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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Learning and Trip Reports
    #8027634 - 02/15/08 02:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What cracks me up is all of the people who are trying a new substance of unknown dosage and effect (on them) who up the dosage because God didn't speak to them within 10 minutes of ingestion so they take another tab/capsule/pill/handful of shrooms or whatever. Then they patiently wait another 10 minutes for the clouds to part and the angels to blow their trumpets, but nope! Better redose! Another 18 seconds goes by. Where, oh where are the unicorns cavorting under pyschedelic rainbows? Better drop some more. Hey, I am starting to feel something. Cool! No wait! It is too much. Way, way too much! Oh shit! Mommy? Where is my mommy?

This is like 1 trip in 10 both here and on Erowid. EVEN FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE READ LOTS OF OTHER'S REPORTS.

Is human learning a nearly impossible task?


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/18/08 02:07 PM)


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8027653 - 02/15/08 02:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Even in the case of very knowledgable and well-intentioned people using psychedelics, there's a degree of striving for instant gratification, just like with other drugs.

Knowledge doesn't help you unless you actually pay close attention to yourself and what you are doing, in the context of your research.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8027656 - 02/15/08 02:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Is human learning a nearly impossible task?




Yes, humans are pretty retarded.
Thank god I'm an elf. :snub:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8027677 - 02/15/08 02:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You are so elf-indulgent.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8027691 - 02/15/08 02:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, elves are very sweet creatures. :sun:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8027814 - 02/15/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Is human learning a nearly impossible task?


Nearly


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8027831 - 02/15/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Once you release right intention to the universe eventually your intention shall be fullfilled, the length of time this takes is dependent on how hard your clinging to the outcome.

This to me is a simple fact that once mastered (i am by NO means ANYWHERE near mastering this) can bring you everything you rightly intend for yourself.

Thats why i dont really encourage my friends to use shrooms stritcly as an entheogen as 1, id be a hypocrite as i use thenm for fun too, 2, only you can liberate yourself, 3, the harder i "try" the more im met with resistance.

So i release intention to the universe to bring them pure mystical experience then let go of all attachment to the outcome of this original intention.

To me this is one of the highest things a being can do for another being, to wish them enlightenment.

But being attachmed to the outcome, wishing too much, will dirve that very goal away from you.

So these 1/10 people who are impatiently wait for god to come to them, will be waiting a long time. Its like theyre demanding proof, i want it NOW! And of course nothing happens, until they let go...


Edited by Chronic7 (02/15/08 03:56 PM)


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Offlinepsycho.reactive
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8027834 - 02/15/08 03:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think its because their searching in vain for whatever god or nirvana they want to experience. But everyone knows it doesn't work like that.


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Invisibleelbisivni

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8027844 - 02/15/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
This is like 1 trip in 10 both here and on Erowid. EVEN FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE READ LOTS OF OTHER'S REPORTS.

Is human learning a nearly impossible task?



So out of every 10 people, 1 is stupid? I probably wouldn't base the argument that "human learning is nearly impossible" on such a low figure..


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: elbisivni]
    #8027953 - 02/15/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

So out of every 10 people, 1 is stupid?




Is tripping the sole activity of such humans for their entire lives?

How about a country that failed to learn a single thing from the Viet Nam disaster and couldn't wait to waste its children and treasure to accomplish... not a damn thing?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8027970 - 02/15/08 04:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Actually some very rich contractors would disagree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Icelander]
    #8028139 - 02/15/08 04:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

learning comes from movement


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Invisibleelbisivni

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8028154 - 02/15/08 04:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Then what's the connection between the statement that '1/10 trippers are stupid' and 'human learning is nearly impossible'? I doubt there is one, and I imagine you probably just wanted to display your sense of dominance over the mass, stupid human populace. Job done!

You could have said
Quote:

For every apple there are ten oranges.

Is growing apples such an impossible task?



, and I would be just as weary about your line of reasoning as I was with what you actually said.

But we can just say that you did not intend for the two statements to relate to one another, even though it had certainly appeared that way, and then everything's gravy.

Is a cinder block such an impossible thing to pull out of ones' own ass?


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: elbisivni]
    #8028202 - 02/15/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Is a cinder block such an impossible thing to pull out of ones' own ass?




I hope you will give us a full Cinder Block report.


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Invisibleelbisivni

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8028287 - 02/15/08 05:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Is a cinder block such an impossible thing to pull out of ones' own ass?




I hope you will give us a full Cinder Block report.



Just tell me when and where, and I'll bring a video camera so that the Shroomery family can finally see what exactly is up OC's rectum :thumbup:

I'll bring the high-speed high-def camera just to make sure the picture is as clear as possible, and so that we can do freeze frame.

:whacker:


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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Invisibleelbisivni

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: elbisivni]
    #8028293 - 02/15/08 05:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:banbanban:


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8028347 - 02/15/08 05:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

In response to your first post....
I don't think that it has anything to do with expectations of getting the results of seeing something specific - like you set up....
It has more to do with pushing the limits....    :evil:
Testing the boundaries....
We do it from childhood....
Trial and error is how we learn about our own limits, and other people's limits - with or without warnings....

If you "habitually" drive over the speed limit and one day get busted with a ticket, does that mean that you will never drive over the speed limit again....?
Maybe for a little while, but those limits start to get blurry in your mind as time pushes forward (even tho~ they are posted on the side of the road!)....

It is human nature to "test the limits"....    :thumbup:
(with the exception of cinder block ass-play)    :eek:

Extreme drug usage can be heaven, and it can be hell just the same....
Moderation usually has a more predictable stable outcome, but that is not always the rule....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8028961 - 02/15/08 07:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

extreme stupidity barks out of every corner.
damn!
how did bush get elected ennyway
twice
4 times?


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8029548 - 02/15/08 10:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Some people just have to learn the hard way.

That's what happens when people don't listen to the more experienced.

I can't say much, when I was 18 I thought I knew everything too.  :shrug:  The older I get the less I realize I know.


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: mushbaby]
    #8030251 - 02/16/08 06:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushbaby said:
Some people just have to learn the hard way.

That's what happens when people don't listen to the more experienced.

I can't say much, when I was 18 I thought I knew everything too.  :shrug:  The older I get the less I realize I know.




Exactly, theres always more to learn/experience.

I wish i would have learned certain things through teachings & faith, but your right only experience can teach us as we have no faith in other people, and rightly so as so many people act selfishly.

Im going to give up trying to bring people around to the truth as they dont beleive it unless they experience it.

What i dont understand is there are posters here with over thousands of posts and they still seem to have almost no grasp on reality, that makes me very cynical of the human race, how some people can have so many spiritual experiences (from entheogens) and still come away with nothing apart from...

"if i dont see it or you cant proove it, it isnt real."

When the whole purpose of entheogens on this earth are to pull the so called veil of "reality" from our eyes and experience the divine, if you experience it then still dont have faith, then why do you keep taking entheogens?

These people must live miserable existences, constantly fighting themselves. At least people who cling to wanting to communicate with the divine have open minds instead of shutting out the truth permanently with no possibility of faith within theyre lives.

Im done.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030270 - 02/16/08 06:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

These people must live miserable existences, constantly fighting themselves.



People that don't think as you do are miserable? Any basis for this or is it just as empty as most of the other suppositions you put forth as truth?

Quote:

At least people who cling to wanting to communicate with the divine have open minds instead of shutting out the truth permanently with no possibility of faith within theyre lives.



Like the open-minded and dead Heaven's gate members?


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/16/08 11:05 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8030286 - 02/16/08 07:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Its not about MY way of thinking, its about realisation of the truth.
Its has nothing to do with individuality.
And yes emptiness is all there is so everything i beleive in is empty as you put it. Except i feel it it as fullfillment in human form.

All i want for everyone is enlightenment, people seem to hate on me for this, and that definatley is a miserable existence.

Im not trying to be holier than thou im just telling the truth.
If you dont want to listen and only want to doubt thats your choice.


I dont know what that is (heavens gate) all im saying is people who experience the divine and still have no faith can not be helped by other beings, they can only help themselves.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030293 - 02/16/08 07:10 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'The older I get the less I realize I know.'

:thumbup:

Should one keep it empty or fill it up??


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8030830 - 02/16/08 11:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

What i dont understand is there are posters here with over thousands of posts and they still seem to have almost no grasp on reality, that makes me very cynical of the human race, how some people can have so many spiritual experiences (from entheogens)




One who takes entheogens must have a Chronic-like experience or they are not spiritual? Un-fucking-believeable! Could you possibly make a more self-centered, egoic statement?


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8030875 - 02/16/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Not at all i didnt say that, every experience is different as we are living as indivuduals in the physical world, i was just saying i dont understand how sumone can have so many spiritual experieces and not come away with anything spiritual from it.

I wasnt syaing they have to have an experience like ive had but i dont get how you can come away with nothing spiritual from shrooms?


Theres nothing self centered about that, im going to trip now so i need your misunderstood bad vibes


Edited by Chronic7 (02/16/08 11:33 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8031000 - 02/16/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

All i want for everyone is enlightenment, people seem to hate on me for this, and that definatley is a miserable existence.

Of course your version of what enlightenment means, right?

Who hates you Mr. Martyr?

IMO you need a reality check dude.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8031244 - 02/16/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Its not about MY way of thinking, its about realisation of the truth.



How many members of diverse religions say the EXACT SAME THING?

You are not stuck in ego just believe your version of the truth is correct? That is rich.

Quote:

Im not trying to be holier than thou im just telling the truth


.
Try or don't try your words are the very essence of spiritual arrogance. You don't a give a fuck about 'The Truth' only 'your truth'.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8031252 - 02/16/08 01:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I wasnt syaing they have to have an experience like ive had .



Yes you are. Try to be honest here.

Quote:

but i dont get how you can come away with nothing spiritual from shrooms



Your lack of understanding says nothing about anyone else. Try to get that.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8031254 - 02/16/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

For the record can we outline what 'The Truth' is as opposed to 'your truth' somehow??


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8031262 - 02/16/08 01:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

As we are ALL limited beings all any of us can hope to have is little truths. The person who believes his little truth is The Truth is entering dangerous waters.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8031281 - 02/16/08 01:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Tell me about it.
I fuckin drowned.

Just wanted more of what these truths might actually consist of.
Both of them.


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8033830 - 02/17/08 07:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

First of all you made this thread about people experiencing god through psychedelics, i have done this, and my response was who and why people who cling too hard to this outcome push it away from them, and also stated that i dont understand how people who do experience god, then dont recognize it.

Its not about my experience its about the same exact experience through another being, as we are all the same being, being.

Beleive your truth as i beleive THE truth, you have to accept it and just deal with the fact that i beleive whole heartidly in THE truth and will act and speak accordingly as there is no doubt within me about it. Why should i spare your feelings because your not ready for it?

You just have to deal with the fact i believe in something with every fibre of my being and will stand up for it until the day i die, i will not bite my tongue for anyone or anything.

Why should i? Did Jesus or Buddha care about offending peoples beleifs so then just not speak THE truth? (this is not sacreligeous as they taught we are all the same)


You can get offended by what i beleive and call it MY truth, not yours, but whats mine is yours, vice versa, you can sit and fume over it, reply to my posts and flame me for it, call me arrogant, blind, stupid, ignorant, single minded, it does not change anything, it is still THe truth, your just arguing against yourself, i can see how you think this is arrogant, but its totally the opposite thats what you cant seem to comprehend, i have felt the truth as have MANY MANY others have too.

I dont consider myself "special", the simple fact of the matter is i dont need you to beleive me, and thats what makes it so beautifully true, many people agree with me, so even if you dont, life goes on and it always will as that is all there is.


Now go get your knickers in a twist over that partner :grin:


Edited by Chronic7 (02/17/08 07:44 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8033945 - 02/17/08 08:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see how your observation is in any real way substansive of the notion that human learning is a nearly impossible task. Clearly some learning is not applicable in certain experiences. It isn't like learning is difficult or most people are incapable, its just that people entering into a new experience don't have a good frame of reference and what one has read by others, trip reports that probably all say how beyond words the experience was, and they don't know quite what they are in for.

I don't like the notion that the rest of reality is so fatally flawed that we should be like "oh is it nearly impossible?" in such a way. Change takes time dependent on the present state of reality, what has been set into motion and how receptive everyone is to consciously creating change.

Its easy to become stuck in patterns of manifestation and this is clear when one looks at humanity as a whole. Its not nearly impossible for real advancement to take place, its just that change has to be produced first on an individual level, rippling out through reality.

A critical mass has to be established, otherwise the old one keeps propagating itself. If you want to alleviate ignorance, realize wisdom and act in accordance with the nature of reality. It is amazing how quickly it can manifest in the rest of reality. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8033951 - 02/17/08 08:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You just have to deal with the fact i believe in something with every fibre of my being and will stand up for it until the day i die




Sounds exactly like a Jihadist.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8033953 - 02/17/08 08:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You tell them Sexy Butt McDanger :lecture:

:inlove:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8033963 - 02/17/08 08:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
You tell them Sexy Butt McDanger :lecture:

:inlove:




:naughty:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8033973 - 02/17/08 08:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Seems nearly impossible for SOME people to learn how to use PMs...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8033984 - 02/17/08 08:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Seems :smirk:
I'm sure you don't take to account just assumptions. :lol:


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8034015 - 02/17/08 09:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

You just have to deal with the fact i believe in something with every fibre of my being and will stand up for it until the day i die




Sounds exactly like a Jihadist.




Not at all lol, as im not threatenting anyone or anything and i never will, how could i intentionally bring harm to anything when i realise that that very thing is me?

I am am he, as you are he, as your are me, and we are all together.

:peace:


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8034016 - 02/17/08 09:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They just want to declare their love from the rooftops.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034028 - 02/17/08 09:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Let's break this down one more time, shall we?

Quote:

Not at all



Now you know how you come across to me? WTF?


A Mormon is certain of his/her view of how the spiritual world works.

A Christian fundamentalist is certain of his/her view of how the spiritual world works.

A Muslim jihadist certain of his/her view of how the spiritual world works.

YOU are certain of how the spiritual world works.

(Sounds very much the same to me as I previously stated.)


Those differing spiritual views are NOT in aligment with each other yet all are certain. How can that possibly be? :confused: Either most are wrong or ALL are wrong.

Here is the simple answer: EGOCENTRIC SPIRITUAL ARROGANCE.


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8034074 - 02/17/08 09:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I may come across to you as a jihadist, but that NOT AT ALL what it is. I have no control over how you precive my words, and dont want control of it what so ever, the fact you dont have the same beliefs as me doesnt offend me in the slightest.

You should understand that realisation of true essence of spirituality ONLY happens when there is no ego present to be arrogant.

So how can it be Egocentric spiritual arrogance?

We will never agree on this, it seems, but know this, christianity, buddhism, taoist, hindu are ALL right, they all have the same fundamental beliefs when you get down to the nitty gritty.

They are all in alighnment with each other, its the ego based aspect ofit that makes theyre very small differences stand out.

I seem to see the beauty in everything and let it be, you seem to want to pick everything apart. These are both good things.

So lets let each other be and believe in what we feel necessary to live happy fullfilling lives.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034118 - 02/17/08 09:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You can't say that we can detach ourselves from the "ego", the ego is part of who we are and because of it we function into this world. Because of it we are able to tell green light from red light (therefore are able to make a good decision regarding crossing the street :lol:), because of it we can distinguish different aspects of life and so on.
Without it we would be unable to do all that, and you would be unable to have this conversation.
What if instead of "losing the ego" we would use "building a healthy ego"? Sounds more down to earth to me. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034136 - 02/17/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:They are all in alighnment with each other, its the ego based aspect ofit that makes theyre very small differences stand out.




another ego based difference, which isn't quite small, is how people follow scripture rather than their own experience into themselves.

this also goes for learned "truth" from outside sources, factual knowledge that is external and obtained from textbooks. following only this kind of knowledge will take one away from the ability to realize and understand the fact of consciousness and its depths.

the fact of consciousness cannot be externalized materially, objectified or conceptualized. did the bible say this? im sure the buddha said it in some form and the tao definitely displays it (although many still don't get it). but this is one of the most important things to bring into practise along this path, as disregarding it will definitely bring hindrances.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8034140 - 02/17/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:Here is the simple answer: EGOCENTRIC SPIRITUAL ARROGANCE.




is egocentric arrogance not shown in your words?


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: deranger]
    #8034224 - 02/17/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:

chronic777 said:They are all in alighnment with each other, its the ego based aspect ofit that makes theyre very small differences stand out.




another ego based difference, which isn't quite small, is how people follow scripture rather than their own experience into themselves.

this also goes for learned "truth" from outside sources, factual knowledge that is external and obtained from textbooks. following only this kind of knowledge will take one away from the ability to realize and understand the fact of consciousness and its depths.

the fact of consciousness cannot be externalized materially, objectified or conceptualized. did the bible say this? im sure the buddha said it in some form and the tao definitely displays it (although many still don't get it). but this is one of the most important things to bring into practise along this path, as disregarding it will definitely bring hindrances.




most definately, it cant be put in words so words cannot teach the truth, only the experience of within.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034248 - 02/17/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

another thing i forgot to mention is that it is also important (i am sure you're aware of) to always beware there is more to awareness than what we're currently aware of.

this is something i have to bash into my skull at all times, especially when i slack in meditation and get arrogant. human nature right?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8034283 - 02/17/08 11:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

We will never agree on this, it seems, but know this, christianity, buddhism, taoist, hindu are ALL right, they all have the same fundamental beliefs when you get down to the nitty gritty.





Not even close little brother. They are so similar that they kill each other over the differences.

Quote:

I seem to see the beauty in everything and let it be, you seem to want to pick everything apart.



Seeing beauty and decontructing arguments on a board where debate is encouraged have nothing in common and certainly are not polar opposites. Try to make sense.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: deranger]
    #8034287 - 02/17/08 11:10 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No. I am not making a proclamation on the nature of spirit and telling you to accept it as fact, now am I?


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8034332 - 02/17/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i will go along with it...

but what i was mainly trying to get at was most of us are trying to sound "right" in one way or another. this isn't discluding myself, at the time of posting that i thought about how i too was egocentric and arrogant. the vast majority of humans are...


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: deranger]
    #8034378 - 02/17/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Let's compare, shall we?

chronic: If everyone doesn't get the same out of tripping as I do then *blah blah blah* (all judgmental stuff on the nature of other's egos).

As if he was the supreme arbiter on the nature and purpose of tripping. :rolleyes:


OC: Everyone gets something entirely different from tripping. YMMV.


Which position reeks of arrogance?


--------------------


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8034391 - 02/17/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

lol, do i have to choose?!


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: deranger]
    #8034406 - 02/17/08 11:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

As chronic seems to find you more of a kindred spirit than me, perhaps you could explain it to him in a gentler way.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8034436 - 02/17/08 12:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The ego death theory holds that the essence and origin of religion is the use of visionary plants to routinely trigger the intense mystic altered state, producing loose cognitive-association binding, which then produces an experience of being controlled by frozen block-universe determinism with a single, pre-existing, ever-existing future.

Experiencing this model of control and time initially destabilizes self-control power, and amounts to the death of the self that was conceived of as an autonomous control-agent. Self-control stability is restored upon transforming one's mental model to take into account the dependence of personal control on a hidden, separate thought-source, such as Necessity or a divine level that transcends Necessity.

Myth describes this mystic-state experiential insight and transformation. Religious initiation teaches and causes this transformation of the self considered as a control-agent, through a series of visionary-plant sessions, interspersed with study of perennial philosophy. Most modern-era religion has been a distortion of this standard initiation system, reducing these concepts to a weak interpretation that is based in the ordinary state of consciousness. The ego death theory is, specifically, the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence, and it incorporates the entheogen theory of religion.

www.egodeath.com

Transcending the ego??


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8034490 - 02/17/08 12:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:snub:


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8034494 - 02/17/08 12:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the mobile page is great

http://www.egodeath.com/mobile.htm


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8035604 - 02/17/08 09:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Seems nearly impossible for SOME people to learn how to use PMs...




:emocry:

Would you like me to teach you how to use PMs, to spare us all of the flirting you inflict upon us? :strokebeard:

I mean, I know that a :naughty: is the end of the world and everything, and is so disruptive of this thought-provoking thread, but it doesn't make sense to overreact to something that one is a shameless advocate of. :lol:

:cuckoo:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8035686 - 02/17/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I am am he, as you are he, as your are me, and we are all together.

you are the walrus.:eek:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Icelander]
    #8035706 - 02/17/08 10:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Koo koo - ACHOO!


--------------------


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8036687 - 02/18/08 05:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Bless you!


--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8037793 - 02/18/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Let's compare, shall we?

chronic: If everyone doesn't get the same out of tripping as I do then *blah blah blah* (all judgmental stuff on the nature of other's egos).

As if he was the supreme arbiter on the nature and purpose of tripping. :rolleyes:


OC: Everyone gets something entirely different from tripping. YMMV.


Which position reeks of arrogance?




You still dont understand me and it seems you never will, i beleive everyone gets somehitng different out of tripping as every trip is different, yet it leads to the same place.

Again you think that i think im supreme or something, just because i beleive what i beleive  whole heartidly, and that i wish others to experience this, so that makes me out to be arrogant.

I am not saying everyone should experience what i have but i wish it for them as the experience is being everything, not ME! everything!!!

How could i not want this for others?

You really need to understand i am not arrogant, i want everything in the world for you and everyone and you call me arrogant. Thanks.

Im not telling you tom think anything im stating my beliefs and standing up for them, you call this arrogance, which is quite arrogant of you!

I see EVERYTHING as equal, we are all the same thing in essence.

That is incredibly humbling, not arrogant.

You cant just make up things that you think i said and quote me onit lol.


orgoneconclusion "im full of arrogance"
now i quoted you does that make it true?


i can not see how my beleifs when theyre so down to earth and based in religeon such as the Tao and buddhism, inspiure you to call me arrogant.

This thread was about experiencing the divine through entheogens, and that is what i have talked about, my beliefs in experiencing the divine thru entheogens.

It seems strange you such a problem with it when you made the thread!!!


Edited by Chronic7 (02/18/08 12:56 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038186 - 02/18/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

This thread was about experiencing the divine through entheogens,




No, it was about learning. As usual you make things up then declare them true.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038196 - 02/18/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Once you release right intention to the universe eventually your intention shall be fullfilled, the length of time this takes is dependent on how hard your clinging to the outcome.

This to me is a simple fact that once mastered (i am by NO means ANYWHERE near mastering this) can bring you everything you rightly intend for yourself.




This is tripe borrowed from "The Secret". There is nothing factual about it.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038269 - 02/18/08 02:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the secret is a lame way of trying to present people a reality that they can realize on their own. the law of attraction is very real


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038391 - 02/18/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

This thread was about experiencing the divine through entheogens,




No, it was about learning. As usual you make things up then declare them true.




You also talked about people who want to experience god thru entheogens.

Your so funny OC, i dont make things up.

If i did id come up with something more extravagant like tell you there is a heaven and hell, and your going to hell.

Thats made up. (although you could end up in a hell realm seeing as you beleive in nothing but yourself, which is just an impermanent body of elements, you do not yet know your true self)

And yes i told you that, something about yourself, i told you about!
I TOLD YOU SOMETHING ABOUT YOURSELF!!!!

Oh noooo......... go get offended Mr Ego :grin:


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038417 - 02/18/08 03:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

woops


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #8038427 - 02/18/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the law of attraction is very real




Sorry, but there is no 'law' and every one tested on this BS fails miserably as with all mystic mumbo-jumbo. As per usual, I will wager my money on this.


--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038441 - 02/18/08 03:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What is this "test" you speak of?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038452 - 02/18/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Make a specific magical claim then I will devise a test based upon your alleged powers. Simple.


--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038475 - 02/18/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Alleged powers?

I dont have any mystical powers except that of my own karma, and fellow human being to fellow human being, if you dont beleive in karma, your about to be a very rare, soon to be extinct species.

Even Einstein believed in Karma.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038616 - 02/18/08 03:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Does anyone here read the stickied threads?

Quote:

Even Einstein believed in Karma.




Who here can explain to chronic what logical fallacy this is? Of course, it would be best if chronic could tell us.


--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038651 - 02/18/08 04:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

lol hook line and sinker

every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction is what i meant


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038681 - 02/18/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So you want to participate in this forum and refuse to read the Fallacies thread? Wonderful. Fear of learning?


--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038694 - 02/18/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I dont understand, what do you want me to read?
Im willing to read anything you throw my way buddy, as long as it isnt war and peace length!


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038738 - 02/18/08 04:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I threw it your way twice. What part of stickied thread on Logical Fallacies was over your head?

The Fallacies of Philsophical Debate

More spoon-feeding... :rolleyes:


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038777 - 02/18/08 04:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

dude you have yet to spoon feed me ANY knowledge that has been useful to me or that i already didnt know.


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8038798 - 02/18/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Are you going to read it and answer my question?


--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8038853 - 02/18/08 04:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

answer your quesiton?

yes i have no fear of learning!


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8039336 - 02/18/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you're right, there is no law. it's just common sense.


--------------------


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Re: Learning and Trip Reports [Re: Chronic7]
    #8039501 - 02/18/08 06:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Last year we had some of that thick white-on-white blotter going around my (small) town. It was from a former resident and he was bringing it up as more of a favor than anything. I dropped 2 and tripped nuts. So, there's this kid that's never been the brightest, he was never out of the sped classes in High School, and he decided he wanted to get fucked up. He'd never tripped before this. Some jerk-off sold him 5 hits. From what I heard he took one, waited 20 minutes then took the other 4. He was in the hospital for the night, and it's no secret that he talked to the cops. Thanks jackass, no more white-on-white in this town anymore.


--------------------
"What a beautiful face I have found in this place that is circling all round the sun,
and when we meet on a cloud
I'll be laughing out loud,
I'll be laughing at everyone I see,
Can't believe, how strange it is to be anything at all..."

"...nobody has yet died of amazement & you always come back to planet Earth..."


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