Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Muscaria

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Entheogenic Evolution?
    #8030295 - 02/16/08 07:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you believe entheogens have played a big role in our evoltion, or will play a big role?

Or both?

its obvious they can give genuine mystic divine experience, yet most after this experience don't seem to even want to integrate this experience into theyre lives. They would still rather be egotistical cynical beings.

I feel they are here to help us on our journey yet most humans are so egotistical they refute help regardless of where it comes from.

Basically they cant help us if we arent willing to help ourselves.

That my view onit, if we open our minds (which seems the whole point of psychedelics) then we can realise great truth, yet if we bring cynical attitudesd into the experience it is unpure.

As at the end of the day as humans all there is is faith, as we can never proove or describe the divine, only experience it and have faith.


:peace:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030303 - 02/16/08 07:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Both.
The history of entheogen usage throughout time is well documented, imo.
The experience will only be given more attention in the future.


--------------------


Edited by backfromthedead (02/16/08 02:50 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8030307 - 02/16/08 07:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I sure hope so because humans are so egotistical its like we need a substance that forces us to see truth.

Sure religeon can make you realise these truths but religeon definatley seems on the way out, which in a way is good because only you can liberate yourself not words from others or theorys.

I still struggle with this, as upon realisation of great truth you want everyone to know it, yet trying to show others just makes them even more defensive :frown:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030319 - 02/16/08 07:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:werd:
I wish somehow you could put the mushrooms where they belong, in the church.  Swap out the cracker and wine.
I agree.  Truth is a challenging thing in the age of disinformation.
What is the Truth if this is indeed the age of disinformation??


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8030340 - 02/16/08 07:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think the truth can only come form within, and shrooms/entheogens help you look within.

LOOOL swap out the cracker and wine, that would make for an awesome sermon :smile:

Catholicism has dug its own grave by separating man and god, its such a shame because its fundamental values are so great, as are the fundamentals of all religeons. I say ALL very loosely :smile:


Edited by Chronic7 (02/16/08 07:48 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030581 - 02/16/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

its obvious they can give genuine mystic divine experience,

Obviously.:rofl2::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030596 - 02/16/08 09:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I feel sorry for you that that amuses you so much.

tell me icelander, why do you take shrooms?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030609 - 02/16/08 09:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I feel sorry for you that that amuses you so much.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

why do you take shrooms?

The same reason I hike in the desert.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030621 - 02/16/08 09:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
its obvious they can give genuine mystic divine experience,

Obviously.:rofl2::monkeydance:




"HOPKINS SCIENTISTS SHOW HALLUCINOGEN IN MUSHROOMS CREATES UNIVERSAL “MYSTICAL” EXPERIENCE
Rigorous study hailed as landmark

Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in “sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries."

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

:idea:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8030638 - 02/16/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries."


Yeah, so what? I don't think much of the guys who claim the spontaneous "spiritual" experience either.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030640 - 02/16/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I feel sorry for you that that amuses you so much.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

why do you take shrooms?

The same reason I hike in the desert.




To be one with nature?

Seriously man i want to understand your mindset, to laugh at someones beliefs the way you do psychologically says to me your a being who lives in fear of others beleifs.

Youve seemed like an intelligent person in the past...

And yes your brain IS god, as is everything


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030649 - 02/16/08 09:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I laugh at you and not your beliefs. This is a debate forum unlike the mystery forum and yet you treat it the same. You put up your subjective yada and then back it up with what? You back it up by saying you have faith. Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?

I take shrooms and hike in the desert for ADVENTURE.  I don't know if there is anything else going on or not but I surely am not going to take it on faith after I have seem what the faithful are really all about.:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030677 - 02/16/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I laugh at you and not your beliefs. This is a debate forum unlike the mystery forum and yet you treat it the same. You put up your subjective yada and then back it up with what? You back it up by saying you have faith. Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?

I take shrooms and hike in the desert for ADVENTURE.  I don't know if there is anything else going on or not but I surely am not going to take it on faith after I have seem what the faithful are really all about.:crazy2:




You say you laugh at me, not my beliefs, yet all you know of me is my beliefs.

I agree i got the forums mixed up, hands up, my bad, i just see spirituality then post here, i only realised 2day that its basically "post spiritual stuff here to get hotly flamed for it" which you take great pleasure in doing (seeing as you get so much amusement from it) which is 100% totally fine, go get yours pal, stand up for what you beleive in as i do, theres another forum for this, i didn't realise, and in my thousand or so post this was ignorant of me. I admit that.

You just seem very particular towards people who have spiritual faith. Which is faith through experience, not blind faith!

And you dont seem to come up with a precise argument against it, you just roll on your back and laugh your face of.

I didnt realise thats how philosophers debate.


Whatever tickles you...


Edited by Chronic7 (02/16/08 10:21 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030689 - 02/16/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?

no need to whine about it, if it really is this annoying the ignore button works well.

the mysticism forum isn't as populated and the replies he gets here are probably more in his interest. also the topic of this thread has some concepts that are of spiritual nature, so it does fit.

laughing in someones face and ridiculing their views doesn't really seem like a positive and constructive form of debate, but whatever floats your boat dude.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030728 - 02/16/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I laugh at you and not your beliefs. This is a debate forum unlike the mystery forum and yet you treat it the same. You put up your subjective yada and then back it up with what? You back it up by saying you have faith. Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?

I take shrooms and hike in the desert for ADVENTURE.  I don't know if there is anything else going on or not but I surely am not going to take it on faith after I have seem what the faithful are really all about.:crazy2:




You say you laugh at me, not my beliefs, yet all you know of me is my beliefs.

I agree i got the forums mixed up, hands up, my bad, i just see spirituality then post here, i only realized 2day that its basically "post spiritual stuff here to get hotly flamed for it" which you take great pleasure in doing (seeing as you get so much amusement from it) which is 100% totally fine, go get yours pal, stand up for what you believe in as i do, there's another forum for this, i didn't realize, and in my thousand or so post this was ignorant of me. I admit that.

You just seem very particular towards people who have spiritual faith. Which is faith through experience, not blind faith!

And you dont seem to come up with a precise argument against it, you just roll on your back and laugh your face of.

I didnt realise thats how philosophers debate.


Whatever tickles you...




Nice try but I don't often flame anyone.  Part of what I do here is to steer folk like yourself to the correct forum. If that takes a little tough love then so be it.:mrt::lol:

I don't have a problem with folk who have any spiritual belief until they come on like they know for sure that it is the truth. There is so much evidence that this is an ego driven stance that it isn't funny. Yet when you challenge these folk and they get defensive they will swear up and down that they don't have an ego problem. This is just plain dishonest or ignorant IMO and I get tired of it because there is so much of it to hack through to get into a real debate using logic:whoa: and some type of proofs to the best of our ability.

Often people take a large or small dose of shrooms have an experience that they cannot catalog in their normal awareness and so then conclude that it cannot be other than a divine cosmic connection to the godhead and much more special than fetching fuel and carrying water. I once also had that belief. I got over it when I noticed that people generally don't change that much after it's all over with. I don't deny it can be a powerful catalyst for change but what I will argue is whether it is anymore divine than a car wreck.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: deranger]
    #8030740 - 02/16/08 10:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

but whatever floats your boat dude.


Gee thanks.:heart:

Have you ever considered that if these folk go over to the Mystery forum then it won't be under populated? This would be good for everyone don't you think?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030744 - 02/16/08 10:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ok i see your point of view now and i don't feel like im being mocked :smile:

I agree alot of it is still ego based an always will be in human form, but you cant dismiss the possibility these are genuine experiences.

Times ive felt what i believed is the pure truth and imposed this on others,  i accept could possibly be ego based, (a need for a definitive answer) as long as you realise that what makes you decide this isnt a pure truth can also be your ego.

Now this is what i call a philosophical spiritual debate :smile:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030761 - 02/16/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'...conclude that it cannot be other than a divine cosmic connection to the godhead and much more special than fetching fuel and carrying water.'

Important experience none the less for some.
What makes something divine??


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030763 - 02/16/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
Ok i see your point of view now and i don't feel like im being mocked :smile:

I agree alot of it is still ego based an always will be in human form, but you cant dismiss the possibility these are genuine experiences.

Times ive felt what i believed is the pure truth and imposed this on others,  i accept could possibly be ego based, (a need for a definitive answer) as long as you realise that what makes you decide this isnt a pure truth can also be your ego.




Good I'm glad we understand each other. I'm sure you're a decent psychonaut.  I don't dismiss the possibility of these being genuine cosmic experiences. In a way I believe they are in fact but that is my subjective personal belief and I'm sure their is a lot of wish fulfillment involved in believing it.  I just like the honest and IMO humble approach that says, IMO or I believe this but it's very subjective. Then we can challenge it and see what happens. Maybe we can even find a little evidence to support it if we do more than just believe but also research.

Anyway, I'm fine with you posting here but I will challenge anything that I think doesn't fit and you can do the same with me. It's not like I don't ever go off half cocked.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030774 - 02/16/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'I don't have a problem with folk who have any spiritual belief until they come on like they know for sure that it is the truth.'

Entheogens work, this is the truth.
Finding God or spirit or spirituality is a great adventure.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8030777 - 02/16/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'...conclude that it cannot be other than a divine cosmic connection to the godhead and much more special than fetching fuel and carrying water.'

Important experience none the less for some.
What makes something divine??




Of course it's important. So is fetching fuel and water. Both fulfill human needs. My point being that they are really not at all different most likely and we at least have some evidence to back up all that fuel and water carrying.:lol: To put one on a pedestal is most likely incorrect from the research we see on brain function. It's all one amazing chaotic mess IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8030781 - 02/16/08 10:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'I don't have a problem with folk who have any spiritual belief until they come on like they know for sure that it is the truth.'

Entheogens work, this is the truth.
Finding God or spirit or spirituality is a great adventure.




It may be a great adventure for you but that doesn't make it any more than your imagination.

So tell me how entheognes "work"? What does that mean?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030785 - 02/16/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They wake up early, get dressed and go to work :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030789 - 02/16/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Evidence??
Christ!!
How much more do we need to convince people that this experience might be just as important as fuel and water??


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030809 - 02/16/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Maybe we can even find a little evidence to support it if we do more than just believe but also research.






That would be fantastic, i hope the swiss are looking into this as we speak, but still i think all that will be left is experience and faith, i dont think any scientific report can proove what we cant even theorize in words!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8030819 - 02/16/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
Evidence??
Christ!!
How much more do we need to convince people that this experience might be just as important as fuel and water??




Never said it wasn't as important, just said it wasn't more important. Plus there's no real proof that it is more important.

So how much more do you need? Lots because there isn't much so far.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030870 - 02/16/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
but whatever floats your boat dude.


Gee thanks.:heart:

Have you ever considered that if these folk go over to the Mystery forum then it won't be under populated? This would be good for everyone don't you think?




you are not everyone, although it may appear that way at times.  some people don't like being around a place that has such bad stigma :thumbdown: it won't happen so easily.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030880 - 02/16/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think they are both as important as each other, as essentially they are the same thing.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: deranger]
    #8030889 - 02/16/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It has a bad rep? Why? It's designed for those who just want to throw out their personal beliefs without challenge. There's nothing wrong with that IMO. It just doesn't belong here. That forum was created because folk didn't like being challenged here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8030890 - 02/16/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'I don't have a problem with folk who have any spiritual belief until they come on like they know for sure that it is the truth.'

Entheogens work, this is the truth.
Finding God or spirit or spirituality is a great adventure.




It may be a great adventure for you but that doesn't make it any more than your imagination.




our interpretation may be imagination, but experiencing new depths of self-awareness in order to move through boundaries and hindrances is not.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: deranger]
    #8030924 - 02/16/08 11:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I have never argued this point.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8031217 - 02/16/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'So tell me how entheognes "work"? What does that mean?'

Has to do with specific molecular structure and receptor sites.
Like MT said...
They do the job.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8031225 - 02/16/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'Plus there's no real proof that it is more important.'

A person that willingly straps a bomb to his neck and flattens a cafe is my proof at this time in history.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8031255 - 02/16/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Like MT said...
They do the job.




Irony :smirk:
They do they job for SOME and for others... they don't :shrug:
Anything that might work for me will not do the same for you, and that's how it is with everybody.
Anything more turns onto religion. :hehehe:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8031259 - 02/16/08 01:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It was a joke.:shrug::cheers:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8031618 - 02/16/08 04:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The philosopher's stone (Latin: lapis philosophorum; Greek: chrysopoeia) is a legendary substance, supposedly capable of turning inexpensive metals into gold; it was also sometimes believed to be a means of making people younger, if not making them immortal. For a long time it was the "holy grail" of Western alchemy.

In the view of spiritual alchemy, making the philosopher's stone would bring enlightenment upon the maker and conclude the Great Work.[1]
Contents
[hide]
-wiki


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8033810 - 02/17/08 06:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

We are all immortal, all you need to do is realise it.


:grin:

Waits for the flames...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034091 - 02/17/08 09:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The new king would have undergone 'death' by means of a potion administered to him by the high priest in the gathering of the inner group of the holders of the royal secrets. This drug would have been a hallucinogenic that slowly induced a catatonic state, leaving the new king as inert as any corpse. As the hours of the night passed the potion would have worn off and the newly made Horus would have returned from his sojourn with the gods and past kings of Egypt. The return would have been carefully calculated so that the new king returned to consciousness precisely as the morning star rose above the horizon. From that moment on no mortal would ever think about usurping his power, divinely given in a council of the gods in the heavens above. Once the members of the king's elite, the 'holders of secrets', had decided whom to raise to the sublime and unique degree of Horus, the time for any possible competition had passed. (page 110)

What then of the suggestion that a narcotic drug was employed to 'transport' the new king to the stars and back again? As we have already stated, there would be no record of this potion as there is no real record of the coronation ritual at all. It seems reasonable that there is no record of the massively important moment of king-making because no one knew what it was; the candidate took the potion, travelled to the stars and returned the king and Horus. All his earthly team had to do was present him with the trappings of office and ask no questions about the business of the gods, of which the king was now one. The king himself would no doubt have had strange dreams under the influence of the drug but was not, of course, going to reveal anything. By this process the king-making ceremony put the new Horus beyond all dispute as the divine choice of the gods as ruler of the Two Lands.

Narcotic drugs have been used in religious ceremonies in almost every ancient human culture and it would be surprising if such an advanced culture as that of the early Egyptians did not possess very sophisticated knowledge concerning their use. The question is not, could they have used such drugs? It is, why do we think that they would not have used them? The expected method for a man to reach the heavens in death was to traverse the bridge in life, usually with the aid of narcotics.

http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/hiram_key.html


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034114 - 02/17/08 09:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

We are all immortal, all you need to do is realise it.




I also realised that i have to keep paying my taxes. :mad:


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8034172 - 02/17/08 10:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

interesting excerpt

i always wonder what it would be like live in an ancient time, to have a conditioning that wasn't so stabilized, and to take a large dose of a hallucinogenic substance in the initiation chamber of a pyramid.

can anyone say astral travel?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8034219 - 02/17/08 10:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
The new king would have undergone 'death' by means of a potion administered to him by the high priest in the gathering of the inner group of the holders of the royal secrets. This drug would have been a hallucinogenic that slowly induced a catatonic state, leaving the new king as inert as any corpse. As the hours of the night passed the potion would have worn off and the newly made Horus would have returned from his sojourn with the gods and past kings of Egypt. The return would have been carefully calculated so that the new king returned to consciousness precisely as the morning star rose above the horizon. From that moment on no mortal would ever think about usurping his power, divinely given in a council of the gods in the heavens above. Once the members of the king's elite, the 'holders of secrets', had decided whom to raise to the sublime and unique degree of Horus, the time for any possible competition had passed. (page 110)

What then of the suggestion that a narcotic drug was employed to 'transport' the new king to the stars and back again? As we have already stated, there would be no record of this potion as there is no real record of the coronation ritual at all. It seems reasonable that there is no record of the massively important moment of king-making because no one knew what it was; the candidate took the potion, travelled to the stars and returned the king and Horus. All his earthly team had to do was present him with the trappings of office and ask no questions about the business of the gods, of which the king was now one. The king himself would no doubt have had strange dreams under the influence of the drug but was not, of course, going to reveal anything. By this process the king-making ceremony put the new Horus beyond all dispute as the divine choice of the gods as ruler of the Two Lands.

Narcotic drugs have been used in religious ceremonies in almost every ancient human culture and it would be surprising if such an advanced culture as that of the early Egyptians did not possess very sophisticated knowledge concerning their use. The question is not, could they have used such drugs? It is, why do we think that they would not have used them? The expected method for a man to reach the heavens in death was to traverse the bridge in life, usually with the aid of narcotics.

http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/hiram_key.html




When meditating tripping visualising AUM/Lifeforce/kundalini rising up my spine into my 3rd eye chakra i sometimes see the eye of horus.

I never even thought of this symbol so it was not a psychosematic vision.

I seem to get it on the part of the tirp i feel totally aware, where i have no questions, or answers.

I am now fascinated with it


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034422 - 02/17/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I used to always draw it everywhere.
Like Horus rolling his eye on papers at work.

I forget which part of the brain is actually supposed to look like the eye.

I love eyes.

Pupils for some reason.

For awhile I was super interested in the possibility of an amanita OBE or NDE. (Astral travel??) After an experience of eating almost 2 ozs in tea, handcuffs, then handcuffed to a hospital bed experiencing frozen block-universe determinism, activated charcoal, 'Jesus our savior' playing on the radio, a heart monitor on my chest hair, and a night in the hospital... I thought wow that didn't go so well. I was into the idea of an Egyptian ritual style trip to the heavens, for sure. I guess I got the feared amanita hell. I thought they were the phoenix, right?? I wanted to fly.

All the doctor said in the morning was, "this is what we call a bad trip."

Right Doc.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8035514 - 02/17/08 09:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'So tell me how entheognes "work"? What does that mean?'

Has to do with specific molecular structure and receptor sites.
Like MT said...
They do the job.




Then it's all in the brain and not some spiritual god thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8036833 - 02/18/08 07:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'So tell me how entheognes "work"? What does that mean?'

Has to do with specific molecular structure and receptor sites.
Like MT said...
They do the job.




Then it's all in the brain and not some spiritual god thing.




I really don't know how you separate the two.
If your brain is God...
Your brain is the spiritual God thing.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8036850 - 02/18/08 07:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I feel that we are at a time in history where concepts such as in here and out there are breaking down.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8037127 - 02/18/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Although atheists might argue that finding spirituality in the brain implies that religion is nothing more than divine delusion, the nuns were thrilled by their brain scans for precisely the opposite reason: they seemed to provide confirmation of God’s interactions with them. After all, finding a cerebral source for spiritual experiences could serve equally well to identify the medium through which God reaches out to humanity. Thus, the nuns’ forays into the tubular brain scanner did not undermine their faith. On the contrary, the science gave them an even greater reason to believe.

http://linuxmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/10/finding-god-spot-in-our-brains.html


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8037253 - 02/18/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'So tell me how entheognes "work"? What does that mean?'

Has to do with specific molecular structure and receptor sites.
Like MT said...
They do the job.






Then it's all in the brain and not some spiritual god thing.




I really don't know how you separate the two.
If your brain is God...
Your brain is the spiritual God thing.




I don't seperate them. I don't believe in a God concept.

IMO it's just all nature and your brain just does it's survival thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8037289 - 02/18/08 10:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

backfromthedead said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'So tell me how entheognes "work"? What does that mean?'

Has to do with specific molecular structure and receptor sites.
Like MT said...
They do the job.






Then it's all in the brain and not some spiritual god thing.




I really don't know how you separate the two.
If your brain is God...
Your brain is the spiritual God thing.




I don't seperate them. I don't believe in a God concept.

IMO it's just all nature and your brain just does it's survival thing.




During the natural course of humans surviving on earth there has been ample evidence to suggest that there is a reality behind the God concept, imo.
Might you believe in Alien communication, a voice of the logos??
How do you explain the experiences that are being increasingly reported.
Mental illness?? Voices in the head?? What then??


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8037366 - 02/18/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What thought might the prover be proving??


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8037403 - 02/18/08 10:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

During the natural course of humans surviving on earth there has been ample evidence to suggest that there is a reality behind the God concept, imo.

Gee I haven't seen any and I think I'm a lot older than you. Please provide some.


Might you believe in Alien communication, a voice of the logos??
How do you explain the experiences that are being increasingly reported.

Mental illness?? Voices in the head?? What then??


Stress mostly. Mental illness, need for attention; death anxiety.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8037409 - 02/18/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
What thought might the prover be proving??




Duh! Any thought that the thinker thinks and is invested in. (which is about all of them)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBoots
Disenchanted
Male

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8037530 - 02/18/08 11:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, I think they have shaped culture at the least, and at the most, affected the way our neurotransmitters recieve signals and interpret them. I do believe that there may be a omnipotent being but I don't think that psychedelics are giving some sort of insight into such things. I'd say any religious experiences on a psychedelic are due to programming into our minds (as humans and individuals).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Boots]
    #8037758 - 02/18/08 12:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

When your out of your ego/human form you (well i can anyway) feel what the Buddhas and Taoists talk about, it makes perfect undoubted sense, all i cann do is wish this for others, trying to put it in words and rationalise it just brings confusion into the equation, i know it isnt just my brain trying to find an ultimate answer as i wasnt searching for it, it found me,  i felt it, then searched through buddhism and the tao for description of my experience.

In human form it is felt as pure awareness, being a part of everything, pure bliss, unattachment etc...

I believe with every fibre in my being of human consciousness that life evolves to evolve to this higher/highest consciousness, getting closer to what it is in its pure state (Nirvana)

Consciousness, awareness, life, purity, enlightenment, god, liberation, eternal Tao, Nirvana, its ALL the same thing that life exists for and because of.

This can and never will be prooved, i however have felt this, and know it to be true as do many others. This is "the point of life" to BE until it does not attach to BEing and simply IS.

See how it cant be put in words :shrug:

But the point is entheogens make you feel this, they make believers out of non believers. Or not as the case may be :smile:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8037799 - 02/18/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i hope so.:sad:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8037890 - 02/18/08 01:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You know so :smile: you really really really do!

When i try and rationlise it (which is a form of attachment) it makes no sense, the second i stop rationlising and quiet my mind is the second i realise.

Seeing the truth really is about not being attached to anything, its all an illusion, a distraction, a state of being and seeing hearing tasting touching, its all a multidimensional illusion, a manifestion of eternal life, the Buddha is so wise it fills me with bliss to be emptiness :grin:

The fact i wish this for others seems to make me arrogant to some, what a shame :smile: (for them)


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038052 - 02/18/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"This can and never will be prooved, i however have felt this, and know it to be true as do many others."
Do you hope it will be never proved, or do you know, or just feel ?

I 'feel', it was, is and will be proven..


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
    #8038372 - 02/18/08 03:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

That forum was created because folk didn't like being challenged here.




Philosophy with training wheels and milk and cookies.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8038500 - 02/18/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
"This can and never will be prooved, i however have felt this, and know it to be true as do many others."
Do you hope it will be never proved, or do you know, or just feel ?

I 'feel', it was, is and will be proven..





when i said ive felt this and know it to be true, i mean the divine itself, not the prooving of...

I hope your right i really in my heart of hearts do, i just feel science trys to be god instead of prooving god, i just cant see how you can proove something like the ultimate truth, unless you locate a particle that is in absolutely everything.

but even then thats just prooving interconnectedness of samsara, not the true divine that we cnat even speak of, that which i have felt and know. bold statements but true.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038727 - 02/18/08 04:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I am largely off topic, I think, but imaging that particle you thought of, cruising with infinite speed through the reflective boundaries' (bouncing off) of our space, that is what you ask for, because that single particle could make up all space, as it is everywhere all at one..


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8038760 - 02/18/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thats would be great, that then could be the "god" particle. This particle would be LIFE & everyhting that makes it up.

But still i believe in Nirvana/Tao/Liberation (what this particle could be!) as i believe thats why live evolves, to return to being pure LIFE & everything, the more evolved, the more balanced, free of attachment to this so called reality of illusion, so then science would need to proove how this lifestream/mindstream/karmic debt gets rebirthed until it is fully aware and becomes this particle purely, eternally.

I only say this based on my beliefs through buddhism & experience.

I dont in the forseeable future see scientists even attempting to do this, how could they?

The god particle yes but not prooving rebirth until liberation, they would just laugh as many do.

But those of us who have felt it know it to be true (to us!)


Edited by Chronic7 (02/18/08 04:41 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038799 - 02/18/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This particle would also need to remain unchanged escape impermanence, through big bangs ect...this particle would be the big bang itself and just then expanded. But how this particle interacts with life/death would be the next step for the scientist after prooving the particles existence.

Right?

Im not demanding this lol im just sayin for it to proove what i feel is unproovable


Edited by Chronic7 (02/18/08 04:47 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Muscaria


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Entheogens and Soul Crotalus 1,212 4 06/13/03 04:44 PM
by Crotalus
* does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? xfluffybunnyx 1,334 9 11/14/02 07:46 PM
by Strumpling
* Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers...
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 5,363 46 08/23/03 09:10 PM
by MindTrap
* The Seven Steps of Human Evolution
( 1 2 3 all )
ShroomismM 6,269 42 05/23/09 11:39 AM
by OrgoneConclusion
* The Seven Steps of Human Evolution
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 5,075 20 01/22/03 08:54 AM
by Shroomism
* Dass, LSD, Omniscience, Truth, Experience
( 1 2 all )
World Spirit 4,329 34 07/18/03 08:26 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* ESSAY:Psychedelic induced mystical experiences by Alan Watts tekramrepus 2,908 6 03/21/03 11:43 AM
by pattern
* The Idea of Evolution is BS
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
World Spirit 18,800 165 07/21/02 09:44 AM
by whiterastahippie

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,065 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.