a few thoughts on this subject. I too have run across it plenty. While I do think getting cancer, or having a heart attack and "surviving" the ordeal would be significant, people have a tendency to turn themselves into heroes over it. I mean, if I got cancer and beat it, I'd be fuckin' pumped, and it would probably have a significant impact on my life. Like I got a second chance you know? Those people do have to look death in the face.
That said, I do get annoyed with the rhetoric around it. Like someone said earlier, if they find some skin cancer and take it off right away, not such an ordeal. Even the big stuff doesn't really make you a hero. Plus there's all that stupid language about the "will to live" and "being strong". I'm sure that you do need to face some stuff, but to me it inherently implies that those who don't live weren't strong, or didn't want to live. That's bullshit.
And to compare them to holocaust survivors is most definitely a false analogy. In sooo many ways that I can't even be bothered to get into them.
As far as the will to live debate goes, I sincerely doubt that it is ever the determining factor as to whether one "survives" or not, but I have heard that people with strong family ties or spiritual beliefs (i.e. strong support systems) tend to do better throughout the whole process. "Better" being a fairly subjective word.
</rant>
-------------------- "I Love Democracy" -Emporer Palpatine Fuck the system.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: rexmundi]
#8038997 - 02/18/08 05:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Plus there's all that stupid language about the "will to live" and "being strong". I'm sure that you do need to face some stuff, but to me it inherently implies that those who don't live weren't strong, or didn't want to live. That's bullshit.
Exactly. I had a niece that 'fought the good fight' against leukemia. She was a brave little trooper and died a horrible death at age nine.
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igwna
The Cap'n
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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hey, i'm sorry for you loss man.
a lot of fucked up things take a lot of good people.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Thin White Duke
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 51,530
Loc:
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8039551 - 02/18/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's nearly as bad as people who get called brave for the exact same things.
'Her parents died, she's so brave' etc etc.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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If nothing else, surviving terminal cancer suggests good pre-cancer lifestyle choices. As somebody who subsists on fast food and never exercises, I commend that.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: I despise the term "survivor" [Re: igwna]
#8042555 - 02/19/08 11:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
skcorrelyt said:
Quote:
YawningAnus said: that reminds me.... another thing I despise is when people think you cant despise something since you havent experienced it firsthand.
have you ever eaten a turd? have you ever squished it through your teeth? then how can you be disgusted at 2girls1cup?
i had two grandparents die from cancer... and they never felt the need to tell people they were survivors and make speeches about how through personal hardships with cancer they are now fit to make hallmark commercials.
Im really starting to cheer for cancer so more "survivors" arent around.
i don't want to sound like a dick.. but if they both died from cancer, then they didnt survive it.
that could be why they didn't preach about being a survivor.
well my grandmother had breast cancer for 13 years, which they thought after they cut off her tits that it was gone. so there was a time where she could have proudly sprinted the block a la steve prefontaine shouting "I beat Cancer". and that was in the 80's when no one was beating cancer.
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