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Offlineburgerpizza
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Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 218
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Harvesting
    #8028002 - 02/15/08 04:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I read somewhere that someone harvests all his mushrooms before the cap opens up unless he's making a print. Why would you do this? Wouldn't you want it to grow bigger before harvesting? Is it easier to dry that way?

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InvisibleLSDevin
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Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 174
Loc: In a yellow submarine
Re: Harvesting [Re: burgerpizza]
    #8028036 - 02/15/08 04:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

because it is believed that they are more potent by weight before the cap opens and they stop psilocybin production at this time. I'm not sure if this is true but its been said allot.


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Check out my gallery, click on albundy.  :albundy:

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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: Harvesting [Re: LSDevin]
    #8028048 - 02/15/08 04:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It's less messy, as well. All those spores can turn everything purple.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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OfflineHybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
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Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
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Re: Harvesting [Re: thedefone]
    #8028115 - 02/15/08 04:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Its not true, I was told from someone. Dont really know and dont really care if anyone else believes it or not but he claimed that leaving the cap attached increased the overall potency of the mushroom but the truth is psilocybin is 0.01% per a single dryed gram of cubensis. The potency can vary from substrain to substrain, usually introducing it to multiple nutrient medias over its development period.

For example, adding coffee to your rye soak defiantly gives the mycelium a alkaloid that not only increases the growth speed but its just adding a genetic nutrient profile to the mycelium and then when spawned to say coir/coffee grounds/hpoo the mycelium goes ape shit with the psilocybin.

I've grown out isolates on coffee and with no coffee, coir, coir/coffee grounds coir soaked in coffee and they're all potent as hell but rye soaked in coffee with coir/coffee grounds is defiantly a favorite for potency for me at least. Haven't had any problems since.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: Harvesting [Re: LSDevin]
    #8028137 - 02/15/08 04:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LSDevin said:
because it is believed that they are more potent by weight before the cap opens and they stop psilocybin production at this time. I'm not sure if this is true but its been said allot.




Please stop spilling misinformation...do a search and come back...That Myth is BUSTED

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Offlineismokeweed
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Re: Harvesting [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8028170 - 02/15/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

wait. so they keep producing the same amount of psilocybin after the veil breaks and spores drop?

I read that on a daily basis. no fuckin kidding. on this website. new posts and all.

SO the only reason for picking them before spores drop is less mess?

If they really produce the same amount of psilocybin afterwards then its not a waste in nutrients at all. I see this all the fuckin time here.

So whats the deal?

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Offlinehazey
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Registered: 01/20/08
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Re: Harvesting [Re: ismokeweed]
    #8028593 - 02/15/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

its just one of those things that will be perpetually debated. i always let my mushrooms mature somewhat. the way i see it, every organism on Earth strives to get to maturity, so why not let your mushrooms mature? i feel they are happier when youve given them a full life, and they might be a little butt hurt if you pick them when theyre not ready.

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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Harvesting [Re: hazey]
    #8028632 - 02/15/08 06:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was under the impression that spores dropping on mycelium basically told the mycelial network to shut down at that location.

I can't back it up though.


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Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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OfflineHybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
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Re: Harvesting [Re: Crasher]
    #8028788 - 02/15/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Like I said, different nutrient medias contain different alkaloids that mycelium thrives on, a mixture of different foods is a good way to know that your mushrooms are going to be worth the efforts. Coffee alone is enough to get those "flying purple, red striped cow mushrooms that the crazy guy with tats grows"....

man I've heard allot of weird stories.... anyways. Give it a shot and report back.


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: Harvesting [Re: HybridprX]
    #8029038 - 02/15/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Basically, what I'm saying is everything you have all said is heresay. Until someone shows me otherwise, using some magical scientific process, that letting the caps fully open reduces potency by weight, I will continue to harvest prior to sporulation. I will do this not only to reduce mess, but because this has become, to the best of my understanding, the conventional wisdom.

Also...

Quote:

Its not true, I was told from someone.



Until you can at least back up your statements with a link, that sounds like pure bullshit. Leaving the caps attached increases potency? Please explain how that works. I say adding cinnamon and sugar to your sub makes your mushrooms taste like ice cream. Does that make it true?


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Offlinehazey
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Registered: 01/20/08
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Re: Harvesting [Re: thedefone]
    #8029095 - 02/15/08 08:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

thedefone said:
Basically, what I'm saying is everything you have all said is heresay. Until someone shows me otherwise, using some magical scientific process, that letting the caps fully open reduces potency by weight, I will continue to harvest prior to sporulation.  I will do this not only to reduce mess, but because this has become, to the best of my understanding, the conventional wisdom.   





:rolleyes:
i couldnt figure that out at first.

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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Harvesting [Re: hazey]
    #8029272 - 02/15/08 09:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Dr pf was the one who wrote his findings about mushrooms being more potent prior to the partial veil breaking...

He also made a living selling spore prints to people, now, if I was going to bring in some extra revenue selling spore prints, when would I tell people to harvest? ...


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OfflinePsuper
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Registered: 02/12/08
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Loc: PNW
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Re: Harvesting [Re: HybridprX]
    #8029708 - 02/15/08 11:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

~This is interesting...I thought that harvesting before the cap opens had some science behind it...there's no papers published on this?~



--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk

Edited by Psuper (02/15/08 11:54 PM)

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Offlinehazey
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Re: Harvesting [Re: Psuper]
    #8029764 - 02/16/08 12:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

its just another master-debate

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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: Harvesting [Re: hazey]
    #8030282 - 02/16/08 06:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dr pf was the one who wrote his findings about mushrooms being more potent prior to the partial veil breaking...



Back it up with something...

Quote:

He also made a living selling spore prints to people, now, if I was going to bring in some extra revenue selling spore prints, when would I tell people to harvest? ...



Was cloning not around back then? Besides, how did you get started? Spores, maybe?


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Offlined4nkman
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Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 70
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Harvesting [Re: thedefone]
    #8030569 - 02/16/08 09:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well, i don't think it matters really, harvest before sporulation = less mess as to the spores. harvest after = larger mushrom
it's not like shrooms degrade in potency when they are growing so i'd say whatever your personal preference is, i haven't seen any evidence of shrooms being more potent before maturation either.
i think that belief is based on the assumption that since there is less mass to the fruit body that the alkaloids are somehow concentrated? not too sure about it

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: Harvesting [Re: d4nkman]
    #8030603 - 02/16/08 09:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Larger mushroom just means moisture based, no increase in overall potency.
Mushrooms can oxides at any point in time

i think that belief is based on the assumption that since there is less mass to the fruit body that the alkaloids are somehow concentrated?

That's what i'll find out today...i've been wondering the same thing.

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
Male

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: Harvesting [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8030670 - 02/16/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

jesus christo...

1... potency is determined by substrain.. isolating a potent one or cloning then isolating is how you get more potency... thats how I got my B+ to knock peoples dick in the dirt eating a half 8th...

2... thats a myth about the caps being open decreases potency... total bs... potency loss is usually due to drying incorrectly (ie using too much heat)...

if you want potency, then isolate your own strains from spore.. THATS how you get potency... consistently...

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InvisibleBEEP

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 1,385
Re: Harvesting [Re: Crasher]
    #8030779 - 02/16/08 10:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
I was under the impression that spores dropping on mycelium basically told the mycelial network to shut down at that location.

I can't back it up though.




what about this?

iv'e heard that somewhere too. still curious. :smile:

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Offlinexaxphaanes
Mycologist
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Re: Harvesting [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8030807 - 02/16/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

2... thats a myth about the caps being open decreases potency... total bs... potency loss is usually due to drying incorrectly (ie using too much heat)...






I hope you know that is incorrect unless you are using ungodly amounts of heat i use 160 to dry and no loss of potency....the only thing that happens when you wait till you have a fully mature mushroom is that you have to eat more mass to get the same amount of actives that would be in a smaller less mature mushroom.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: Harvesting [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #8030936 - 02/16/08 11:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd have to agree with Onlinexaxphaanes ... Psilocybin melts at 400*F...Psilocin is an oxidizer but it converts into psilocybin when dry...when ingested though Psilocybin converts into Psilocin.

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Offlineudok
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Re: Harvesting [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8031110 - 02/16/08 12:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

dumbfounded1600 i wonder where you get all these informations from.
And in your own words:
Please stop spilling misinformation...do a search and come back...
thats all.


--------------------
And on the 7. day the creator designed the psychedelic drugs. Holy shit. Thats intelligent design far beyond my scope. :wink:
Namaste

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: Harvesting [Re: udok]
    #8031621 - 02/16/08 04:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

because it's already been answered....thousands upon thousands of times

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: Harvesting [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8031792 - 02/16/08 05:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Even when the perfect substrate, temperature, terrarium, love of even the most experienced growers....there will be up to a ten-fold difference in actives between individual fruits and from one flush to the next, IT'S A FACT! We've all seen it. One batch sends you to Mars, the next sends you to bed early.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: Harvesting [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8044810 - 02/19/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hey udok read:

Quote:

coda said:
Welcome to the shroomery!

But you need to read man! Like i said before, psilocybin BREAKS DOWN AT 400 F

When you kids will get it in your heads that psilocybin is a VERY stable chemical and can put up with a lot of mistreatement, then you'll finally get off this whole "heat degrades the potency of your mushrooms"

Lets talk about potency shall we since it seems to be the ONE THING EVERYONE is interested in.

Potency 101

Well all know that our mushies need nutrients to grow. Substrates with a higher nutrient base will produce more, and bigger, mushrooms. Adding ingriedients into your mixture that are rich in NITROGEN will increase your potency greatly from those that have low nitrogen content. This is why growing on poo and compost produce more, bigger, and stronger mushrooms. The high nitrogen content (along with other supplemental bacteria and nutrients) just have no comparision to WBS, Rye, or our beloved BRF.

Now that we know where potency comes from, lets take a look at the facors that affect the levels of alkaloids in your mushrooms. Before we even do that, however, let take a look at the two MOST ACTIVE chemicals in your mushrooms: Psilocin and Psilocybin.

Chemical Makeup and Properties of Actives in Mushrooms

Reading through the link we learn that Psilocybin a melting point of 400 F thats 200 DEGREES HOTTER then your average deydrator, its also much much higher then the boiling temps of water (which many of us use to make tea). SO learning this we can realize how stable this chemical really is compared to psilocin. Psilocin is the STRONGER(in terms of "potency") of the two chemicals but it is also the WEAKER(in terms of chemical breakdown). This is what degrades, when your mushrooms blue this is why, its the PSILOCIN breaking down (which would happen anyway, regardless of heat, its very sensitive).

So know that we know all this we can look at the factors which cause potency loss.

NOTHING. Besides letting your mushrooms mature to the point where they're about to rot on the cap, not one thing will cause your mushrooms to lose potency. Picking before the veil tears, after it tears, or after it "tabletops" WILL NOT CAUSE POTENCY LOSS. The debate between large vs small rages on and will NOT BE DETERMINED unless someone does a lot of research using GCMS tests on various sizes, substrates, etc.

So thats it, there's nothing else to tell. Growing mushrooms on substrates high in N will produce stronger, bigger, and more mushrooms. Harvesting times and drying temps WILL NOT decrease your potency.

Shitty substrains happen, weak mushies happen, its just a matter of accepting the fact that your genetics are weak and you need to start over. This is why agar work and strain isoloation should become impotant tools in any serious mycologists toolbox. Once you start isolating and cloning your best substrains you start avoiding these mishaps and guessing games.

Hope this was helpful.



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