|
giomakyo
Stranger
Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: giomakyo]
#10170704 - 04/15/09 11:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Bluetech:
You could always go to:
http://www.aleph-zero.info/media/AlephZ13/flyer/bluetech.html
They've got an e-flyer with lengthy samples of every track included. If you're thinking of buying it, you can get it there too.
If you just want a free ripped copy, then, I guess that won't help. But supposedly that isn't the point here, right?
|
payam
Stranger


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 76
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: giomakyo]
#10173823 - 04/15/09 07:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
i know many music addicts and collectors IRL and through interwebz. from my experience there are different kind of ppl listening to underground music
some buy everything; good for them and labels
some would love to buy everything but simply can't afford; take me as an example, i'm a student making enough money not to starve! still i leave some of my money aside for purchasing CDs. i simply can't afford buying the Dakini catalog right away although with very few exceptions they are all awesome and Dakini is by far (IMO) best ethnic downtempo label. so yeah, i do have a ripped version of all your albums and I'm buying them little by little. so i download them, and decide which one to buy. for these kindda ppl it's in record label's benefit that i'm downloading them because otherwise you would have lost a potential supporter.
some don't give a fuck, and would love to have a ripped version of all the albums; believe me or not these ppl would never spend any money anyways so at least by hearing your music they might promote it somewhere so you get more supporters. if not, you are not losing anything anyways!!
some have not heard this kindda music and listen to different genres; if they download your music here and compare it to whatever they like, they might become interested as well.
the system is based on big (i mean BIG) record labels. IMO it doesn't and will not work well for underground music labels. i think you guys have to find a new way. i think what Fluid radio is doing right now is amazing and although you might argue that ppl listening to that radio would not spend their money to purchase the albums but i argue not!!!!!!
peace n bass p
|
AlephZero
Stranger
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: payam]
#10182436 - 04/17/09 01:48 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Hi all, Shahar @ Aleph Zero. We actually have a user here for quite a long time. We joined as we wanted to let you people know about our releases- however, our post were deleted because it was decided that they are spam. Gotta love the irony, eh?
Happy to see you are thrilled to hear the new Bluetech album. I'm real busy with promoting the new album, so I can't respond to all the interesting arguments given here at length.
However here's something I think is relevant that I wrote originally upon request for Revolve magazine in the UK about a year ago. I'd appreciate it if you give 5 minutes of your time to read and think about it:
Should we buy our music?
A question everyone with a computer faces these days is should I buy my music or should I just download it for free. Every musical piece that exists these days (and even some that don't) is available for download for free through myriad of ways. So should we buy our music? As someone who's been buying music and getting it in other ways for a long time, and as someone who has a label and is involved very much in our small alternative musical scene I want to offer some insights.
Let's go back in time… quite a long way back… when I started to get into music, I used to record music on cassettes - we didn't have much money, so we used to go 3-4 friends to a record store, each would buy one record, and then we would go back home and each would record the others' records to a tape. Downloading/sharing is the same, basically, isn't it? Both are illegal copying. Well, the scale is different. For one person who buys a CD, you have millions who share it with him. This does put us in danger of making music making something you can't live from, and that is especially true if you're not an artist that performs a lot (if you perform a lot, you might be able to live from shows).
The way I see it, this is a very simple thing. You want good music from artists and labels, you gotta make it possible for them to make it and live from it, especially when you're talking of underground music that doesn't have a big market, that doesn't have a commercial appeal. Draw your line, as long as you do all you can to support the music you love, it's OK. Once you cross that line and start getting something you really like for free, when you can afford to buy it, you choke the music, and then you won't have good music- very simple.
We have to get it into our minds, that if we don't give back to the music we like- it will deteriorate, and finally disappear. The good artists that devote themselves to their art, that work professionally, that walk new paths, will quit or go where the money is (commercial music). The good labels that present an interesting musical vision, invest in their artists and develop them, will dwindle and die. This is already happening and for quite a while. Let's no kid ourselves, good original, mature, deep, professionally made music is very hard to come by in our scene.
Music, as all forms of art, was never in history a profitable business. Musicians and music institutes were always supported, by kings, by aristocrats, by governments. We live in a better age- it is in our hands to support the musicians we like and the music we like. Let's do it. It can work.
So, if you like it- support it, buy it!!! If you don't- you won't have more of it. Very simple.
Also more interesting reading about the subject: A very interesting article by Robert Rich about being a non-commercial artist in the Internet age: http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/
An interesting discussion about free music & free economy models (starts after the link to the Wired article): http://forum.isratrance.com/the-flop-industry-article-by-dj-yaniv-tal-discussion/page2/
And as Gio said, please share with us as well. Thanks & have a great weekend! Shahar @ Aleph Zero.
Edited by AlephZero (04/17/09 01:50 AM)
|
Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: AlephZero]
#10183122 - 04/17/09 06:34 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
When the bluetechs available to purchase as WAV files online ill buy it for sure....just waiting on them...
Check this album out by delerium - called 'karma' its incredible i think, ive listened to it the first time this morning, the girl who sings (sarah mclaughlin) has an amazing voice that i fell in love with the second i heard it, fantastic! I will certainly buy the CD having heard the tracks now, if i had not heard the tracks i would never have even considered buying the CD.
Delerium - Karma

Links are part 1/2, password is - lime
http://www.filefactory.com/file/226923/
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a35439/
http://rapidshare.com/files/52281533/delerium_-_karma__limited_uk_edition_.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/52281448/delerium_-_karma__limited_uk_edition_.part2.rar
--------------------
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Chronic7]
#10183223 - 04/17/09 07:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That was one of my favorite albums in 1998. Jeeze I feel old sometimes.
|
Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Middleman]
#10183269 - 04/17/09 07:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Nostalgias great, id heard the track silence before passing in the backround of my life, but when i heard it this time it knocked me out, that girls voice is so great
Im getting a sheet of acid this weekend so i got delerium just in time, i been waiting months to get some acid, only done it once before, awesome!
--------------------
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Chronic7]
#10185886 - 04/17/09 04:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks to Andrew from Interchill's litigiousness we are no longer allowed to share direct album host links here at the Shroomery.
He even suggested that those of us sharing links should be banned. 
You're going about this all wrong Interchill. We are just going to DL your titles at other sites and none of us will ever buy another Interchill Records title again. 
There are hundreds of other album sharing forums and blogs that get WAY more traffic, why are you fucking around with us?
|
automan
blasted chipmunk


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Middleman]
#10186124 - 04/17/09 05:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, I was about to purchase a few albums from him, but no more. I won't support someone like that.
-------------------- No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: automan]
#10186141 - 04/17/09 05:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Right on auto. 
It's the fact that he's messing with us instead of focusing on the plethora of big pirate forums (WHERE WE GET THE LINKS), plus the backhanded way he complained that pisses me off.
|
Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d


Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: automan]
#10186145 - 04/17/09 05:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
automan said: Yeah, I was about to purchase a few albums from him, but no more. I won't support someone like that.
I'll be doing that as well. I own a BUNCH of Interchill shit too. The only way I will now own anything they produce is from used CDs stores. Fuck this guy. Hopefully admins delete his account.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: AlephZero]
#10186327 - 04/17/09 06:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
AlephZero said:
So, if you like it- support it, buy it!!! If you don't- you won't have more of it. Very simple.
Sorry but I think the age-old 'BUY or the industry will DIE' argument is bullshit. I was on your side but now, not so much.
I know musicians and the best ones will continue to do it for free if they have to, but they won't have to because they will perform, sell merchandise, and discover new mediums such as interactive iPhone music apps like the one NIN just released.
YOU CANNOT FIGHT TECHNOLOGY! You have to CHANGE with it.
Instead of wasting your time fighting an unstoppable force you should be focusing on these new models. 
|
payam
Stranger


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 76
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Middleman]
#10186454 - 04/17/09 06:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Middleman said:
Quote:
AlephZero said:
So, if you like it- support it, buy it!!! If you don't- you won't have more of it. Very simple.
Sorry but I think the age-old 'BUY or the industry will DIE' argument is bullshit. I was on your side but now, not so much.
I know musicians and the best ones will continue to do it for free if they have to, but they won't have to because they will perform, sell merchandise, and discover new mediums such as interactive iPhone music apps like the one NIN just released.
Instead of wasting your time fighting an unstoppable force you should be focusing on these new models. 
would you plz enlighten me!?!!?
can't agree more. this system only works for pop music. don't limit your creativity to music, i also agree with middleman that there should be new models to be discovered...
on another note although i don't agree with andrew but i think you guys are being harsh. i support the artists with good output even if they are assholes!!!!!
also i want to congratulate Alephzero. awesome music, different styles, and the flyers are sooooooo cool!!! and i can't wait to get my hands on bluetech's new album/T shirt/poster.
ps. i had most of the albums posted on this thread anyways (ripped) but among those that i didn't i found 3 so good that i purchased the physical CDs. one of them in particular (Subheim - Approach) ended up being one of my favorite albums of 08 while i wasn't familiar with it nor the record label. cheerz for that :P
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: payam]
#10186499 - 04/17/09 07:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You're right man, I'm just a little upset that we are getting legal threats in our tiny corner of the interweb when there are so many much larger, much less shroomy sites they could be bitching at.
It's not much but it's a start: http://www.vimeo.com/3487381 NIN also just released an impressive networking iPhone app.
|
lukeboots
fresh futuristic


Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 19,728
Loc: Grand Ole Operating Syste...
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Middleman]
#10188010 - 04/18/09 01:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Ah, dude, record labels request blogs to take down links all the time, too. It's easy to forget how they see things. They put a lot of time and effort into releasing quality music, and we should respect that, even if some labels get pushy and threatening a bit too soon. There's enough music to go around. It seems silly to commandeer someone elses' art, and get upset when they ask for a little justice.
By the way, I completely agree with you about adapting to the times, and I think that many labels are doing just that - but respect for the art needs to be mutual.
--------------------
funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: lukeboots]
#10188352 - 04/18/09 05:31 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
We are not 'commandeering' anyone's art.
We are sharing LOW QUALITY copies of people's art to preview and PROMOTE them.
There are still plenty of huge blogs that remain open.
Wouldn't you be mad for getting busted for an eighth when the neighbors have an illegal garden in their front yard?
Don't tell me about respect. It's out of respect that I have tried to increase awareness of obscure artists and have implored people to support the artists throughout this thread.
|
lukeboots
fresh futuristic


Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 19,728
Loc: Grand Ole Operating Syste...
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Middleman]
#10188729 - 04/18/09 09:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Understood. I am an obscure artist, and the owner/operator of a tiny local label. Promotion is nice, agreed. But intellectual property is a slippery slope, even with independents, and I think it's only the right thing to do to follow the wishes of the artists and the people that work closely with them. Then again, I didn't have to directly deal with this guy. I might be singing a different tune if I had. If there are so many large blogs still open, why not just link to them and recommend certain releases from their pages?
--------------------
funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: lukeboots]
#10188765 - 04/18/09 09:21 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That's exactly what we are going to do from now on, see the sticky.
|
lukeboots
fresh futuristic


Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 19,728
Loc: Grand Ole Operating Syste...
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: Middleman]
#10188770 - 04/18/09 09:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Word. =]
--------------------
funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
|
ichill
Stranger
Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: lukeboots]
#10189772 - 04/18/09 12:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
hey middleman...
one thing i bear in mind is that each copy is not necessarily a lost sale...
copying for and from your buddies is one thing... but posting links or seeding torrents is another. in a pure capitalist system, the greater the supply, the less the value; by increasing exponentially the visibility of online copies you in turn devalue the thing it is you that seek. In some cases that directly affects my business.
this site gets traffic partly because it is a hub of free music. more traffic drives greater advertising revenue for the site owners. That is another reason that I object.
This site, if the mods so choose, could easily remedy the music copying situation that flows from here by implementing some of the following: links to valid download services, label sites, artist sites, cd's for sale in a shroomery shop, artist donate options.
however i don't think that is likely to happen.
please do read the thoughtful and reasonable views put forward by Shahar and Gio - and give feedback. the links are worth checking out.
Can anyone redefine intellectual property law such that it is consistent with current practices, and also consistent regardless of scale ? [All my attempts to consider this come back to the principle that the creator of a work should get to choose how that work is exploited, and have property rights in and to his/her work that they can trade, sell, try to make a living from, etc. exceptions to this are usually only when there is an educational benefit.]
why shroomery ? we'd like to believe that those who are expanding their consciousness and defining new culture are setting high standards. for me consciousness expansion has been about developing personal ethics and understanding as well as all the nice colours and sensations. is that too idealistic ? if you fly the psychedelic flag then don't be shocked if you're held to a higher standard by some of us.
until the next time....
|
AlephZero
Stranger
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
|
Re: Ambient / Experimental Album Thread [Re: ichill]
#10189920 - 04/18/09 01:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
We do our best to innovate and generate more revenue to enable us to continue and spread our musical vision. For example we have this CD+ limited edition Shirt + Poster for only 28 Euros including shipping for the Bluetech release, and yes is is very popular.
 You can check it here: http://www.aleph-zero.info/shop.html
However- if you actually read what I wrote you'd see that I do offer another model for the support of music- one that will always work, regardless of technology- it is just one that requires YOU to do something too, and not just us to invent new ways and technologies (or to chase illegal download links). Personally I rather concentrate on the music, it'll give me a chance to give YOU better music.
And the way some ppl here chose to express themselves towards Andrew is shameful and sad. You sound like that 3 year old kid that comes to play at a friend's house and when he needs to go home starts crying and screaming when they take his friend's toy and won't let him take it with him.
Andrew and Interchill are such an important pillar for this music you all seem to enjoy so much- you should give him minimum respect.
And he wasn't alone in this, a lot of other labels, including us, took part. And we're not only after shrooms lovers, we're chasing all those forums, and will do our best to take them all down. We at least have an equal right to protect what is ours, as others have to steal and share it.
And as much as I am a philanthropist with a strong belief that human nature is good at its roots, and always try to give all the benefit of the doubt, excuse me if I am skeptical about the fact that the majority of people who use these links actually support the artists and the labels and just use them to find out what music to buy. The numbers say otherwise.
Anyway, I appreciate those who made the effort to see things from our side and discuss it with us. I am also happy people here love this music, and ask you again- try to support what you love. Have a great week, Shahar @ Aleph Zero.
|
|