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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
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Entheogenic Evolution?
#8030295 - 02/16/08 07:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you believe entheogens have played a big role in our evoltion, or will play a big role?
Or both?
its obvious they can give genuine mystic divine experience, yet most after this experience don't seem to even want to integrate this experience into theyre lives. They would still rather be egotistical cynical beings.
I feel they are here to help us on our journey yet most humans are so egotistical they refute help regardless of where it comes from.
Basically they cant help us if we arent willing to help ourselves.
That my view onit, if we open our minds (which seems the whole point of psychedelics) then we can realise great truth, yet if we bring cynical attitudesd into the experience it is unpure.
As at the end of the day as humans all there is is faith, as we can never proove or describe the divine, only experience it and have faith.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030303 - 02/16/08 07:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Both. The history of entheogen usage throughout time is well documented, imo. The experience will only be given more attention in the future.
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Edited by backfromthedead (02/16/08 02:50 PM)
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
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I sure hope so because humans are so egotistical its like we need a substance that forces us to see truth.
Sure religeon can make you realise these truths but religeon definatley seems on the way out, which in a way is good because only you can liberate yourself not words from others or theorys.
I still struggle with this, as upon realisation of great truth you want everyone to know it, yet trying to show others just makes them even more defensive
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backfromthedead
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030319 - 02/16/08 07:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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 I wish somehow you could put the mushrooms where they belong, in the church. Swap out the cracker and wine. I agree. Truth is a challenging thing in the age of disinformation. What is the Truth if this is indeed the age of disinformation??
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Chronic7

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I think the truth can only come form within, and shrooms/entheogens help you look within.
LOOOL swap out the cracker and wine, that would make for an awesome sermon 
Catholicism has dug its own grave by separating man and god, its such a shame because its fundamental values are so great, as are the fundamentals of all religeons. I say ALL very loosely
Edited by Chronic7 (02/16/08 07:48 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030581 - 02/16/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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its obvious they can give genuine mystic divine experience,
Obviously.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030596 - 02/16/08 09:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I feel sorry for you that that amuses you so much.
tell me icelander, why do you take shrooms?
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Icelander
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030609 - 02/16/08 09:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I feel sorry for you that that amuses you so much.
Thank you, I feel much better now.
why do you take shrooms?
The same reason I hike in the desert.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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backfromthedead
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030621 - 02/16/08 09:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: its obvious they can give genuine mystic divine experience,
Obviously.
"HOPKINS SCIENTISTS SHOW HALLUCINOGEN IN MUSHROOMS CREATES UNIVERSAL “MYSTICAL” EXPERIENCE Rigorous study hailed as landmark
Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in “sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries."
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html
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Icelander
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can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries."
Yeah, so what? I don't think much of the guys who claim the spontaneous "spiritual" experience either.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030640 - 02/16/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I feel sorry for you that that amuses you so much.
Thank you, I feel much better now.
why do you take shrooms?
The same reason I hike in the desert.
To be one with nature?
Seriously man i want to understand your mindset, to laugh at someones beliefs the way you do psychologically says to me your a being who lives in fear of others beleifs.
Youve seemed like an intelligent person in the past...
And yes your brain IS god, as is everything
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Icelander
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030649 - 02/16/08 09:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I laugh at you and not your beliefs. This is a debate forum unlike the mystery forum and yet you treat it the same. You put up your subjective yada and then back it up with what? You back it up by saying you have faith. Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?
I take shrooms and hike in the desert for ADVENTURE. I don't know if there is anything else going on or not but I surely am not going to take it on faith after I have seem what the faithful are really all about.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030677 - 02/16/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I laugh at you and not your beliefs. This is a debate forum unlike the mystery forum and yet you treat it the same. You put up your subjective yada and then back it up with what? You back it up by saying you have faith. Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?
I take shrooms and hike in the desert for ADVENTURE. I don't know if there is anything else going on or not but I surely am not going to take it on faith after I have seem what the faithful are really all about.
You say you laugh at me, not my beliefs, yet all you know of me is my beliefs.
I agree i got the forums mixed up, hands up, my bad, i just see spirituality then post here, i only realised 2day that its basically "post spiritual stuff here to get hotly flamed for it" which you take great pleasure in doing (seeing as you get so much amusement from it) which is 100% totally fine, go get yours pal, stand up for what you beleive in as i do, theres another forum for this, i didn't realise, and in my thousand or so post this was ignorant of me. I admit that.
You just seem very particular towards people who have spiritual faith. Which is faith through experience, not blind faith!
And you dont seem to come up with a precise argument against it, you just roll on your back and laugh your face of.
I didnt realise thats how philosophers debate.
Whatever tickles you...
Edited by Chronic7 (02/16/08 10:21 AM)
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deranger


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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030689 - 02/16/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?
no need to whine about it, if it really is this annoying the ignore button works well.
the mysticism forum isn't as populated and the replies he gets here are probably more in his interest. also the topic of this thread has some concepts that are of spiritual nature, so it does fit.
laughing in someones face and ridiculing their views doesn't really seem like a positive and constructive form of debate, but whatever floats your boat dude.
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Icelander
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030728 - 02/16/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
chronic777 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I laugh at you and not your beliefs. This is a debate forum unlike the mystery forum and yet you treat it the same. You put up your subjective yada and then back it up with what? You back it up by saying you have faith. Well that's just lame in this forum. What the hell are you posting in this forum for when they made one especially for you?
I take shrooms and hike in the desert for ADVENTURE. I don't know if there is anything else going on or not but I surely am not going to take it on faith after I have seem what the faithful are really all about.
You say you laugh at me, not my beliefs, yet all you know of me is my beliefs.
I agree i got the forums mixed up, hands up, my bad, i just see spirituality then post here, i only realized 2day that its basically "post spiritual stuff here to get hotly flamed for it" which you take great pleasure in doing (seeing as you get so much amusement from it) which is 100% totally fine, go get yours pal, stand up for what you believe in as i do, there's another forum for this, i didn't realize, and in my thousand or so post this was ignorant of me. I admit that.
You just seem very particular towards people who have spiritual faith. Which is faith through experience, not blind faith!
And you dont seem to come up with a precise argument against it, you just roll on your back and laugh your face of.
I didnt realise thats how philosophers debate.
Whatever tickles you...
Nice try but I don't often flame anyone. Part of what I do here is to steer folk like yourself to the correct forum. If that takes a little tough love then so be it. 
I don't have a problem with folk who have any spiritual belief until they come on like they know for sure that it is the truth. There is so much evidence that this is an ego driven stance that it isn't funny. Yet when you challenge these folk and they get defensive they will swear up and down that they don't have an ego problem. This is just plain dishonest or ignorant IMO and I get tired of it because there is so much of it to hack through to get into a real debate using logic and some type of proofs to the best of our ability.
Often people take a large or small dose of shrooms have an experience that they cannot catalog in their normal awareness and so then conclude that it cannot be other than a divine cosmic connection to the godhead and much more special than fetching fuel and carrying water. I once also had that belief. I got over it when I noticed that people generally don't change that much after it's all over with. I don't deny it can be a powerful catalyst for change but what I will argue is whether it is anymore divine than a car wreck.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: deranger]
#8030740 - 02/16/08 10:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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but whatever floats your boat dude.
Gee thanks.
Have you ever considered that if these folk go over to the Mystery forum then it won't be under populated? This would be good for everyone don't you think?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030744 - 02/16/08 10:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok i see your point of view now and i don't feel like im being mocked 
I agree alot of it is still ego based an always will be in human form, but you cant dismiss the possibility these are genuine experiences.
Times ive felt what i believed is the pure truth and imposed this on others, i accept could possibly be ego based, (a need for a definitive answer) as long as you realise that what makes you decide this isnt a pure truth can also be your ego.
Now this is what i call a philosophical spiritual debate
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backfromthedead
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030761 - 02/16/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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'...conclude that it cannot be other than a divine cosmic connection to the godhead and much more special than fetching fuel and carrying water.'
Important experience none the less for some. What makes something divine??
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Icelander
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Chronic7]
#8030763 - 02/16/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
chronic777 said: Ok i see your point of view now and i don't feel like im being mocked 
I agree alot of it is still ego based an always will be in human form, but you cant dismiss the possibility these are genuine experiences.
Times ive felt what i believed is the pure truth and imposed this on others, i accept could possibly be ego based, (a need for a definitive answer) as long as you realise that what makes you decide this isnt a pure truth can also be your ego.
Good I'm glad we understand each other. I'm sure you're a decent psychonaut. I don't dismiss the possibility of these being genuine cosmic experiences. In a way I believe they are in fact but that is my subjective personal belief and I'm sure their is a lot of wish fulfillment involved in believing it. I just like the honest and IMO humble approach that says, IMO or I believe this but it's very subjective. Then we can challenge it and see what happens. Maybe we can even find a little evidence to support it if we do more than just believe but also research.
Anyway, I'm fine with you posting here but I will challenge anything that I think doesn't fit and you can do the same with me. It's not like I don't ever go off half cocked.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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backfromthedead
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Re: Entheogenic Evolution? [Re: Icelander]
#8030774 - 02/16/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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'I don't have a problem with folk who have any spiritual belief until they come on like they know for sure that it is the truth.'
Entheogens work, this is the truth. Finding God or spirit or spirituality is a great adventure.
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