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OfflineJTB22
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Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water
    #8027019 - 02/15/08 12:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Fluoride is now being recognized as very dangerous. There is no longer any reasonable doubt that drinking it is a bad idea. In November 2006 the American Dental Association reversed itself and said that the ingestion of fluoride is too dangerous for babies. There are several other fluoride risks, too, including that it is carcinogenic.

However, most information that we have been able to find is clear in the opinion that fluoride causes health problems through ingestion, not through showering or bathing. These sources say that fluoride, unlike chlorine, is not released into the water and air as a gas. It travels through water as part of a metallic compound, and doesn't release into the air like chlorine. The people who sell activated alumina for water filters, and the manufacturer, both firmly believe that fluoride is not absorbed through the skin by showering or bathing.

However, we have heard from customers who report that bathing or showering causes them serious health problems. And we have found one informed source who reports that fluoride in showering and bathing causes many serious health issues. We continue to research this issue, and will continue to update the website as we learn more.

Please however, be very careful about claims that you can get a whole-house system at a cost in the hundreds of dollars that will remove fluoride and last for a couple of years. This simply isn't true. It costs a great deal to remove fluoride from the whole house. Call us if you would like to discuss this. Water filter systems that seem cheap compared to others are cheap because they won't do the job over time.

There are no shower or bath filters that remove fluoride. It's very hard to remove and there is not sufficient time that the water is in contact with the filter media to remove fluoride.

There is a more affordable solution if you feel you need to remove fluoride from your bath water - and that is to have a plumber insert a fluoride-removing filter by putting it into your bathroom plumbing line.

http://www.friendsofwater.com/Shower_Filters.html

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8027243 - 02/15/08 01:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water, when even the USDA agrees it's dangerous?


http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/fluoride.htm

Provided by: Kraig and Shirley Carroll

Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl Fluoride).

Sodium fluoride, a hazardous-waste by-product from the manufacture of aluminum, is a common ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, anesthetics, hypnotics, psychiatric drugs, and military nerve gas. It’s historically been quite expensive to properly dispose of, until some aluminum industries with an overabundance of the stuff sold the public on the terrifically insane but highly profitable idea of buying it at a 20,000% markup, injecting in into our water supplies, and then DRINKING it.

Yes, 20,000% markup: Fluoride – intended only for human consumption by people under 14 years of age – is injected into our drinking water supply at approx. 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink ½ of one percent of the total water supply, the rest literally goes down the drain as a free hazardous-waste disposal for the chemical industry, where we PAY them so that we can flush their expensive hazardous waste down our toilets. How many salesman dream of such a deal? (Follow the money.)

Independent scientific evidence repeatedly showing up over the past 50 years reveals that fluoride allegedly shortens our life span, promotes cancer and various mental disturbances, accelerates osteoporosis and broken hips in old folks, and makes us stupid, docile, and subservient, all in one package. There are reports of aluminum in the brain possibly being a causative factor in Alzheimer’s Disease, and evidence points towards fluoride’s strong affinity for aluminum and also its ability to "trick" the blood-brain barrier by looking like the hydrogen ion, and thus allowing chemical access to brain tissue.

Scientists who have attempted to blow the whistle on this mega-bucks PR ploy have consistently been given a very unscientific Black-PR treatment, and thus their valid points disputing the current vested interests never arrive in the press. Follow the money to find the control. In 1952 the slick PR campaign which ramrodded the concept of fluoridation through via our Public Health departments and various dental organizations was likened to a highly-emotional "beer-salesman’s convention" instead of the objective scientific experiment which it should properly have been. It’s continued in that vein right up to present time. To illustrate the emotional vs. the scientific nature of this issue, just look at the response given by people (perhaps yourself included?) when the subject of fluoridation comes up. Ask yourself, "Is this response EMOTIONAL BLUSTER, or is it UNBIASED AND OPENLY - INTERESTED OBJECTIVITY?" There is a tremendous amount of emotional, highly unscientific know-it-all! attached to fluoridation. Many truly independent (unattached to any vested-interest) scientists who’ve spent a large portion of their lives studying and working with this subject have been subjected to a surprising amount of uncalled-for and unfair character assassination from strong vested-interest groups who profit from the public’s ignorance as well as from their illnesses. (Follow the money.)

Do you have diabetes or kidney disease? There are reportedly more than 11 million Americans with diabetes. Since many diabetics drink more liquids than other people, then according to the Physicians Desk Reference these 11 million Americans probably shouldn’t drink fluoridated water, because in doing so, they’ll receive an excessive dose of fluoride.

Kidney disease, by definition, lowers the efficiency of the kidneys, which is your main route of fluoride elimination. – So those people with kidney disease also shouldn’t drink fluoridated water. Cases are on record (Annapolis, Maryland, 1979) where kidney patients on dialysis machines died, due to fluoride overdose in the city water supply. Let’s begin at the beginning:

The first occurrence of fluoridated drinking water on Earth was found in Germany’s Nazi prison camps. The Gestapo had little concern about fluoride’s supposed effect on children’s teeth; their alleged reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to sterilize humans and force the people in their concentration camps into calm submission. (Ref. book: "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" by Joseph Borkin.)

The following letter was received by the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, on 2 October 1954, from Mr. Charles Perkins, a chemist:

"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, The Truth About Water Fluoridation, to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff." In the 1930's , Hitler and the German Nazi’s envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place...

Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual’s power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient light lobotomy]

The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children’s teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty.

When the Nazis under Hitler decided to go into Poland, both the German General Staff and the Russian General Staff exchanged scientific and military ideas, plans, and personnel, and the scheme of mass control through water medication was seized upon by the Russian Communists because it fitted ideally into their plan to communize the world...

I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great IG Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years’ research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine – any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically." Charles E. Perkins, Chemist, 2 October 1954.

_______________________

Quoting Einsein’s nephew, Dr. E.H. Bronner ( a chemist who had also been a prisoner of war during WWII) in a letter printed in The Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:

"It appears that the citizens of Massachusetts are among the ‘next’ on the agenda of the water poisoners.

There is a sinister network of subversive agents, Godless ‘intellectual’ parasites, working in our country today whose ramifications grow more extensive, more successful and more alarming each new year and whose true objective is to demoralize, paralyze and destroy our great Republic – from within if they can, according to their plan – for their own possession. The tragic success they have already attained in their long siege to destroy the moral fiber of American life is now one of their most potent footholds towards their own ultimate victory over us.

Fluoridation of our community water systems can well become their most subtle weapon for our sure physical and mental deterioration...

As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years, 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health-food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. Don’t do it.

"Even in the small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found. Every exterminator knows that it is the most efficient rat-killer. ...Sodium fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God’s great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body, whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it. Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting ‘dental health,’ fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth, before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How can it be called a "health" plan? What’s behind it? That any so-called "doctors" would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal insanity. No wonder Hitler and Stalin fully believed and agreed from 1939 to 1941 that, quoting from both Lenin’s Last Will and Hitler’s Mein Kampf: "America we shall demoralize, divide, and destroy from within."...

Are our Civil Defense organizations and agencies awake to the perils of water poisoning by fluoridation? Its use has been recorded in other countries. Sodium fluoride water solutions are the cheapest and most effective rat killers known to chemists: colorless, odorless, tasteless; no antidote, no remedy, no hope: Instant and complete extermination of rats...

Fluoridation of water systems can be slow national suicide, or quick national liquidation. It is criminal insanity – treason!" DR. E. H. Bronner, Mfg. Research Chemist, Los Angeles.

____________________________

Earliest available Russian fluoride evidence:

"I, Oliver Kenneth Goff, was a member of the Communist Party and the Young Communist League, from May 2, 1936, to October 9, 1939. During this period of time, I operated under the alias of John Keats with number 18-B-2. My testimony before the Government is in Volume 9 of the Un-American Activities Report for 1939.

While a member of the Communist Party, I attended Communist training schools in New York and Wisconsin...and we were trained in the revolutionary overthrow of the U.S. Government. ...We discussed quite thoroughly the fluoridation of water supplies and how we were using it in Russia as a tranquilizer in the prison camps. The leaders of our school felt that if it could be induced into the American water supply, it would bring about a spirit of lethargy in the nation, where it could keep the general public docile during a steady encroachment of Communism. We also discussed the fact that keeping a store of deadly fluoride near the water reservoir would be advantageous during the time of the revolution, as it would give us opportunity to dump this poison into the water supply and either kill off the populace or threaten them with liquidation, so that they would surrender to obtain fresh water.

___________________________

Related Research:

The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben by Joseph Borkin (out of print book search)

Health Effects of Ingested Fluoride by Bernard Meyer Wagner

Fluoridation: The Great Dilemma by George L. Waldbott

Fluoride the Aging Factor: How to Recognize and Avoid the Devastating Effects of Fluoride by John, Dr. Yiamouyiannis

Scientific Knowledge in Controversy: The Social Dynamics of the Fluoridation Debate by Brian Martin

Medical Mafia by Guylaine Lanctot

Racketeering in Medicine by James P. Carter

The Cure for All Diseases by Dr. Hulda Regehr Clark

Censured for Curing Cancer: The American Experience of Dr. Max Gerson by S.J. Haught

And special thanks to Kraig and Shirley Carroll in the hills of SE Kentucky. http://www.thehavens.com / thehavens@highland.net 606-376-3363


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8029511 - 02/15/08 10:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl Fluoride).




I'm against water fluoridation as a matter of consumer choice, and unknown consequences, but the above statement is fucking ridiculous.

Floride is not a basic ingredient in either, and while fluorine is an element in those compounds, this means nothing.


Hydrogen and oxygen are also in both those compounds, oh no! These are the only "ingredients" in water!!

Lets stop adding water to water... for the children

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8029876 - 02/16/08 01:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:

i am against fluoridation as well. i refuse to drink tap water.


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InvisibleBaeosistine
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: LeftyBurnz] * 1
    #8030170 - 02/16/08 05:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am totally against fluoridation and try to minimise my fluoride intake. However the anti-fluoridation lobby has been infiltrated by conspiracy loonies and madmen, and some of the shit they come up with provides plentiful ammunition for the pro-fluoridists
:crankey:


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jesus

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OfflineJTB22
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8030512 - 02/16/08 09:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JTB22 said:
we have found one informed source who reports that fluoride in showering and bathing causes many serious health issues. We continue to research this issue, and will continue to update the website as we learn more.



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OfflineJTB22
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8030535 - 02/16/08 09:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Taking showers is a health risk, according to research presented last week in a meeting of the American Chemical Society. Showers — and to a lesser extent baths — lead to a greater exposure to toxic chemicals contained in water supplies than does drinking water. The chemicals evaporate out of the water and are inhaled.

New Scientist, 18 September 1986, Ian Anderson

A Professor of Water Chemistry at the University of Pittsburgh claims that exposure to vaporized chemicals in the water supplies through showering, bathing, and inhalation is 100 times greater than through drinking the water.

The Nader Report, Troubled Waters on Tap, Center for Study of Responsive Law

[consuming water by drinking it] may not constitute the sole or even primary route of exposure.

American Journal of-Public Health, Dr. Halina Brown

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8030694 - 02/16/08 10:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)



Mandrake, bring me a drink of grain alcohol and rain water!


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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OfflineJoseLibrado
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8032266 - 02/16/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hey guys

One more tidbit of info would be to recognize that Aluminun industries main By-product is a flouride compound or flouride itself, i dont remember which one. Meaning that it is one a by-product they either have to pay someone dispose of it which would cause a serious amount of money to outflow from their profits.

By alluminum industry, recognize that there is actually one alluminum company in Canada and USA, which owns most of the alluminum mines in the world.

I dont care much to do any research right now, but when i realize that there is profits involved, the truth about what most likely is going on, directs my logic towards distrust for the companies.


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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

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OfflinePolyrhythmanaut
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #8032618 - 02/16/08 08:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i heard james arthur say that flouride is like a magnet to the human pineal gland. Anyone know the studies that may have concluded that? I would love to read it.

Im not saying its true, or trying to spread bad info, im merely stating that James Arthur did say it on an interview that you can find on you tube...maybe coast to coast am with noorey or bell.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Polyrhythmanaut]
    #8032878 - 02/16/08 09:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i know that the nazis fed it to their concentration camp prisoners as a way to make them lethargic and unwilling to fight back. :shrug:


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8034799 - 02/17/08 01:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

whose awesome idea was it to make fluoride in everyone's tap water? why not give them that choice, and just give everyone some normal, natural stuff?

I mean, yeah its good for your teeth, but it isn't up to anyone what my teeth look like but me. Screw off dental association.


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Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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OfflineJTB22
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Drewwyann]
    #8035474 - 02/17/08 09:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Drewwyann said:
I mean, yeah its good for your teeth, but it isn't up to anyone what my teeth look like but me. Screw off dental association.




A lot of people claim it's even bad for your teeth! It's just such a gradual poison they can get away with saying anything about it and continue to poison us.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8036520 - 02/18/08 02:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

ehh, no, it's good for your teeth


but putting an unnecessary substance into water isn't cool

I don't know if its really bad for you or not, but these things are always on a spectrum, who knows if the low levels are enough to effect you in ways other than your bones/teeth

it all comes down to govenrment/society knowing best, and I don't care for that even if its a pragmatic choice

at least you aren't forced to consume the water. I don't know what people who object to it do though, other than bottled water.

I'd imagine your water would suck being distilled if you went that route

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8036523 - 02/18/08 02:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

its good in small amounts and when NOT swallowed. whoever thought it was a good idea to put it in something you drink was an idiot.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Drewwyann]
    #8280485 - 04/14/08 12:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Drewwyann said:
whose awesome idea was it to make fluoride in everyone's tap water? why not give them that choice, and just give everyone some normal, natural stuff?

I mean, yeah its good for your teeth, but it isn't up to anyone what my teeth look like but me. Screw off dental association.




Read The Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson

if you really want to know who.

two world wars and the advances in metal smelting produced huge amounts of waste fluoride.
corporations anticipated lawsuits from factory workers and farmers near factories who suffered serious effects from production and waste.
so with help from key figures in government they decided they better find a way to convince the public that toxic waste was barely harmful and in fact so good for us that we should consume it every day.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #8280895 - 04/14/08 03:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
:lol:

i am against fluoridation as well. i refuse to drink tap water.




And yet you're still drinking fluoridated water.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8280925 - 04/14/08 04:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

People don't seem docile to me. They seem as violent and rebellious as ever. So i don't think fluoride is a mind control agent.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: DimensionX]
    #8280993 - 04/14/08 05:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
People don't seem docile to me. They seem as violent and rebellious as ever. So i don't think fluoride is a mind control agent.




Drink distilled water only for a month then come back and tell me that nukka. You feel as alive and full of energy as you were as a kid.


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8281026 - 04/14/08 06:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ill give it a go. I saw these big tubs of water in the supermarket. They have no chemicals in them at all, not even chlorine. Its just pure water.

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: DimensionX]
    #8281041 - 04/14/08 06:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Now just avoid breathing in sodium fluoride when showering. Bath's are not much better, especially if hot.

It's good for the teeth. I'm told that replacing tooth enamel with a carcinogen will make them stronger (and more brittle, and will rot them from the inside out, but fuck hey, colgate said so, so it must be true. Marketing never lies). K, but is it worth the IQ reduction to do it?

link

Fluoride's Neurological Effects: studies show there may be grave implications for
Alzheimers, Dementia, Attention Deficit Disorder, reduced IQ in children

Neurotoxicity of fluoride, Fluoride, 1996, 29:2, 57-58 (Editorial by AWB and JC)

The August 1995 issue of this journal contained an abstract (pages 151-152) of an interesting paper by Dr Phyllis Mullenix and her collaborators.1 They recorded behavioral changes in rats after ingestion of fluoride, and found that the severity of the effect on behavior increased directly with plasma fluoride levels and fluoride concentration in specific brain regions. A reading of the full paper is well worthwhile. In their Introduction, after referring to the increase in dental fluorosis in humans after decades of water fluoridation, the authors comment:

"One concern that has not been fully investigated is the link between fluoride and effects an the central nervous system (CNS).... Many years of ubiquitous fluoride exposure have not resulted in obvious CNS problems such as seizures, lethargy, salivation, tremors, paralysis, or sensory deficits. Still unexplored, however, is the possibility that fluoride exposure is linked with subtle brain dysfunction."

The carefully designed animal experiment which they report revealed subtle but very real changes in behavior patterns following fluoride ingestion: hyperactivity after prenatal exposure, and cognitive deficits after weanling and adult exposure. Fluoride accumulation in important regions of the rat brain, especially the hippocampus, was found to increase as the drinking water fluoride levels increased. These effects, and the sex differences observed, corresponded to those observed in other studies of hippocampal brain damage.

The authors point out that the plasma fluoride levels recorded in the rats were the same as those sometimes recorded in humans - for example, in children one hour after receiving topical fluoride treatment of their teeth. In their conclusion calling for further rat and human studies they state:

"Experience with other developmental neurotoxicants prompt expectations that changes in behavioral function will be comparable across species, especially humans and rats. Of course behaviors per se do not extrapolate, but a generic behavioral pattern disruption as found in this rat study can be indicative of a potential for motor dysfunction, IQ deficits and/or learning disabilities in humans."

The authors draw attention to reports from Chinese investigators that high levels of fluoride in drinking water (3-11 ppm) affect the central nervous system directly without first causing the physical deformations of skeletal fluorosis.2-4 Readers of Fluoride will recall the recent (November 1995) research report from China indicating adverse neurological effects on the brain from fluoride exposure.5 This work also suggested that children with dental fluorosis are at greater risk of decreased mental acuity. One can only wonder whether the effects of fluoridated water might extend beyond the appearance of the teeth and include neurotoxicity among children afflicted with dental fluorosis.

Some of our readers may recall also pertinent early clinical findings reported by our founding editor, Dr G L Waldbott, of which Dr Mullenix and her co-workers do not appear to have been aware. These involved a wide range of reversible toxic effects of fluoridated drinking water, including diminished mental acuity and impairment of memory.6-8 In a separate report, Dr Waldbott even gave an account, supported by laboratory data, of a case of tetaniform convulsions induced by drinking fluoridated drinking water.9 For decades proponents of water fluoridation have questioned the validity of these reports without, however, offering objective evidence to refute them. But in the light of the human research in China and now the animal research in the United States, these clinical observations by Dr Waldbott on the neurotoxicity of fluoride in drinking water clearly deserve greater attention and credence. [references not scanned]

Jaqueline Calderon, Machado Blenda, Navarro Marielena, Carrizales Leticia, Ortiz Maria Deogracias, Diaz-Barriga F. Influence of Fluoride Exposure on Reaction Time and Visuospatial Organization in Children, Epidemiology July 2000, Volume 11, Number 4 Supplement S153.

Fluoride exposure is an important public health problem in several Mexican states. In the city of San Luis Potosi, Mexico, above 90% of the children have some degree of dental fluorosis. The main source of exposure to fluoride is tap water. The objective of the study was to evaluate the influence of chronic exposure to fluoride on neuropsychological development in children. Sixty-one children aged 6 to 8 years were included. Fluoride concentration in tap water ranged from 1.2 to 3 mg/L. Fluoride exposure was measured in urine samples by electrothermal ion selective method. Blood lead (PbB) was measured as indicator of lead exposure by atomic absorption spectrophotometry. Height for age index (HAI) was calculated as indicator of past nutritional status. Three tests were used to evaluate the neuropsychological development: (1) Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children Revisited version for Mexico (WISC-RM), (2) Rey Osterrelth-Complex Figure test and (3) Continuos Performance Test (CPT). Mean value of fluoride in urine was 4.3 mgF/g creatinine (1.6-10.8). Mean PhB value was 6.2 ug/dl (2.0-15.6). After controlling by significant confounders, urinary fluoride correlated positively with reaction time and inversely with the scores in visuospatial organization. IQ scores were not influenced by fluoride exposure. An increase in reaction time could affect the attention process, also the low scores in visuospatial organization could be affecting the reading and writing abilities in these children.

University of North Caroline. Email: Jaqueline.Calderon@sph-unc.edu

Guan ZZ, Wang YN, Xiao KQ, Dai DY, Chen YH, Liu JL, Sindelar P, Dallner G, Influence of chronic fluorosis on membrane lipids in rat brain. Neurotoxicol Teratol 1998 Sep-Oct;20(5):537-42

Brain membrane lipid in rats were analyzed after being fed either 30 or 100 ppm fluoride for 3, 5, and 7 months. The protein content of brain with fluorosis decreased, whereas the DNA content remained stable during the entire period of investigation. After 7 months of fluoride treatment, the total brain phospholipid content decreased by 10% and 20% in the 30 and 100 ppm fluoride groups, respectively. The main species of phospholipid influenced by fluorosis were phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphatidylcholine, and phosphatidylserine. The fatty acid and aldehyde compositions of individual phospholipid classes were unchanged. No modifications could be detected in the amounts of cholesterol and dolichol. After 3 months of fluoride treatment, ubiquinone contents in brain were lower; however, at 7 months they were obviously increased in both groups of fluoride treatment. The results demonstrate that the contents of phospholipid and ubiquinone are modified in brains affected by chronic fluorosis and these changes of membrane lipids could be involved in the pathogenesis of this disease.

Department of Pathology, Guiyang Medical College, Guizhou, China. jialiul@public.gy.gz.cn

Jope RS, Modulation of phosphoinositide hydrolysis by NaF and aluminum in rat cortical slices. J Neurochem 1988 Dec;51(6):1731-6

NaF stimulated phosphoinositide hydrolysis in rat cortical slices. The production of [3H]inositol monophosphate was rapid for the first 15 min of incubation with NaF, followed by a plateau. The major product detected was [3H]inositol monophosphate, although significant amounts of [3H]inositol bisphosphate and [3H]inositol trisphosphate were also produced. The stimulation of [3H]inositol monophosphate production by NaF was concentration dependent between 2 and 20 mM NaF. Addition of 10 or 100 microM AlCl3 or aluminum maltol did not alter the effect of NaF, whereas at 500 microM, these aluminum preparations resulted in significant inhibition. Increasing the concentration of K+ from 5 to 20 mM potentiated [3H]inositol monophosphate production induced by carbachol but not by NaF. Incubation with 1 microM phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate, a phorbol ester, inhibited carbachol-induced, but not NaF-induced, [3H]inositol monophosphate production. These results further support the hypothesis that a guanine nucleotide binding protein that can be activated by NaF is involved in phosphoinositide hydrolysis in brain. The use of NaF provides a means to bypass receptors to study intracellular regulatory sites of phosphoinositide metabolism without disrupting cells.

Department of Pharmacology and Neuropsychiatry Research Program, University of Alabama, Birmingham.

Kay AR, Miles R, Wong RK, Intracellular fluoride alters the kinetic properties of calcium currents facilitating the investigation of synaptic events in hippocampal neurons. J Neurosci 1986 Oct;6(10):2915-20

We have attempted to suppress voltage-dependent conductances in hippocampal neurons by introducing various intracellular agents. Voltage-clamp studies were carried out using acutely dissociated hippocampal neurons from adult guinea pigs. Synaptic events were examined using intracellular recordings in the slice preparation. Sodium conductance was suppressed when the quaternary lidocaine derivative QX 314 was introduced intracellularly. Potassium conductances were blocked by intracellular cesium or Tris. We also found that the anion fluoride could affect calcium conductance by an intracellular action. When anions other than fluoride were used for intracellular recordings, the voltage-dependent calcium current inactivated slowly and showed persistent activation at membrane potentials between -40 and -10 mV. In contrast, when fluoride was present intracellularly, the inactivation kinetics of the calcium current were accelerated and the persistent component of the current was largely suppressed. Intracellular recordings in the hippocampal slice showed that when electrodes contained cesium, QX 314, and fluoride, the spiking and nonlinear responses of the neuronal membrane to depolarization were blocked. In these conditions the time course and voltage-dependence of EPSPs could be examined in detail without complications due to voltage-dependent currents of the postsynaptic cell.

Li Y, Li X, Wei S, Effect of excessive fluoride intake on mental work capacity of children and a preliminary study of its mechanism, Hua Hsi I Ko Ta Hsueh Hsueh Pao,1994 Jun, 25 :2, 188-191 (Translated from Chinese)

We made an investigation in 157 children, aged 12-13, born and grew up in a coal burning pattern endemic fluorosis area and an experiment on excessive fluoride intake in rat. The results showed: (1) Excessive fluoride intake since early childhood would reduce mental work capacity (MWC) and hair zinc content: (2) The effect on zinc metabolism was a mechanism of influence on MWC by excessive fluoride intake; (3) Excessive fluoride intake decreased 5-hydroxy indole acetic acid and increased norepinephrine in rat brain; whether this is also a mechanism of the influence on MWC awaits confirmation.

Li XS, Zhi JL, Gao RO, Effect of Fluoride Exposure on Intelligence in Children, Fluoride, 1995 Nov, 28:4, pp 189-192

The intelligence was measured of 907 children aged 8-13 years living in areas which differed in the amount of fluoride present in the environment. The Intelligence Quotient (IQ) of children living in areas with a medium or severe prevalence of fluorosis was lower than that of children living in areas with only a slight fluorosis or no fluorosis. The development of intelligence appeared to be adversely affected by fluoride in the areas with a medium or severe prevalence of fluorosis but to a minor extent only in areas with only a slight prevalence of fluorosis. A high fluoride intake was associated with a lower intelligence. No correlation was found between age and intelligence in the areas with a medium and severe prevalence of fluorosis. The effect of exposure to a high level of fluoride on intelligence may occur at an early stage of development of the embryo and infant when the differentiation of brain nerve cells is occurring and development is most rapid.

Liu WX, Experimental study of behavior and cerebral morphology of rat pups generated by fluorotic female rat, Chung-hua Ping Li Hsueh Tsa Chih, 1989 Dec, 18:4, 290-292 (Article in Chinese)

In order to study the effects of fluoride on the central nervous system, 33-42-day old rat pups generated by three groups of female Wistar rats, which were given distilled water containing 0, 30 and 60 ppm NaF respectively beforehand as drinking water for 85 days, were used for behavior test and cerebral morphological examination. The results of behavior test showed that the latent period of pain reaction and that of conditioned reflex in the 30 ppm F and 60 ppm F groups were longer than that in the control group (P less than 0.05 or P less than 0.01). morphological examination of the pup brains showed that the nerve cell density of the 60 ppm F group was higher than that of the control group (P less than 0.05). Electronmicroscopically, mild degeneration of organelles of the nerve cells was observed in those brains of the 60 ppm F group.

Masters RD and Coplan M, Study finds correlation between fluorides in water and lead levels, Dartmouth College News Release, and Poisoning the Well: Neurotoxic Metals, Water Treatment, and Human Behavior - Plenary Address to the Annual Conference of the Association for Politics and the Life Sciences

Mattsson JL, Albee RR, Eisenbrandt DL Chang LW, Subchronic neurotoxicity in rats of the structural fumigant, sulfuryl fluoride, Neurotoxicol-Teratol, 1988 Mar-Apr, 10:2, 127-133

Inhalation exposure of male and female Fischer 344 rats to sulfuryl fluoride [Vikane (Dow Chemical Company) gas fumigant] at 300 ppm for 6 hr/day, 5 days week, for 13 weeks caused diminished wight gain, dental fluorosis, a slight decrease in grooming, decreased flicker fusion threshold, slowing of flash, auditory and somatosensory evoked potentials, mild nasal and pulmonary inflammation, mild kidney effects, and mild vacuolation in the brain. Auditory brainstem responses (ABRs) and brain histology were evaluated two months postexposure in 2 male and 2 female rats. Both the ABRs and brain histology were within normal limits at this time, indicating that these treatment effects were, to at least a great extent, reversible. Exposure to 100 ppm resulted in dental fluorosis and very minor slowing of some evoked responses; all other measures, including brain histology, were normal. No treatment effects were noted at 30 ppm.

Mullenix PJ, Denbesten PK, Schunior A, Kernan WJ, Neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride in rats, Neurotoxicology Teratology, 1995 March,17(2):169-177.

Fluoride (F) is known to affect mineralizing tissues, but effects upon the developing brain have not been previously considered. This study in Sprague-Dawley rats compares behavior, body weight, plasma and brain F levels after sodium fluoride (NaF) exposures during late gestation, at weaning or in adults. For prenatal exposures, dams received injections (SC) of 0.13 mg/kg NaF or saline on gestational days 14-18 or 17-19. Weanlings received drinking water containing 0, 75, 100, or 125 ppm F for 6 or 20 weeks, and 3 month-old adults received water containing 100 ppm F for 6 weeks. Behavior was tested in a computer pattern recognition system that classified acts in a novel environment and quantified act initiations, total times and time structures. Fluoride exposures caused sex- and dose-specific behavioral deficits with a common pattern. Males were most sensitive to prenatal day 17-19 exposure, whereas females were more sensitive to weanling and adult exposures. After fluoride ingestion, the severity of the effect on behavior increased directly with plasma F levels and F concentrations in specific brain regions. Such association is important considering that plasma levels in this rat model (0.059 to 0.640 ppm F) are similar to those reported in humans exposed to high levels of fluoride. [emphasis added]

See also brain2.htm by Dr. P.J. Mullenix

Spittle B, Psychopharmacology of fluoride: a review, Int Clin Psychopharmacol, 9:2, 1994 Summer, 79-82

Although the blood-brain barrier is relatively impermeable to fluoride, it does not pose an absolute barrier and fluoride has the ability to enter the brain. The literature was examined to assess the quality of the evidence for cerebral impairment occurring due to exposure to fluoride from therapeutic or environmental sources. Several surveys of persons chronically exposed to industrial fluoride pollution reported symptoms related to impaired central nervous system functioning with impaired cognition and memory. Examination of individual case reports showed the evidence for aetiological relationships between symptoms and fluoride exposure to be of variable quality. The evidence was seen as being suggestive of a relationship rather than being definitive. The difficulties with concentration and memory described in relation to exposure to fluoride did not occur in isolation but were accompanied by other symptoms of which general malaise and fatigue were central. Possible mechanisms whereby fluoride could affect brain function include influencing calcium currents, altering enzyme configuration by forming strong hydrogen bonds with amide groups, inhibiting cortical adenylyl cyclase activity and increasing phosphoinositide hydrolysis.

[editor's note: this review was published before Mullenix et al., completed their ground-breaking study. The blood-brain barrier is penetrated by fluoride]


Strunecká A, Patoèka J, Pharmacological implications of aluminofluoride complexes, a review of the evidence for pathophysiological effects of aluminium and fluoride on living organism
Varner JA, Jensen KF, Horvath W, Isaacson RL, Chronic administration of aluminum-fluoride or sodium-fluoride to rats in drinking water: alterations in neuronal and cerebrovascular integrity. Brain Res 1998 Feb 16;784(1-2):284-98

This study describes alterations in the nervous system resulting from chronic administration of the fluoroaluminum complex (AlF3) or equivalent levels of fluoride (F) in the form of sodium-fluoride (NaF). Twenty seven adult male Long-Evans rats were administered one of three treatments for 52 weeks: the control group was administered double distilled deionized drinking water (ddw). The aluminum-treated group received ddw with 0.5 ppm AlF3 and the NaF group received ddw with 2.1 ppm NaF containing the equivalent amount of F as in the AlF3 ddw. Tissue aluminum (Al) levels of brain, liver and kidney were assessed with the Direct Current Plasma (DCP) technique and its distribution assessed with Morin histochemistry. Histological sections of brain were stained with hematoxylin & eosin (H&E), Cresyl violet, Bielschowsky silver stain, or immunohistochemically for beta-amyloid, amyloid A, and IgM. No differences were found between the body weights of rats in the different treatment groups although more rats died in the AlF3 group than in the control group. The Al levels in samples of brain and kidney were higher in both the AlF3 and NaF groups relative to controls. The effects of the two treatments on cerebrovascular and neuronal integrity were qualitatively and quantitatively different. These alterations were greater in animals in the AlF3 group than in the NaF group and greater in the NaF group than in controls. Copyright 1998 Elsevier Science B.V.

Psychology Department, Binghamton University, Binghamton, NY, USA.

Varner JA, Jensen KF, Horvath W, Issacson RL, The Neurotoxicological Evaluation Of The Chronic Administration Of Aluminum-Fluoride and Sodium-Fluoride, Society for Neuroscience Annual Meeting; San Diego, CA, 1995 Nov, abstract.

This study examined the neurotoxic consequences of the chronic ingestion of AlF3 and the equivalent fluoride concentration given as low doses of NaF in drinking water. Twenty seven male LE rats, 3.5 - 4.5 months of age, were studied. The animals were divided into 3 groups based on the contents of the drinking water: control, NaF, or AlF3. Water was available ad libium for 52 weeks. Significantly more rats died in the AlF3 group than the control group during the study. Histological examinations involved the following stains: Cresy Violet, Bielschowsky silver, H&E, Morin Aluminum fluorescence, Beta Amyloid, Amyloid A, and IgM. Overall, neuronal loss was more prominent in the AlF3 group than the NaF and control groups in the left hemisphere and in the dentate gyrus of both hemispheres. Toxin-induced abnormalities in the AlF3 group were more apparent in the left hemisphere cortex but changes were found in the right hemisphere hippocampus. Hippocampal argentophillic reactions were common in both treated groups. Beta amyloid reaction product was enhanced in the thalamus in both toxin groups. More IgM antibody reaction product was found in the right hemisphere cortices of rats in both treated groups. Overall brain and kidney Al content was higher in both toxin groups relative to controls. Indications of glomerular disease were found in both treated groups. This reduction and/or abnormal appearance of cells, the presence of beta-amyloid, IgM, and Al indicate that AlF3 is neurotoxic when chronically administered in the drinking water of rats. The abnormal appearance of cells and the presence of beta-amyloid, IgM, and Al suggest that NaF also induces neurotoxicity, although somewhat different than that found after AlF3.

Varner JA, Huie C, Horvath W, Jensen KF, Issacson RL, Chronic AlF3 Administration: II. Selected Histological Observations, Neuroscience Research Communications, 1993, 13:2, 99-104.

[editor's note: this study shows that the bioavailability of Al from drinking water is increased in the presence of fluoride. The Al content in the brain doubled in treated animals. According to an October 28, 1992 Wall Street Journal Article: "Rats fed the highest doses developed irregular mincing steps characteristic of senile animals.... Post mortem examination of the rat brains disclosed 'substantial cell loss in structures associated with dementia -- the neo-cortex and hippocampus'."]


Yang Y, Wang X, Guo X, Effects of high iodine and high fluorine on children's intelligence and the metabolism of iodine and fluorine, Chung Hua Liu Hsing Ping Hsueh Tsa Chih, 1994 Oct, 15 (5), 296-298 (Translated from Chinese).

An investigation on children's intelligence and the metabolism of iodine and fluorine in high iodine and fluorine regions was carried out. The results were as follows. In high iodine and high fluorine areas, the thyroid enlargement prevalence rate among inhabitants and that among children were 3.8% and 29.8%, respectively. The dental fluorosis prevalence rate among inhabitants and that among children was 35.48% and 72.9%, respectively. The pupils' average intelligence quotient (IQ) was 76.67 ± 7.75, slightly lower than the control point, but that of low intelligent pupils was 16.7%. The urinary iodine and urinary fluoride were 816.25 ± 1.80 micrograms/L and 2.08 ± 1.03 mg/L, respectively, markedly higher than the control point. The thyroid iodine-131 (131I) uptake rate was markedly lower than the control point. The values at 3 h and 24 h were 9.36 ± 1.55% and 9.26 ± 4.63%, respectively. The serum TSH was obviously higher than the control point. These results indicate that high iodine and high fluorine exert severe damage to human body.

Zhao LB, Liang GH, Zhang DN, Wu XR, Effect of a high fluoride water supply on children's intelligence, Fluoride, 1996, 29:4, 190-192

Abstract: In Shanxi Province, China, children living in the endemic fluoride village of Sima (water supply F=4.12 mg/L) located near Xiaoyi City had average IQ (97.69) significantly lower (p <0.02) mg/L; average IQ = 105.21). These differences were not associated with gender, but the IQ scores were directly related to educational level of the parents.
Introduction: It has been reported that fluoride can penetrate the fetal blood-brain barrier and accumulate in cerebral tissue before birth,1 thereby apparently affecting children's intelligence.2 In the present study, conducted in April 1993, this hypothesis was further investigated by comparing the performance on IQ tests administered to 320 randomly selected children, age 7 to 14, residing in central Shanxi Province, China, in two suburban villages with significantly different fluoride content in drinking water. [...]
Discussion: The results of this study indicated that intake of high-fluoride drinking water from before birth has a significant deleterious influence on children's IQ in on of two similar villages. No real differences were found for gender. In the high-fluoride village of Sima the number of children with IQ of 69 or below was six times that in the healthier low-fluoride village of Xinghua. There were also fewer children (20) in Sima with superior IQ scores of 120 or higher than the number (27) in Xinghua. Moreover, the fact that the IQ scores increased more slowly with age in Sima than in Xinghua supports the view that exposure to high levels of fluoride in utero exerts a cumulative adverse effect that is not overcome with increasing age in a high-fluoride community.

References
1. He H, Chen ZS, Liu XM, The effects of fluoride on the human embryo, Chinese Journal of Control of Epidemic Diseases, 1989, 4, 136-137.
2. Cheng YX, IQ of children in areas of high fluorine content, Chinese Journal of Control of Endemic Diseases, Supplement 1991.



RELATED ARTICLES

* Ding LI, The nervous systemic complications of chronic fluorosis. Chinese Journal of Endemiology, 1983, 2, 97-98.
* Hu YH, Direct damage on nervous system by fluorosis. Compilation of First Conference on Neuropsychiatric Diseases in Xinjian, (1982), 86-88.
* Shung-Guan CM, et al., The non-skeletal lesions of endemic fluorosis, Chinese Journal of Internal Medicine, 1982, 21, 217-219.
* Du L, Wan CW, Cao XM, The influence of chronic fluorosis on the development of the brain of the human embryo, Journal of Fluorosis Research Communications, 1991, 138



Up
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Are the claimed benefits of ingesting fluoride over-rated
and the risks to our health and eco-system under-reported? Scientific Abstracts
Bones | Calgary | Cavities | Fertility | Cancer | Health risks | Neurological | Dental Fluorosis and Pictures
ISFR | Ethics | Tributes | Fraud | Authors | Deaths | Quotes | Environment | Skeletal Fluorosis | Definitions


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8282930 - 04/14/08 04:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

so would there be any way to get de-fluoridated water for cheap? or would I have to go out and buy it by the gallon, or by the jug? After reading all of this, I would prefer to drink from the stream in the woods than out of the tap.

Are there any special filters I can get?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Drewwyann]
    #8282954 - 04/14/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A lot of distilled water is fluoridated.


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8283155 - 04/14/08 05:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
A lot of distilled water is fluoridated.




Yes, you're right to an extent. It made me sick when I saw these gallon jugs of distilled water for babies. At first glance I was like cool distilled water is good for babies then I looked and it said "With added Fluoride! It's great for kids!". Our society is fucked beyond what we would like to believe.


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Drewwyann]
    #8283163 - 04/14/08 05:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Drewwyann said:
so would there be any way to get de-fluoridated water for cheap? or would I have to go out and buy it by the gallon, or by the jug? After reading all of this, I would prefer to drink from the stream in the woods than out of the tap.

Are there any special filters I can get?




Here's a good but relatively cheap water distiller.
http://www.amazon.com/Water-Distiller-Countertop-White-Enamel/dp/B00026F9F8


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8283383 - 04/14/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks fellas!


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Drewwyann]
    #8284396 - 04/14/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This makes me wonder...when I went hiking for a couple days my eczema dissapeared. Then it came back when I came home and I started showering again.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Epigallo]
    #8284537 - 04/14/08 10:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
This makes me wonder...when I went hiking for a couple days my eczema dissapeared. Then it came back when I came home and I started showering again.




Wouldn't be surprised bro. Do you drink tap water and/or have mercury amalgams in your mouth still?


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8284641 - 04/14/08 10:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Here a Q for you

So you stop drinking tap water.But you take a bath in it ?.....


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Brainiac]
    #8284672 - 04/14/08 10:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Brainiac said:
Here a Q for you

So you stop drinking tap water.But you take a bath in it ?.....




I don't take baths brah I'm a dirty hippy.


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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8284713 - 04/14/08 10:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

FACT: you absorb more of the nasty shit in our water supply when you shower then when you drink it

filters people...

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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8286497 - 04/15/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

bradley said:
This makes me wonder...when I went hiking for a couple days my eczema dissapeared. Then it came back when I came home and I started showering again.




Wouldn't be surprised bro. Do you drink tap water and/or have mercury amalgams in your mouth still?




yea i drink tap water, no almagams tho

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Epigallo]
    #8287178 - 04/15/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

bradley said:
This makes me wonder...when I went hiking for a couple days my eczema dissapeared. Then it came back when I came home and I started showering again.




Wouldn't be surprised bro. Do you drink tap water and/or have mercury amalgams in your mouth still?




yea i drink tap water, no almagams tho




Stop drinking tap water, problem solved. Yes, it's as simple as that. Distilled water FTW.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8294994 - 04/17/08 05:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

i heard james arthur say that flouride is like a magnet to the human pineal gland. Anyone know the studies that may have concluded that? I would love to read it




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11275672?dopt=Abstract

Quote:


I don't know if its really bad for you or not, but these things are always on a spectrum, who knows if the low levels are enough to effect you in ways other than your bones/teeth




http://www.fluorideresearch.org/403/files/FJ2007_v40_n3_p178-183.pdf

http://www.fluorideresearch.org/402/files/FJ2007_v40_n2_p101-110.pdf

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no2/kauffman.pdf


Quote:


ehh, no, it's good for your teeth





http://www.fluorideresearch.org/404/files/FJ2007_v40_n4_p229-237.pdf




All peer reviewed studies.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Shroomism]
    #8295032 - 04/17/08 05:39 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:

All peer reviewed studies.




Which are much more convinving than some of the random links which are often thrown around.

Keep in mind however, that there are plenty of peer-reviewed studys that show beneficial, or no detrimental effects from flouridated water.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Edited by badchad (04/17/08 05:39 AM)

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: badchad]
    #8295083 - 04/17/08 06:23 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I've read a few of them. But I don't buy it. There is a lot more evidence to the contrary it seems.

And better safe than sorry, I say.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JTB22]
    #8297285 - 04/17/08 05:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A four-year study by the National Resources Defense Council (NRDC), released in 1999, found that one-fifth of the sampled bottled waters contained known neurotoxins and carcinogens such as styrene, toluene and xylene. Another NRDC study found that, out of 103 brands of bottled water, one-third contained traces of arsenic and E. coli. This means that out of a sample of 1,000 bottles sold in the U.S., at least 300 would have some level of chemical contamination.

In 1990, the FDA made Perrier drop the words "Naturally Sparkling" from its label since investigators had discovered that Perrier artificially carbonated its water after taking it out of the ground. Perrier, once the most popular US brand was also later forced to announce a world wide recall on the bottled water when unsafe levels of Benzene were found.

A Suffolk County Study in the USA tested 88 bottled waters and what they found was horrifying. It was this study which discovered the cancer agent, benzene, in Perrier and caused it to be withdrawn, but they also found: Freon, kerosene, toluene, trichloroethylene, and xylene in a number of other bottled waters.

There is no dispute on the cancer-causing potential of benzene. "Benzene is carcinogenic to humans and no safe level of exposure can be recommended," the World Health Organization has maintained. Benzene causes leukemia and can also cross the placenta affecting the fetus.

The NRDC in the USA reported that one-third of bottled water products they tested were found to violate an enforceable state standard or exceed microbiological purity guidelines, or both, in at least one sample.

Despite popular misperceptions (spawned primarily by advertising), bottled water is not regulated as strictly as tap water. In fact, unlike tap water, regulations allow bottled water to contain some contamination by E. coli or fecal coliform and don't require disinfection for cryptosporidium or giardia. And, as Consumer Reports tests discovered, unhealthy chemicals can migrate from plastic bottles into the water.



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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8297825 - 04/17/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Fluoride is fucking rat poison you stupid fucks. Sorry but I'm done being nice...geez


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Shroomism]
    #8299353 - 04/18/08 01:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:


ehh, no, it's good for your teeth





http://www.fluorideresearch.org/404/files/FJ2007_v40_n4_p229-237.pdf




All peer reviewed studies.




uh huh


you mean peer reviewed and rejected? Usually that term is meant to refer to items that are peer reviewed and accepted.


Additionally, the whole premise of the journal pretty much demolishes any inertia the article's findings would sustain from that fact alone. I've not looked at all the claims in the review you post, but if you want to point me to something with actual experimental data, or at least some observational study, feel free to

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8299451 - 04/18/08 01:36 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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OfflineMokshaIs
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8299595 - 04/18/08 02:26 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

what about fluoride in toothpaste? insanity?
what is a college student to do? are those brita filters worth the time?


--------------------
in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: MokshaIs]
    #8299698 - 04/18/08 03:22 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MokshaIs said:
what about fluoride in toothpaste? insanity?
what is a college student to do? are those brita filters worth the time?




Use baking soda, it's cheap as fuck to.  Get distilled water instead.  You can buy 'em at your local supermarket for a dollar or if you have money you can buy this for relatively cheaply.  Peace brah


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8300015 - 04/18/08 08:21 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
uh huh


you mean peer reviewed and rejected?  Usually that term is meant to refer to items that are peer reviewed and accepted.


  Additionally, the whole premise of the journal pretty much demolishes any inertia the article's findings would sustain from that fact alone.  I've not looked at all the claims in the review you post, but if you want to point me to something with actual experimental data, or at least some observational study, feel free to




What premise of the journal? To research fluoride? :what: You obviously didn't look through the site. They have over 30 years worth of peer reviewed journals on fluoride research, with both sides of the issue. However, the negative far outweighs the rest. So you just make a baseless assumption on one paragraph you read in one article I posted? nice.

I posted this in the other thread and I'm tired of going in circles with people about this issue so I'll just repost. The research has all been done. There is also most definitely a conspiracy to suppress the truth about fluoride, and has been for well over 50 years. But when the former head of Forsyth with a Ph.D in toxicology says that fluoride is a harmful neurotoxin, I am going to believe her over some random skeptics on the shroomery that don't present any research and just debunk everything without even reading it. If you want to argue, then show me some evidence that it's not a neurotoxin, otherwise I am done trying to help educate people that just want to blindly argue a moot point because they grew up believing some fairy tale about fluoride being good for their teeth because the benevolent colgate-palmolive said so.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:


I cannot find anything in scientific literature to back up this claim; though my search was short lived as I got sick of wading through the tons of unsubstantiated garbage that make the same claim.  Can anybody can point me towards actual research as opposed to popular opinion?




First see this: http://www.slweb.org/EPA-Masters.jpg

And now these:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7760776
http://www.fluoride-journal.com/96-29-2/292-57.htm
http://www.qawf.org/documents/evidencefluorideharmfuloverwhelming.pdf
http://www.fluoride-journal.com/97-30-2/302-89.htm
http://www.atlaschiro.com/fluorideresch.htm#TOXICITY%20OF%20FLUORIDE

If you are the least bit interested to hear the story of Dr. Phyllis J. Mullenix, Ph.D, a pharmacologist and toxicologist by training.. Head of the Toxicology Department at the Forsyth Dental Center in the 1980s.. a world renowned dental research institution affiliated with the Harvard Medical School.. who was asked  to conduct research on the neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride... and after presenting her data to the NIH and the National Institute of Dental Research.. she was canned overnight and they intentionally suppressed her data.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.HEALTH.Floride.DrPhylissMullennix.htm

VIDEO: (Very interesting, I suggest you watch)






Quote:


Eh?  What type of rat poison?  Most rat poisons are anticoagulants, such as warfarin (C19H16O4), bromadiolone (C9H6O2), and pindone (C14H14O3).  The other common types of rat poisons are metal phosphides, such as aluminum phosphide (AlP), and zinc phosphide (Zn3P2).  Even strychnine (C21H22N2O2) contains no fluorine.




There are many patents:
http://www.fluoride-history.de/p-insecticides.htm

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_fluoroacetate

Quote:


> But fluoride builds up in the body over time.

"The fluoride excretion was ... and 3.5±0.22 mg/day during the control period."

Source: http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v56/n1/full/1601287a.html#tbl2




http://www.fluorideresearch.org/402/files/FJ2007_v40_n2_p101-110.pdf




--------------------

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InvisibleClean
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Shroomism]
    #8300501 - 04/18/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

these filters claim to remove fluoride and arsenic..
their systems a on the expensive side (300+ dollars for the whole thing including the fluoride post filters)

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Shroomism]
    #8301053 - 04/18/08 01:43 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
uh huh


you mean peer reviewed and rejected?  Usually that term is meant to refer to items that are peer reviewed and accepted.


  Additionally, the whole premise of the journal pretty much demolishes any inertia the article's findings would sustain from that fact alone.  I've not looked at all the claims in the review you post, but if you want to point me to something with actual experimental data, or at least some observational study, feel free to




What premise of the journal? To research fluoride? :what: You obviously didn't look through the site. They have over 30 years worth of peer reviewed journals on fluoride research, with both sides of the issue. However, the negative far outweighs the rest. So you just make a baseless assumption on one paragraph you read in one article I posted? nice.

I posted this in the other thread and I'm tired of going in circles with people about this issue so I'll just repost. The research has all been done. There is also most definitely a conspiracy to suppress the truth about fluoride, and has been for well over 50 years. But when the former head of Forsyth with a Ph.D in toxicology says that fluoride is a harmful neurotoxin, I am going to believe her over some random skeptics on the shroomery that don't present any research and just debunk everything without even reading it. If you want to argue, then show me some evidence that it's not a neurotoxin, otherwise I am done trying to help educate people that just want to blindly argue a moot point because they grew up believing some fairy tale about fluoride being good for their teeth because the benevolent colgate-palmolive said so.





The premise of the journal is that fluoride is bad.  What makes you think I didn't look through the site?  And feel free to point me to the positive articles on fluoride.

You're tired of going in circles?  Just provide evidence fluoride isn't good for teeth.

And do you contend that that review was peer reviewed?  I don't think it matters at all, but you made the claim.

And you shifting the burden doesn't accomplish your goal.  1.  I never said fluoride wasn't a neurotoxin.  2.  We weren't discussing that issue.


Fallacy Count:  Appeal to Authority; Shifting the Burden of Proof; Equivocating; Ad hominem/ strawman

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8301375 - 04/18/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

The problem determining the effects of flouride in humans is one of ethics. You can't ethically test whether or not somehting is a neurotoxin on someone. The reason is obvious: what if you're right?

Most of the studies cited are animal studies and almost entirely irrelevant. Injecting an animal with enormous, bolus amounts of flouride isn't comparable to the miniscule amounts found in water.

The reason there is such controversy over flouridation is because their isn't clear evidence either way concerning it's benefit/risk ratio.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: badchad]
    #8302012 - 04/18/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The problem determining the effects of flouride in humans is one of ethics. You can't ethically test whether or not somehting is a neurotoxin on someone. The reason is obvious: what if you're right?




Please apply the same logic to smoking tobacco and lung cancer.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Seuss]
    #8302605 - 04/18/08 09:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I was trying to think of a way to drink non-fluoridated water but retaining minerals...would it work to set your water at about 100F for a bit? The boiling point of hydrogen fluoride is 67.2F I wonder if even the old fashioned boil your water to make sure it's clean would work? Might take less time and would kill other bacteria that are present in your tab water. (again saving minerals.)

WOAH! I was looking at the wiki for Hydrogen fluoride and it said that hydrogen fluoride together with hydrofluoric acid, is the principal industrial source of fluorine and hence the precursor to many important compounds including pharmaceuticals and polymers (e.g. Teflon). No wonder why teflon got the boot...or wait - did it?

I just realized another alternative might be to drink distilled water along with a supplemental vitamin, which would actually get a wider variety of minerals in your body.

Edited by fazdazzle (04/18/08 10:04 PM)

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: fazdazzle]
    #8302626 - 04/18/08 10:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fazdazzle said:
I was trying to think of a way to drink non-fluoridated water but retaining minerals...would it work to set your water at about 100F for a bit? The boiling point of hydrogen fluoride is 67.2F I wonder if even the old fashioned boil your water to make sure it's clean would work? Might take less time and would kill other bacteria that are present in your tab water. (again saving minerals.)

WOAH! I was looking at the wiki for Hydrogen fluoride and it said that hydrogen fluoride together with hydrofluoric acid, is the principal industrial source of fluorine and hence the precursor to many important compounds including pharmaceuticals and polymers (e.g. Teflon). No wonder why teflon got the boot...or wait - did it?




Save yourself a lot of bullshit and just drink distilled water. Simple as that. The notion that you need minerals in water is absurd. You can easily get all the minerals you need in food.


--------------------

Edited by RonaldFuckingPaul (04/18/08 10:05 PM)

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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8302673 - 04/18/08 10:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I havn't seen any research on this, but I thought distilled water through osmosis will leech minerals out of your body?

I drank RO purified water for a while but switched back to tap after finding out that RO & distilled water are pure water (no minerals). I'm starting to take a daily vitamin so I'll probably switch back to RO water since it tastes much much better than our tap water.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: fazdazzle]
    #8302755 - 04/18/08 10:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fazdazzle said:
I havn't seen any research on this, but I thought distilled water through osmosis will leech minerals out of your body?

I drank RO purified water for a while but switched back to tap after finding out that RO & distilled water are pure water (no minerals). I'm starting to take a daily vitamin so I'll probably switch back to RO water since it tastes much much better than our tap water.




That is quack science comparable to that of the tobacco lawsuits. Just drink distilled water and be like Mike!


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Seuss]
    #8303742 - 04/19/08 08:23 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Please apply the same logic to smoking tobacco and lung cancer.




Somewhat similar logic applies actually. It's rather difficult to perform studies of tobacco and nicotine in non-smokers. The risk is you'll get them addicted, and then they'll suffer adverse consequences.

You'd never get approval to test the neurotoxicity of a compound in humans (unless you were doing some sort of retrospctive analysis of something they were already exposed to).


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: badchad]
    #8317629 - 04/23/08 03:51 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The problem determining the effects of flouride in humans is one of ethics. You can't ethically test whether or not somehting is a neurotoxin on someone.



But towns with naturally fluoridated water have lower incidences of dental health problems that towns with no fluoride. And adding fluoride to those towns' water supplies brings the level of dental health to parity.
That's an experiment right there, and it's been done hundreds, if not thousands of times all over the world.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8317656 - 04/23/08 04:21 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


But towns with naturally fluoridated water have lower incidences of dental health problems that towns with no fluoride. And adding fluoride to those towns' water supplies brings the level of dental health to parity.
That's an experiment right there, and it's been done hundreds, if not thousands of times all over the world.




according to david icke, that is a big ol silly willy of a notion. I don't know what to think. There is science that refutes that science, so therefore, science just don't kno fo sho. I go with, don't put anything in the water. does anyone really believe that fluoride was put in the water to keep our teeth nice and strong? perhaps i am cynical.


--------------------
in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: MokshaIs]
    #8317687 - 04/23/08 04:53 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I believe it was put in the water to make our teeth stronger. It bears up to scientific scrutiny - the evidence that flouride makes our teeth stronger on a molecular level is very solid, the evidence that water fluoride concentrations no greater than 1ppm are beneficial to dental health is also very solid, and (on a bigger scale) epidemiological studies have shown the result of adding fluoride to water.
On a molecular, physiological and statistical level, fluoridated water is a marvel of modern public health, second only to vaccinations.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8319494 - 04/23/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I believe it was put in the water to make our teeth stronger. It bears up to scientific scrutiny - the evidence that flouride makes our teeth stronger on a molecular level is very solid, the evidence that water fluoride concentrations no greater than 1ppm are beneficial to dental health is also very solid, and (on a bigger scale) epidemiological studies have shown the result of adding fluoride to water.
On a molecular, physiological and statistical level, fluoridated water is a marvel of modern public health, second only to vaccinations.




Are you guys really this brainwashed? Jesus Christ! Do you know what fluoride is and what it does when it enters your body? Do you know what's in vaccines? It's time to wake up and see what is happening right before you! The gov't doesn't give a flaming fuck about you!

Formaldehyde:

(Used in vaccines as a tissue fixative)

Aust. National Research Council: Fewer than 20% but perhaps more than 10% of the general population may be susceptible to formaldehyde and may react acutely at any exposure level. More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems, on at least 8 federal regulatory lists, ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health (Environmental Defense Fund).

It is not safe at ANY level.

National Academy of Science:
There is no population threshold for irritation effects.

National Research Council:
Fewer than 20% but perhaps more than 10% of the general population may be susceptible to formaldehyde and may react acutely at any exposure level.

Formaldehyde is oxidised to formic acid which leads to acidosis and nerve damage. Acidosis can be described as a condition in which the acidity of the body tissues and fluids is abnormally high. The liver and the kidneys may also be damaged.

Other effects:

Eye; nasal; throat and pulmonary irritation; acute sense of smell; alters tissue proteins; anaemia; antibodies formation; apathy; blindness; blood in urine; blurred vision; body aches; bronchial spasms; bronchitis; burns nasal and throat; cardiac impairment; palpitations and arrhythmias; central nervous system depression; changes in higher cognitive functions; chemical sensitivity; chest pains and tightness; chronic vaginitis; colds; coma; conjunctivitis; constipation; convulsions; corneal erosion; cough; death; destruction of red blood cells; depression; dermatitis; diarrhoea; difficulty concentrating; disorientation; dizziness; ear aches; eczema; emotional upsets; ethmoid polyps; fatigue; fecula bleeding; foetal asphyxiation (and they don’t know what could cause SIDS?); flu-like or cold like illness; frequent urination with pain; gastritis; gastrointestinal inflammation; headaches; haemolytic anaemia; haemolytic haematuria; hoarseness; hyperactive airway disease; hyperactivity; hypomenstrual syndrome; immune system sensitiser; impaired (short) attention span; impaired capacity to attain attention; inability or difficulty swallowing; inability to recall words and names; inconsistent IQ profiles; inflammatory diseases of the reproductive organs; intestinal pain; intrinsic asthma; irritability; jaundice; joint pain; aches and swelling; kidney pain; laryngeal spasm; loss of memory; loss of sense of smell; loss of taste; malaise; menstrual and testicular pain; menstrual irregularities; metallic taste; muscle spasms and cramps; nasal congestions; crusting and mucosae inflammation; nausea; nosebleeds; numbness and tingling of the forearms and finger tips; pale, clammy skin; partial laryngeal paralysis; pneumonia; post nasal drip; pulmonary oedema; reduced body temperature; retarded speech pattern; ringing or tingling in the ear; schizophrenic-type symptoms; sensitivity to sound; shock; short term memory loss; shortness of breath; skin lesions; sneezing; sore throat; spacey feeling; speaking difficulty; sterility; swollen glands; tearing; thirst; tracheitis; tracheobronchitis; vertigo; vomiting blood; vomiting; wheezing.

References; C. Wilson; Chronic Exposure and Human Health (1993), McFarland & Company taken from Our Toxic Times Feb 1997 pgs 18 & 19.

Mercury:

(Used in vaccines as a preservative.)

Before you say, "But haven't they removed mercury from the vaccines on the childhood vaccination schedule?" read this: http://www.acnem.org/journal/23-2_september_2004/vaccines_and_mercury.htm

See this video filmed by the University of Calgary of an actual brain neuron - watch what happens to it when it is exposed to (a low amount of) mercury: http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/ The following is a written article about this video: http://unisci.com/stories/20011/0327013.htm

Mercury is the second most poisonous element known to man (next to uranium and its derivatives). As illustrated in the above video, neurons are observed to disintegrate in its presence. It has also been found to cause changes to chromosomes.

The U.S. has known about the potential problems of thimerosal (compound in vaccines that contains mercury) for many years. The World Health Organization voiced concerns as far back as 1990. Mercury is a highly toxic element which does not easily leave the body. Once ingested, injected, or inhaled, it stays and accumulates. An infant can receive in one day’s doses of vaccines as much as the absolute maximum set by the W.H.O. for 3 months of exposure, but it is not safe at ANY level.

Thimerosal is listed as a recognized developmental toxicant as well as a suspected skin or sense organ toxicant by the Environmental Defense Fund1. The following was taken from a website affiliated with the National Institutes for Health2:

"Symptoms of exposure to this class of compounds includes aphthous, stomatitis, catarrhal gingivitis, nausea, liquid stools, pain, liver disorder, injury to the cardiovascular system and hematopoietic system, deafness and ataxia. Exposure may be fatal. Headache, paresthesia of the tongue, lips, fingers and toes, other non-specific dysfunctions, metallic taste, slight gastrointestinal disturbances, excessive flatus and diarrhea may occur. Acute poisoning may cause gastrointestinal irritation and renal failure. Early signs of severe poisoning include fine tremors of extended hands, loss of side vision, slight loss of coordination in the eyes, speech, writing and gait, inability to stand or carry out voluntary movements, occasional muscle atrophy and flexure contractures, generalized myoclonic movements, difficulty understanding ordinary speech, irritability and bad temper progressing to mania, stupor, coma, mental retardation in children, skin irritation, blisters and dermatitis. Other symptoms include chorea, athetosis, tremors, convulsions, pain and numbness in the extremities, nephritis, salivation, loosening of the teeth, blue line on the gums, anxiety, mental depression, insomnia, hallucinations and central nervous system effects. Exposure may also cause irritation of the eyes, mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract."

References:
1.) Environmental Defense Fund - http://www.scorecard.com/
2.) National Institutes for Health -
http://ntp-db.niehs.nih.gov/NTP_Reports/NTP_Chem_H&S/NTP_Chem5/Radian54-64-8.txt

Here is an excerpt from "The Vaccine Guide: Making an Informed Choice" (Randall Neustaedter, North Atlantic Books, 1996):

"Sensitivities to thimerosal in vaccines apparently develop as a result of previous vaccinations (Förström et al., 1980). Even the minute amount of thimerosal used in vaccines (.1 to .01%) can specifically stimulate the immune system and cause sensitization (Aberer, 1991). Mercury is a violent poison with many toxic effects. The toxicity of mercury varies depending on the form in which the element appears. Metallic mercury has different effects than inorganic or organic mercury compounds. However, major differences in toxicity are not expected among the different compounds within the inorganic group of mercury salts (Clement, 1992)...

...The neurologic toxicity symptoms caused by mercury compounds have a delayed onset after exposure (Bakir et al, 1973), which may have significance for the suspected long-term neurologic symptoms of learning disabilities and behaviour disorders associated with vaccines. (For full references, refer to book.)"
Antifreeze: (This is in the polio vaccine.) Classed as "Very Toxic Material". May lead to kidney, liver, blood and central nervous system (CNS) disorders. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Effects include behavioural disorders, drowsiness, vomiting, diarrhoea, visual disturbances, thirst, convulsions, cyanosis, and rapid heart rate, CNS stimulation, depression, cardiopulmonary effects, kidney disorders. May also lead to liver and blood disorders. Produces reproductive and developmental effects in experimental animals.

(Source: http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com/MSDS/014/014978.pdf)
Aluminium:

EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant, neurotoxicant, respiratory toxicant. Implicated as a cause of brain damage; suspected factor in Alzheimer's Disease, dementia, convulsions and comas. More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems. On at least 2 federal regulatory lists. (This element is not toxic when only in trace amounts, indeed at such levels is even beneficial to the body, however a trace amount is extremely minute - the level in vaccines is enormously higher, at around 0.5%)
2-Phenoxyethanol:

EDF Suspected - developmental toxicant, reproductive toxicant. Metabolic poison (i.e. interferes with the metabolism in all cells). Capable of disabling the immune system's primary response. Contains phenol (see below).
Phenol:

EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant aka Carbolic Acid, developmental toxicant, gastrointestinal or liver toxicant, kidney toxicant, neurotoxicant, respiratory toxicant, skin or sense organ toxicant. More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 10 ranking systems. On at least 8 federal regulatory lists
Methanol:

Described as a volatile, flammable and poisonous liquid alcohol. In industry, it is used as a solvent and an antifreeze compound in fuel. In the body it is metabolised to formaldehyde (see above). Whilst it can be found naturally in the pectin that is present in some common fruits, it is only in very small quantities in fruit and does not pose a danger to the body in that form.
Borax

(sodium tetraborate decahydrate):


Traditionally used as a pesticide, including ant killer. Suspected cardiovascular or blood toxicant, endocrine toxicant, gastrointestinal or liver toxicant and neurological toxicant. Found to cause reproductive damage and reduced fertility in a study on rats.
Glutaraldehyde:

Poisonous if ingested (would be worse if injected). Causes birth defects in experimental animals.
MSG

(monosodium glutamate):


In a 1995 report by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) two groups of people were defined as intolerant of MSG - those who eat large quantities of MSG (which is in many processed foods as a flavour enhancer - # 621) and those with “severe, poorly controlled asthma”. (Can you guess now why sensitivity to MSG is so common?) According to this report which was contracted by the FDA the following are symptoms that they found in reaction to MSG.


A. Burning sensation in the back of the neck, forearms and chest
B. Numbness in the back of the neck, radiating to the arms and back
C. Tingling, warmth, and weakness in the face, temples, upper back, neck and arms
D. Facial pressure or tightness
E. Chest pain
F. Headache
G. Nausea
I. Rapid heartbeat
J. Bronchospasm (difficulty breathing) in MSG-intolerant people with asthma
K. Drowsiness
L. Weakness

An FDA web page called "FDA and Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)" states "Injections of glutamate in laboratory animals have resulted in damage to nerve cells in the brain."

In 1978 MSG was removed from baby food and other baby products for infants less than one year of age because the American Academy of Pediatrics and the National Academy of Sciences expressed concerns.
Sulfate and phosphate compounds

(to one or more of which your child may have already developed a severe allergy from past vaccinations.)

Ammonium Sulfate:


EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant, neurotoxicant, respiratory toxicant.

Gentamicin Sulfate:


an antibiotic.

Neomycin Sulfate:


an antibiotic. Interferes with Vitamin B6 absorption. An error in the uptake of B6 can cause a rare form of epilepsy and mental retardation.

Tri(n)butylphosphate:


EDF Suspected - kidney toxicant, neurotoxicant. More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 3 ranking systems. On at least 1 federal regulatory list.

Polymyxin B:


another antibiotic
Polysorbate 20 / 80:

EDF Suspected - skin or sense organ toxicant. Known to cause cancer in animals.
Sorbitol:

EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant. Less hazardous than most chemicals in 1 ranking system.
Polyribosylribitol:

a component of the Hib bacterium.
Beta-Propiolactone:

EDF Recognized - carcinogen, EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant, respiratory toxicant, skin or sense organ toxicant. More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 3 ranking systems. On at least 5 federal regulatory lists. Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to humans.
Amphotericin B:

MME definition - "a drug used to treat fungus infections. Known allergy to this drug prohibits use. Side effects include blood clots, blood defects, kidney problems, nausea and fever. When used on the skin, allergic reactions can occur."
Animal organ tissue and blood:

Animal cell lines need to be used to culture the viruses in vaccines, so this material is included in the formulation that is injected. Other than when this protein material is digested (i.e. consumed and broken down into its component amino acids, etc, before absorption), it is unusable and toxic to the body. It can also contain many animal viruses (see Animal Viruses).

Animals used include monkey (kidney), cow (heart), calf (serum), chicken (embryo and egg), duck (egg), pig (blood), sheep (blood), dog (kidney), horse (blood), rabbit (brain), guinea pig, etc.
Aborted human foetal tissue and human albumin:

This is something you might like to consider if you are against abortion. Also from a health point of view tissue from another human (not just animals) is still foreign and therefore toxic to the body.

Large foreign proteins:


In addition to the above accompanying (protein) material, there are large proteins that are deliberately included, used for such purposes as adjuvants (i.e. to help get an immune "response"). Egg album and gelatin (or gelatine, obtained from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins, de-mineralized cattle bones and pork skin) are in several vaccines. Casein (milk protein) is in the triple antigen, i.e. DPT vaccine. As explained above, when injected, proteins are toxic to the body. Hence the immune system "response" - it is stressed by this invasion, which results in sensitisation - it becomes sensitive to these substances, not immune to them.

Is it any wonder, then, that allergies to these substances are now so common (in the case of milk, resulting in the relatively recent emergence of milk alternatives such as soy and rice "milk"s)?
Latex:

This is in the hepatitis B vaccine which is given routinely to health workers. Have you heard about the problem of the high occurrence of latex allergy among nurses? How do you think they became sensitised to latex? Allergic reactions can be life-threatening. Hepatitis B vaccine is now routinely given to newborn babies in many countries, including Australia and the US.
Animal Viruses:

Some of these can be particularly alien to the human body. The most frequently documented and publicised example is the monkey virus SV40. This is harmless in monkeys, but inject it into a human and it can cause cancer – in the brain (tumours), bone (e.g. multiple myeloma), lungs (mesothelioma) and lymphoid tissue (lymphoma). It has appeared in people born in the last 20 years (The Journal of Infectious Diseases, Sep 1999;180:884-887), long after the manufacturer claimed to have "cleaned up" the polio vaccine in which it was found. Such cases include the late Alexander Horwin, both of whose parents tested negative for SV40, therefore recent cases cannot just be blamed on inheritance from parents who received the vaccine (see www.ouralexander.org).
Human Viruses:

The viruses against which the vaccine is supposed to protect are frequently said to be "killed", "inactivated" or "attenuated". This is a myth. The main method used to inactivate viruses is treatment with formaldehyde, whose effectiveness is only limited, and even then only temporary - once the brew is injected into the body and disperses, it is documented in orthodox medical literature that these "killed" viruses can revert to their former virulence. (References for this are available.)

Please note also that whilst the included viruses, bacteria etc against which the vaccine is supposed to protect are claimed to be in "very small doses", the quantities are quite high enough for the diseases to occur, as they can do quite severely, occasionally even leading to death (e.g. deaths reported recently in the Lancet from yellow fever contracted from that vaccine). Indeed a susceptible person can succumb to infection when exposed to only a minute dose (particularly when directly injected), while a sufficiently healthy person will not succumb even when exposed, naturally that is, to an enormous dose. It is not the pathogen, but the interaction between pathogen and host that causes disease to appear (Intervirology 1993).

If the symptoms of a disease do not occur after a vaccine, it cannot be assumed that the person is not or will not be harmed by that pathogen. Most disease symptoms are actually the visible signs of the body's effort to defend itself against the pathogen, and with injections, important defences are bypassed.
Bacteria and the toxins they produce:

The human blood is supposed to be, and traditionally was, sterile - no bacteria (or other organisms) present in it. That is not the case any more. Naturally this has a weakening effect on the immune system, apart from sometimes leading to severe bacterial infections.
Mycoplasma:

These are microscopic organisms lacking rigid cell walls and considered to be the smallest free-living organisms. Many are pathogenic and one species is a cause of mycoplasma pneumonia which interestingly is noted to occur "in children and young adults" (Mosby's Medical Dictionary). So, are these only in vaccines by mistake as contaminants? No, believe it or not, they are deliberately included as adjuvants, i.e. to increase the immune system's "response" to the vaccine.
Genetically modified yeast:

This is in the hepatitis B vaccine. Given the controversy over the ingestion of genetically modified foods, how much less safe, do you think, is the injection of them, particularly considering what follows below?
Foreign DNA:

This DNA is from such organisms as various animals, animal/human viruses, fungi and bacteria. It has been documented that the injecting foreign DNA can cause it or some of it to be incorporated into the recipient's DNA (see 'Immunisation' Against Diseases for Children). Remember, nature has not experienced such a direct invasion as this before, so can you be sure that it would have developed a way to protect your body against it?


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8319640 - 04/23/08 04:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

k


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8319920 - 04/23/08 05:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
k




Indeed


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8324332 - 04/24/08 07:23 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8324342 - 04/24/08 07:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Those are the three chems set to hit our supply in november.. :mad2:

They're fluoridating a water supply of which only 1% is actually drunk.
This is clearly not about teeth.


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

Edited by JonnyDeformed (04/24/08 07:26 PM)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8324424 - 04/24/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Linking to an MSDS isn't helpful. How about I show you an MSDS for ethanol and tell you that drinking alcohol will kill you? It's all about the dose.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8325622 - 04/25/08 01:00 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

is corrosiveness all about dose?


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8325626 - 04/25/08 01:03 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

is ethanol patented as a rodentacide?


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8325698 - 04/25/08 01:32 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Warfarin is a rodenticide, but taken in the right doses it's a very effective preventative measure against heart attack and stroke.
Acetic acid is corrosive, but at the right dose it's a useful food ingredient (vinegar).
It's always about the dose. To much of anything will kill you. But just the right amount can do wonderful things.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8325814 - 04/25/08 02:16 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

True, doesn't change the fact that i don't want the establishments fat feckn fingers in my water.
First fluoride, Sodium silicofluoride and fluosilicic.acid.
Then what?
It opens the door to other mass medications.


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8325869 - 04/25/08 02:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Those are all the same medicine.... and in any case, the slippery slope is a fallacy - you should be able to just consider the issue at hand without bringing hypothetical future scenarios into it.
The reason 'the establishment' decided to fluoridate water supplies is for the same reason it made seatbelts compulsory: if you give people a choice, they won't do it. Sad but true.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (04/25/08 02:39 AM)

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8326585 - 04/25/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Those are all the same medicine.... and in any case, the slippery slope is a fallacy - you should be able to just consider the issue at hand without bringing hypothetical future scenarios into it.
The reason 'the establishment' decided to fluoridate water supplies is for the same reason it made seatbelts compulsory: if you give people a choice, they won't do it. Sad but true.




I disagree. I wear my seatbelt because I don't want to die and seatbelts do nothing but secure my life. If the gov't made the same claims that fluoride helps our teeth then offered it in some way, there would be people that would do it and others who would be adverse to the idea.

What puzzles me is how can anything in water help your teeth? when I drink water it goes down my throat; I don't swish it around like I'm drinking fine wine.

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: fazdazzle]
    #8326698 - 04/25/08 11:33 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

It's small amounts of contact over long periods of time that's most effective. The fluoride in water is more effective than the fluoride in toothpaste. Seems counter-intuitive but that's what the research has shown; I figure that the process of forming the hydroxyfluoroapatite is a slow reaction.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water *DELETED* [Re: fazdazzle]
    #8326703 - 04/25/08 11:35 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: poke smot!]
    #8326738 - 04/25/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

That's interesting... can you find more details?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water *DELETED* [Re: zouden]
    #8326949 - 04/25/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: poke smot!]
    #8327326 - 04/25/08 03:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Lol you guys have fun with your rat poison.


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8327641 - 04/25/08 04:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Its a topical agent ffs...

next we'll have sunscreen in our water to prevent skin cancer...


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8327734 - 04/25/08 05:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JonnyDeformed said:
Its a topical agent ffs...

next we'll have sunscreen in our water to prevent skin cancer...




Our sunscreen is already bad enough on our skin. Anything that touches your skin for a long period of time WILL get absorbed.


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8327855 - 04/25/08 05:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Skin cancer is worse...


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8328173 - 04/25/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Skin cancer is worse...




That's why you regulate the amount of time you spend in the sun. If you are a white boy only spend maybe 15-30 minutes at most in the sun. If you're darker then obviously you'll need to spend more time in the sun. If you don't stay out too long you won't need sunscreen anyways. I think they sell all natural sunscreens if you need to stay out in the sun longer.


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8328214 - 04/25/08 07:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Skin cancer is worse...




Worse than what? Suncream which causes prostate cancer?

Quote:

Sunscreen use actually causes cancer, it doesn't prevent it, says exhaustive scientific research
by Mike Adams (see all articles by this author)

I've been saying this for years. Now the research is finally coming out to prove it: sunscreen use actually causes cancer, according to comprehensive new research published in the U.K.

There are two primary reasons why sunscreen causes cancer. First, and most importantly, the use of sunscreen blocks the skin from absorbing the sun's rays. That's what it's supposed to do, right? Yes, but in doing so, it also blocks the creation of all-essential vitamin D, the nutrient that the human body desperately needs to prevent as many as 25 chronic diseases. Notably: prostate cancer, breast cancer, osteoporosis, schizophrenia and heart disease.

It turns out that most people living in the Northern hemisphere (which probably includes you) are chronically deficient in vitamin D. By wearing sunscreen, they're depriving their bodies of perhaps the single most important nutrient they need to stay healthy.

The second reason sunscreen causes cancer is because it contains toxic chemicals in the form of artificial fragrance, chemical colors and petroleum products used as fillers and stabilizers. These chemicals are absorbed through the skin where they enter the bloodstream and wreak havoc on the immune system. Artificial fragrances, just by themselves, may contain dozens of carconigenic chemicals that damage the liver, the heart, and even promote systemic cancer.

Of course, the sunscreen manufacturers continue to deny all this while propagating the ridiculous myth that, "There's no such thing as a healthy tan." In reality, there's no such thing as a healthy pale person! A tan is a bonafide sign of good health, and a deep tan actually protects you from cancer.

All this has come out in this comprehensive new research report entitled, "Sunlight Robbery." To summarize the findings of the report, "To ensure optimum levels of vitamin D and optimum health people in the UK need to sunbathe whenever they can wearing as few clothes as possible while taking care not to burn. Vitamin D obtained from food provides only about 10% of our needs."

Well said. So much for the myth that sunshine is somehow bad for you.




http://www.naturalnews.com/z001264.html

Quote:

The sunscreen myth: How sunscreen products actually promote cancer
by Mike Adams (see all articles by this author)

The idea that sunscreen prevents cancer is a myth. It's a myth promoted by a profit-seeking tag-team effort between the cancer industry and the sunscreen industry. The sunscreen industry makes money by selling lotion products that actually contain cancer-causing chemicals. It then donates a portion of that money to the cancer industry through non-profit groups like the American Cancer Society which, in turn, run heart-breaking public service ads urging people to use sunscreen to "prevent cancer."

The scientific evidence, however, shows quite clearly that sunscreen actually promotes cancer by blocking the body's absorption of ultraviolet radiation, which produces vitamin D in the skin. Vitamin D, as recent studies have shown, prevents up to 77 of ALL cancers in women (breast cancer, colon cancer, cervical cancer, lung cancer, brain tumors, multiple myeloma... you name it). Meanwhile, the toxic chemical ingredients used in most sunscreen products are actually carcinogenic and have never been safety tested or safety approved by the FDA. They get absorbed right through the skin (a porous organ that absorbs most substances it comes into contact with) and enter the bloodstream.

The benefits of sunscreen are a myth. Proponents say sunscreen prevents sunburn, but in fact, the real cause of sunburn is not merely UV exposure: It is a lack of antioxidant nutrition. Start eating lots of berries and microalgae (spirulina, astaxanthin, blue-green algae, etc.), and you'll build up an internal sunscreen that will protect your skin from sunburn from the inside out. Sunburn is actually caused by nutritional deficiencies that leave the skin vulnerable to DNA mutations from radiation, but if you boost your nutrition and protect your nervous system with plant-based nutrients, you'll be naturally resistant to sunburn. The same nutrients, by the way, also protect the optic nerve and eyes from radiation damage. That's why the consumption of berries and carrots, for example, has historically been associated with healthy eye function. (The same nutrients that protect the eyes also protect the skin.)

Medical nonsense
If sunscreen is so bad for humans, you might ask, then why do so many doctors recommend using it? This might be hard for you to believe, but it wasn't too long ago that doctors routinely recommended smoking cigarettes, too. The Journal of the American Medical Association, in fact, ran numerous ads promoting Camels as "recommended by more doctors than any other cigarette!" Doctors talked up the "benefits" of smoking cigarettes, urging people to start smoking in order to improve brain function or even -- get this -- make their teeth stronger!

The truth is doctors are easily influenced by commercial interests and can be readily convinced to recommend practically any product, no matter how toxic, unhealthy or deadly to consumers. Just look at how many doctors wrote prescriptions for Vioxx, for example, after being visited by a Vioxx drug rep pushing it as a "miracle drug" for joint pain.

Also keep in mind that doctor-prescribed medications are the fourth leading cause of death in America today. About 100,000 Americans die each year from following the advice of their doctor. Does it really make any sense to get your health advice from a group of professionals who kill more Americans each year than all the terrorists have ever killed in the history of this country? Besides, doctors know that if they start recommending sunlight and vitamin D, they'll lose patients and profits because people will start getting well and have no need to keep visiting the doctor. Vitamin D, as you will learn in our free report, The Healing Power of Sunlight and Vitamin D, prevents not only cancer, but also diabetes, osteoporosis, depression, heart disease and obesity. It's the miracle nutrient of the millennium, and yet the entire medical profession tries desperately to pretend that vitamin D has no biological function whatsoever. Hence the support of sunscreen (the anti-vitamin D product).

Sunscreen directly promotes vitamin D deficiency. You show me a person who regularly uses sunscreen, and I'll show you a person who's on the road towards cancer and other degenerative diseases. People who use sunscreen are killing themselves and they don't even know it!

The sunscreen marketing con
The marketing of sunscreen is another great example of consumer product companies fabricating a need in order to sell a high-profit product made mostly with toxic chemicals. There is no need for sunscreen, but the cancer industry and sunscreen manufacturers have created a fictitious need through a campaign of fear and disinformation, hypnotizing practically the entire population into believing one of the most ridiculous ideas in the universe: that sunlight is bad for human health.

Think about it. Our ancestors did not have indoor lighting; they exposed their skin to the sun regularly. They didn't run and hide from the sun, they used it as nourishment to generate a crucial vitamin that supports human health in a multitude of ways. The idea that "the sun is bad for you" makes about as much sense as "water is bad for you" or "the Earth is flat." This persistent myth was invented, marketed and publicized by an industry that profits from a gullible public believing demonstrable falsehoods.

But why would the cancer industry go along with the deception, you might ask? Because the continued commercial success of the cancer industry depends on more people getting cancer. In previous articles, I've clearly shown that the cancer industry has no interest whatsoever in preventing cancer. The industry, in fact, takes steps to interfere with prevention efforts and thereby ensure the growth in the number of future cancer patients.

The American Cancer Society, for example, still will not recommend that anyone take vitamin D supplements, even though the vitamin can prevent nearly 4 out of 5 cancers. The cancer industry simply has no interest in preventing cancer. It is only interested in treating cancer and profiting from those treatments. (That's why genuine cancer cures have been routinely suppressed, censored or discredited in the United States.) Read my book, Natural Health Solutions and the Conspiracy to Keep You From Knowing About Them, to learn the shocking truth about how the cancer industry really operates in America today.

The promotion of sunscreen products is a way for the cancer industry to ensure future profits from the treatment of cancer. The more people use sunscreen products, the more they'll get cancer. And that's due to two primary reasons: 1) Sunscreen blocks vitamin D production, a nutrient that strongly prevents cancer, and 2) Sunscreen products almost always contain cancer-causing chemicals that are absorbed through the skin and enter the bloodstream where they cause severe DNA damage, leading to cancer.

Seven important questions about sunscreen
The next time you see some public service advertisement urging you to smother yourself and your children with sunscreen chemicals, think hard before taking action. Ask yourself these seven commonsense questions:

1) Is the sun really dangerous to humans? If so, how did humans survive for the last 350,000 years on planet Earth?

2) Have the chemicals used in sunscreen products ever been safety tested or approved by the FDA? (The answer is no.)

3) Who financially benefits when you keep buying and using sunscreen products?

4) What is the environmental impact of sunscreen chemicals washing off into the ocean, a lake, a swimming pool or being washed down the drain in your shower?

5) Sunscreen manufacturers say the skin doesn't absorb their chemicals. If that's true, then how do nicotine patches work? How do transdermal drugs get absorbed through the skin if sunscreen chemicals don't? (Answer: ALL these chemicals get absorbed through the skin. The skin is not selective about what it chooses to absorb.)

6) If the sun is so dangerous, then why is the vitamin generated by sunlight (vitamin D) so healthy for humans? Why would humans evolve a mechanism for generating a vitamin from sunlight if we weren't supposed to be exposed to sunlight in the first place?

7) If sunlight is so dangerous, then why is virtually every living creature on planet Earth dependent on sunlight for survival? Plants use sunlight to generate their nutrition, too, and most animals eat either plants or other animals that originally ate plants. Nearly all life on planet Earth is powered by sunlight. Why does the cancer industry believe sunlight causes death when, in reality, sunlight delivers life?

Once you answer these questions, the reality of the situation becomes obvious: Sunlight is good for you, and sunscreen is a hoax.

Action items
Be sure to read our free report on this: The Healing Power of Sunlight and Vitamin D. This provides tips on how to safely gauge your level of exposure to sunlight. Don't just rush out and get burned; boost your nutrition and work up a natural tan as nature intended.

See the article: Vitamin D slashes cancer risk by 77 percent.

Visit our topic page on Vitamin D.

If you choose to buy sunscreen, only buy natural sunscreen products containing no petrochemicals! One brand I recommend is Caribbean Blue Natural Basics "Sun Shield." You can find more at www.gocaribbeanblue.com

Smearing berries on your skin also works as a natural sunscreen, as does smearing aloe vera gel on your skin. Amazon Herb Co. distributors use a product called Camu C Serum as a natural suncreen. It works great! http://www.amazondreams.amazonherb.net

The best sunscreen, however, is an internal sunscreen built with nutrition. Eat chlorella, spirulina, goji berries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, astaxanthin, carrots and nutrient-rich superfoods to boost your skin's natural UV protection (takes about 30 days of nutrition to boost skin levels).




http://www.naturalnews.com/z021903.html

http://www.vvv.com/healthnews/dsunscre.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lauren-fornes/sunscreen-causes-cancer-_b_93916.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/313088/sunscreen_causes_cancer.html

Now, tangent aside, back to the issue. Why should I drink fluoridated water? Bearing in mind I like my teeth not to break apart and become mottled


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8328402 - 04/25/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Here's an interesting development over this side of the planet.

In a two month period our state government as prohibited medicinal plants, specifically lophophora but also any planet containing any illicit compound. This includes Acacias (our Nations Emblem). Whilst at the same time passing a bill which insures fluoridation, mass medication....

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/ACTS/2008/08AC004.pdf

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/fluoride/

What a wonderful world.


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dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8329260 - 04/26/08 01:10 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Milk is usually fortified with vitamin D in the northern hemisphere. There's definitely more than one way to obtain your daily allowance...

Quote:

1) Is the sun really dangerous to humans? If so, how did humans survive for the last 350,000 years on planet Earth?




Is it not true that ozone depletion since the Industrial Revolution has severely increased the amount of harmful UV rays passing through our atmosphere?

There looks to be a lot of bullshit (:tinfoil:) there, but so much of it (common with these... alternative theories) and so many wild claims that it's not even worth attempting to research every piece of information.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Cameron]
    #8329342 - 04/26/08 01:54 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

That Mike Adams guy seems to be quite off the mark. Anyone living in Australia will tell you that the sun is very fucking dangerous. People with European ancestry just don't have the melanin to withstand the amount of UV light we receive here. 15 minutes in the sun and you will start to burn. Do that too much and you will get skin cancer. Sunscreen saves lives.

The government has just passed a law banning solarium use for anyone under 18 because a girl got skin cancer and died from using one too much. In Melbourne. Personally I think they should ban all of them. There's no such thing as a healthy tan.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleelbisivni
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Shroomism]
    #8331601 - 04/26/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Unfortunately those videos no longer play.  I did watch the 1.5 hour vid posted by JonnyDeformed though, pretty interesting.  I'm glad to have been drinking water straight out of the earths water table the majority of my life, but I just don't know what to say about all of this :nonono:


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: elbisivni]
    #8331644 - 04/26/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

In many places (like Texas) the water is naturally fluoridated due to fluoride salts in the ground.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8333250 - 04/27/08 04:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
In many places (like Texas) the water is naturally fluoridated due to fluoride salts in the ground.




Naturally fluoridated with Hydrofluorosilicic Acid and Sodium Silicofluoride as well?


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dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8333251 - 04/27/08 04:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Are you guys really this brainwashed? Jesus Christ! Do you know what fluoride is and what it does when it enters your body? Do you know what's in vaccines? It's time to wake up and see what is happening right before you! The gov't doesn't give a flaming fuck about you!

Formaldehyde:

(Used in vaccines as a tissue fixative)

Aust. National Research Council: Fewer than 20% but perhaps more than 10% of the general population may be susceptible to formaldehyde and may react acutely at any exposure level. More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems, on at least 8 federal regulatory lists, ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health (Environmental Defense Fund).

It is not safe at ANY level.





This thread is full of inaccuracy, and this is a prime example.

How do you expect someone to have the endurance to read through this stuff when your arguments are fallacies from the gate, pepered w/ insults, and contain LONG and incorrect cut and pasts. What is this "unsafe at any levels" nonsense?

Garbage



an props for zouden for fighting the good fight

edit: to remove silliness

Edited by johnm214 (04/27/08 07:22 AM)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8333332 - 04/27/08 05:28 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

:laugh:
I try my best to fight the fear and superstition in this world.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8333473 - 04/27/08 08:18 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

It still doesn't detract from the fact that sodium fluoride is dangerous, makes teeth and bones brittle, is carcinogenic, causes brain lesions and was used as chemical warfare in German and Russian work camps.

Quote:

SICKNESS CONTROL 101: FLUORIDE - THE LUNATIC DRUG

"Earth is an insane asylum, to which the other planets deport their lunatics." --Voltaire(Memnon the Philosopher).

Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).

Sodium fluoride, a hazardous-waste by-product from the manufacture of aluminum, is a common ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, anesthetics, hypnotics, psychiatric drugs, and military nerve gas. It's historically been quite expensive to properly dispose of, until some aluminum industries with an overabundance of the stuff sold the public on the terrifically insane, but highly profitable, idea of buying it at a 20,000% markup, injecting it into our water supplies, and then DRINKING it.

Yes, a 20,000% markup: Fluoride-- intended only for human consumption by people under 14 years of age--is injected into our drinking water supply at approx. 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink 1/2 of one percent of the total water supply, the rest literally goes down the drain as a free hazardous-waste disposal for the chemical industry, where we PAY them so that we can flush their expensive hazardous waste down our toilets. How many salesmen dream of such a deal? (Follow the money.)

Independent scientific evidence repeatedly showing up over the past 50 years reveals that fluoride allegedly shortens our life span, promotes cancer and various mental disturbances, accelerates osteoporosis and broken hips in old folks, and makes us stupid, docile, and subservient, all in one package.

There are reports of aluminum in the brain possibly being a causative factor in Alzheimer's Disease, and evidence points towards fluoride's strong affinity for aluminum and also its ability to "trick" the blood-brain barrier by looking like the hydrogen ion, and thus allowing chemical access to brain tissue. Scientists who have attempted to blow the whistle on this mega-bucks PR ploy have consistently been given a very unscientific Black-PR treatment, and thus their valid points disputing the current vested interests never arrive in the press.




http://www.chattanoogahealth.com/PrintArticle.aspx?ArticleID=2137

Now ever since I was a kid I thought sodium fluoride existed in toothpaste as an antiseptic (it's toxic, toothpaste says to seek medical advice if you swallow it). I can understand calcium fluoride (which our body does need) being a useful substance, but sodium fluoride is poison. It started off as poison, it's used as poison, and it will always be poison.


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8334349 - 04/27/08 02:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:


Are you guys really this brainwashed? Jesus Christ! Do you know what fluoride is and what it does when it enters your body? Do you know what's in vaccines? It's time to wake up and see what is happening right before you! The gov't doesn't give a flaming fuck about you!

Formaldehyde:

(Used in vaccines as a tissue fixative)

Aust. National Research Council: Fewer than 20% but perhaps more than 10% of the general population may be susceptible to formaldehyde and may react acutely at any exposure level. More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems, on at least 8 federal regulatory lists, ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health (Environmental Defense Fund).

It is not safe at ANY level.





This thread is full of inaccuracy, and this is a prime example.

How do you expect someone to have the endurance to read through this stuff when your arguments are fallacies from the gate, pepered w/ insults, and contain LONG and incorrect cut and pasts. What is this "unsafe at any levels" nonsense?

Garbage



an props for zouden for fighting the good fight

edit: to remove silliness




First off you claim that my information is incorrect yet you didn't even show your sources. Secondly we're the ones fighting the good fight. Thirdly my information is right whether or not I insulted you.

So formaldehyde and sodium fluoride are safe right? Then why don't you go to your local hardware store and buy some rat poison with the active ingredient as sodium fluoride and brush your teeth with it? Oh wait, you don't have the balls to do it cause you know you are dead wrong and are not willing to admit your wrong. Go anally insert your healthy toothpaste as well.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8334421 - 04/27/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

1. anything is safe in a small enough dose. Saying something is unsafe in any dose is wrong. I don't care to find a source for this

2. Anytime you eat anything w/ protein you'll get formaldehyde in vivo. Hard to find a quick source, so here's a one written by somebody w/ a degree; http://www.tostepharmd.net/pharm/herbs/aspartame.html

3. There is again, like in 1, no way someone will react violently to formaldehyde every time, no matter what the dose. These people would constantly be experiencing this assault, as the phenylalanine in their body, as well as other things, are metabolized to formaldehyde

4. I never said fluoride is safe so your false choice (not drinking fluoridated water or drinking rat poison) is doubly erroneous. I'm saying your claims are flase, not your thesis.

5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've yet to put forth evidence that fluoride is dangerous in the levels advocated for, or that it causes brittle teeth in such levels. Point me to a specific experiment or study.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8334517 - 04/27/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
1. anything is safe in a small enough dose. Saying something is unsafe in any dose is wrong. I don't care to find a source for this

2. Anytime you eat anything w/ protein you'll get formaldehyde in vivo. Hard to find a quick source, so here's a one written by somebody w/ a degree; http://www.tostepharmd.net/pharm/herbs/aspartame.html

3. There is again, like in 1, no way someone will react violently to formaldehyde every time, no matter what the dose. These people would constantly be experiencing this assault, as the phenylalanine in their body, as well as other things, are metabolized to formaldehyde

4. I never said fluoride is safe so your false choice (not drinking fluoridated water or drinking rat poison) is doubly erroneous. I'm saying your claims are flase, not your thesis.

5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've yet to put forth evidence that fluoride is dangerous in the levels advocated for, or that it causes brittle teeth in such levels. Point me to a specific experiment or study.




1)Take just 1 microgram of polonium-210 and come back and tell me anything is safe in small doses.
2)That article you gave me doesn't relate to your claim and just because whoever wrote that has a degree doesn't mean shit...
3)Of course not everyone will react violently. This doesn't make it safe...
4)Name the claims I've made that are false.
5)http://yannone.blogspot.com/2007/03/rat-poison-city-adds-to-your-tap-water.html


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water *DELETED* [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8334534 - 04/27/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: poke smot!]
    #8335342 - 04/27/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

1. I said anything is safe in a small enough dose. a) 1 mg of polonium isn't a small amount; b) it's not a small enough dose. Are you really taking issue with this claim? That there is a level below which there are no harmful effects for a given substance?

2. Forget the formaldehyde thing, this is irrelevant to fluoride, and I did gie you the wrong link, like you say. Formaldehyde is produced in small amounts from normal metaoblism though, and if people reacted constantly to it at any level, they would constantly be reacting.

3. Stop equivocating. I said there is no way a person will react to anygiven amount of a substance, no matter how small a dose. Again, are you really quibbling with this?

4. #1 and #3 for one, and we'll see what evidence you have re: fluoride.

5. When I say show me an experiment or a study, I don't mean a blogspot page. Give me a citation to an experiment or study, such as an observational study of a population, and what that citation will prove, or a link is fine if its online, or an abstract is. Give me one citation, not a huge page of stuff jumbled together, not a bunch of links, one study/experiment.

This is usually where things break down, but all I want is one study, prefreably, for each of your claims.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8335407 - 04/27/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

fact: fluoride accumulates in the pineal gland.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/

ps. check out the links on the left.


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Edited by KrishnaDreamer (04/27/08 08:04 PM)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #8336635 - 04/28/08 03:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).



Holy shit please tell me that's a joke.

Did you know that fluoride is one of the main ingredients in Teflon? polytetraFLUROethylene? And that this is why people who have non-stick pans can't have children anymore?

Quote:

So formaldehyde and sodium fluoride are safe right? Then why don't you go to your local hardware store and buy some rat poison with the active ingredient as sodium fluoride and brush your teeth with it?



This is a joke too right? Do you not have any freakin' concept of toxicology? Do you even know what the word DOSE means? How about you go and buy some natural, health-giving vitamin A pills, from a friendly health-food store (make sure you chat to the staff about water fluoridation) and then go and take the whole bottle?
That yellow glow your skin will get is nothing to worry about, and the headaches and nausea will have nothing to do with those healthy vitamin A capsules you swallowed. I mean, people take them all the time and don't get symptoms like that. And there's no difference between taking one and taking 100.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8336853 - 04/28/08 07:49 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).



Holy shit please tell me that's a joke.
No joke!

Did you know that fluoride is one of the main ingredients in Teflon? polytetraFLUROethylene?
Yes, I've been aware for a number of years now. Other people are welcome to Telfon cooking utensils, the only place I have it is on the bottom of my mouse.

And that this is why people who have non-stick pans can't have children anymore?
That's a fantastic claim. You got some evidence to go with that?


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8336872 - 04/28/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

There's no sense in arguing with people who enjoy brushing their teeth with rat poison and drinking it as well in an unknown dose. Kthxbye!


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Invisibleelbisivni
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8338477 - 04/28/08 05:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
There's no sense in arguing with people who enjoy brushing their teeth with rat poison and drinking it as well in an unknown dose. Kthxbye!



I think you've just laid waste to any argument you've made thus far..


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8338860 - 04/28/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
There's no sense in arguing with people who enjoy brushing their teeth with rat poison and drinking it as well in an unknown dose. Kthxbye!




This is the kind of stuff that makes you look foolish.

You constantly fire back at anyone questioning your quackery that "oh so you like fluoride" Hey jackass, just cuz your claims are completely unsupported and someone points it out doesn't mean we like fluoride. That you fail to understand this, means you don't understand what people are saying, like me.

And I'll repeat, show me a study supporting your claims. Not a huge website run by a conspiracy fruitcake who's done no experimnets, a citation. It boggles the mind how you claim this is so clear, misconstrue the arguments as to proof and logical fallacy to be arguments for the mandatory fluoridation, and then fail to come up with any evidence whatsoever.

Show me a citation or shut up.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8339114 - 04/28/08 07:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"Recent information on the role of the pineal organ in humans suggests that any agent that affects pineal function could affect human health in a variety of ways, including effects on sexual maturation, calcium metabolism, parathyroid function, postmenopausal osteoporosis, cancer, and psychiatric disease.” "

SOURCE: National Research Council. (2006). Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards. National Academies Press, Washington D.C. p221-22.

check out the link i posted, they have other links on other health effects as well, along with articles/studies.

and besides fluoride theres other shit in tap water as well, such as pest/herbicides and shit they use in rocket fuel etc. your city should be sending you a report on water quality every year.


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #8339166 - 04/28/08 08:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry if I came across as an arrogant asshole. But to me it just seems all too obvious that sodium fluoride isn't good for you.


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #8339327 - 04/28/08 08:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
"Recent information on the role of the pineal organ in humans suggests that any agent that affects pineal function could affect human health in a variety of ways, including effects on sexual maturation, calcium metabolism, parathyroid function, postmenopausal osteoporosis, cancer, and psychiatric disease.” "

SOURCE: National Research Council. (2006). Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards. National Academies Press, Washington D.C. p221-22.

check out the link i posted, they have other links on other health effects as well, along with articles/studies.

and besides fluoride theres other shit in tap water as well, such as pest/herbicides and shit they use in rocket fuel etc. your city should be sending you a report on water quality every year.




That is not in the source you post, or at least its been removed. Where did you get that quote?

Nevertheless, that statement doesn't say that fluoride is bad, it just says that it may affect human health, which is pretty much what that section of the review you cite states, and recomends further study cuz we don't know shit

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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8339349 - 04/28/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Sorry if I came across as an arrogant asshole. But to me it just seems all too obvious that sodium fluoride isn't good for you.





Feel free to prove it at any point

I'm still waiting for this conclusive evidnce.

Give me a citation of the type I've asked for before, i.e. a citation that's not a vague website w/ conclusary allegations without clear evidence to support the claims.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8339815 - 04/28/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/

under summation - the first paragraph.

look on the links to the left too, fluoride has been shown to impair brain function in developing children. they have references to journals and whatnot too.


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #8340150 - 04/28/08 11:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

hmm, well i dont' know what to tell you. I read the paper on their website, so maybe they cahnged it, maybe I somehow got the wrong one, or maybe the website you post is lieing.

EIther way it wasn't really relevant to whether flouride has evidence that it'll harm you in the levels commonly in drinking water.


And as to your other point, of course it can hurt you, but i'm not sure there's evidence of such at recomended levels.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8340365 - 04/29/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Alright here's your damn sources brah. Dig in!

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/


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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
    #8340464 - 04/29/08 12:36 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

5. When I say show me an experiment or a study, I don't mean a blogspot page. Give me a citation to an experiment or study, such as an observational study of a population, and what that citation will prove, or a link is fine if its online, or an abstract is. Give me one citation, not a huge page of stuff jumbled together, not a bunch of links, one study/experiment.

This is usually where things break down, but all I want is one study, prefreably, for each of your claims.





at first glance it appears that page is a list of papers of various evidentiary quality.

Show me one experiment, or a review focuse specifically on the squestion at hand- cited to where it addresses this, and what you claim it specifically shows.

I'm not going to read a large website w/ embedded links.

Preferably a scholarly article in a neutral journal w/ experimental data.

One study.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8340703 - 04/29/08 02:01 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Did you know that fluoride is one of the main ingredients in Teflon? polytetraFLUROethylene?
Yes, I've been aware for a number of years now. Other people are welcome to Telfon cooking utensils, the only place I have it is on the bottom of my mouse.

And that this is why people who have non-stick pans can't have children anymore?
That's a fantastic claim. You got some evidence to go with that?



Do I need evidence? I just made that claim up and wrote it on the internet. Isn't that good enough?
I was sarcastically trying to show you that the presence of an element in a chemical does not mean you can predict the chemical's final properties. I mean, 50% of the salt in your food is chlorine - as used in WWI to gas soldiers!
It makes it difficult for me to take your arguments seriously when you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
One final question: would you allow your children to use fluoro highlighters at school?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (04/29/08 02:05 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
    #8341029 - 04/29/08 06:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

the presence of an element in a chemical does not mean you can predict the chemical's final properties.




This is a common fallacy that I see used over and over by the anti-drug crowd. The typical claim looks something like: "Drug XYZ is bad because it is made with drain cleaner and battery acid."


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