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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Shroomism]
#8331601 - 04/26/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Unfortunately those videos no longer play. I did watch the 1.5 hour vid posted by JonnyDeformed though, pretty interesting. I'm glad to have been drinking water straight out of the earths water table the majority of my life, but I just don't know what to say about all of this
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: elbisivni]
#8331644 - 04/26/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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In many places (like Texas) the water is naturally fluoridated due to fluoride salts in the ground.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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JonnyDeformed
ॐ
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Directlyundertheearthssun...
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
#8333250 - 04/27/08 04:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: In many places (like Texas) the water is naturally fluoridated due to fluoride salts in the ground.
Naturally fluoridated with Hydrofluorosilicic Acid and Sodium Silicofluoride as well?
-------------------- dubiousness Dubious compound it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
#8333251 - 04/27/08 04:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Are you guys really this brainwashed? Jesus Christ! Do you know what fluoride is and what it does when it enters your body? Do you know what's in vaccines? It's time to wake up and see what is happening right before you! The gov't doesn't give a flaming fuck about you!
Formaldehyde:
(Used in vaccines as a tissue fixative)
Aust. National Research Council: Fewer than 20% but perhaps more than 10% of the general population may be susceptible to formaldehyde and may react acutely at any exposure level. More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems, on at least 8 federal regulatory lists, ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health (Environmental Defense Fund).
It is not safe at ANY level.
This thread is full of inaccuracy, and this is a prime example.
How do you expect someone to have the endurance to read through this stuff when your arguments are fallacies from the gate, pepered w/ insults, and contain LONG and incorrect cut and pasts. What is this "unsafe at any levels" nonsense?
Garbage
an props for zouden for fighting the good fight
edit: to remove silliness
Edited by johnm214 (04/27/08 07:22 AM)
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
#8333332 - 04/27/08 05:28 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I try my best to fight the fear and superstition in this world.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Visionary Tools
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
#8333473 - 04/27/08 08:18 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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It still doesn't detract from the fact that sodium fluoride is dangerous, makes teeth and bones brittle, is carcinogenic, causes brain lesions and was used as chemical warfare in German and Russian work camps.
Quote:
SICKNESS CONTROL 101: FLUORIDE - THE LUNATIC DRUG
"Earth is an insane asylum, to which the other planets deport their lunatics." --Voltaire(Memnon the Philosopher).
Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).
Sodium fluoride, a hazardous-waste by-product from the manufacture of aluminum, is a common ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, anesthetics, hypnotics, psychiatric drugs, and military nerve gas. It's historically been quite expensive to properly dispose of, until some aluminum industries with an overabundance of the stuff sold the public on the terrifically insane, but highly profitable, idea of buying it at a 20,000% markup, injecting it into our water supplies, and then DRINKING it.
Yes, a 20,000% markup: Fluoride-- intended only for human consumption by people under 14 years of age--is injected into our drinking water supply at approx. 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink 1/2 of one percent of the total water supply, the rest literally goes down the drain as a free hazardous-waste disposal for the chemical industry, where we PAY them so that we can flush their expensive hazardous waste down our toilets. How many salesmen dream of such a deal? (Follow the money.)
Independent scientific evidence repeatedly showing up over the past 50 years reveals that fluoride allegedly shortens our life span, promotes cancer and various mental disturbances, accelerates osteoporosis and broken hips in old folks, and makes us stupid, docile, and subservient, all in one package.
There are reports of aluminum in the brain possibly being a causative factor in Alzheimer's Disease, and evidence points towards fluoride's strong affinity for aluminum and also its ability to "trick" the blood-brain barrier by looking like the hydrogen ion, and thus allowing chemical access to brain tissue. Scientists who have attempted to blow the whistle on this mega-bucks PR ploy have consistently been given a very unscientific Black-PR treatment, and thus their valid points disputing the current vested interests never arrive in the press.
http://www.chattanoogahealth.com/PrintArticle.aspx?ArticleID=2137
Now ever since I was a kid I thought sodium fluoride existed in toothpaste as an antiseptic (it's toxic, toothpaste says to seek medical advice if you swallow it). I can understand calcium fluoride (which our body does need) being a useful substance, but sodium fluoride is poison. It started off as poison, it's used as poison, and it will always be poison.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
Registered: 10/31/07
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
#8334349 - 04/27/08 02:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Are you guys really this brainwashed? Jesus Christ! Do you know what fluoride is and what it does when it enters your body? Do you know what's in vaccines? It's time to wake up and see what is happening right before you! The gov't doesn't give a flaming fuck about you!
Formaldehyde:
(Used in vaccines as a tissue fixative)
Aust. National Research Council: Fewer than 20% but perhaps more than 10% of the general population may be susceptible to formaldehyde and may react acutely at any exposure level. More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems, on at least 8 federal regulatory lists, ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health (Environmental Defense Fund).
It is not safe at ANY level.
This thread is full of inaccuracy, and this is a prime example.
How do you expect someone to have the endurance to read through this stuff when your arguments are fallacies from the gate, pepered w/ insults, and contain LONG and incorrect cut and pasts. What is this "unsafe at any levels" nonsense?
Garbage
an props for zouden for fighting the good fight
edit: to remove silliness
First off you claim that my information is incorrect yet you didn't even show your sources. Secondly we're the ones fighting the good fight. Thirdly my information is right whether or not I insulted you.
So formaldehyde and sodium fluoride are safe right? Then why don't you go to your local hardware store and buy some rat poison with the active ingredient as sodium fluoride and brush your teeth with it? Oh wait, you don't have the balls to do it cause you know you are dead wrong and are not willing to admit your wrong. Go anally insert your healthy toothpaste as well.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
#8334421 - 04/27/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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1. anything is safe in a small enough dose. Saying something is unsafe in any dose is wrong. I don't care to find a source for this
2. Anytime you eat anything w/ protein you'll get formaldehyde in vivo. Hard to find a quick source, so here's a one written by somebody w/ a degree; http://www.tostepharmd.net/pharm/herbs/aspartame.html
3. There is again, like in 1, no way someone will react violently to formaldehyde every time, no matter what the dose. These people would constantly be experiencing this assault, as the phenylalanine in their body, as well as other things, are metabolized to formaldehyde
4. I never said fluoride is safe so your false choice (not drinking fluoridated water or drinking rat poison) is doubly erroneous. I'm saying your claims are flase, not your thesis.
5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've yet to put forth evidence that fluoride is dangerous in the levels advocated for, or that it causes brittle teeth in such levels. Point me to a specific experiment or study.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
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Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
#8334517 - 04/27/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: 1. anything is safe in a small enough dose. Saying something is unsafe in any dose is wrong. I don't care to find a source for this
2. Anytime you eat anything w/ protein you'll get formaldehyde in vivo. Hard to find a quick source, so here's a one written by somebody w/ a degree; http://www.tostepharmd.net/pharm/herbs/aspartame.html
3. There is again, like in 1, no way someone will react violently to formaldehyde every time, no matter what the dose. These people would constantly be experiencing this assault, as the phenylalanine in their body, as well as other things, are metabolized to formaldehyde
4. I never said fluoride is safe so your false choice (not drinking fluoridated water or drinking rat poison) is doubly erroneous. I'm saying your claims are flase, not your thesis.
5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've yet to put forth evidence that fluoride is dangerous in the levels advocated for, or that it causes brittle teeth in such levels. Point me to a specific experiment or study.
1)Take just 1 microgram of polonium-210 and come back and tell me anything is safe in small doses. 2)That article you gave me doesn't relate to your claim and just because whoever wrote that has a degree doesn't mean shit... 3)Of course not everyone will react violently. This doesn't make it safe... 4)Name the claims I've made that are false. 5)http://yannone.blogspot.com/2007/03/rat-poison-city-adds-to-your-tap-water.html
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water *DELETED* [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
#8334534 - 04/27/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: poke smot!]
#8335342 - 04/27/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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1. I said anything is safe in a small enough dose. a) 1 mg of polonium isn't a small amount; b) it's not a small enough dose. Are you really taking issue with this claim? That there is a level below which there are no harmful effects for a given substance?
2. Forget the formaldehyde thing, this is irrelevant to fluoride, and I did gie you the wrong link, like you say. Formaldehyde is produced in small amounts from normal metaoblism though, and if people reacted constantly to it at any level, they would constantly be reacting.
3. Stop equivocating. I said there is no way a person will react to anygiven amount of a substance, no matter how small a dose. Again, are you really quibbling with this?
4. #1 and #3 for one, and we'll see what evidence you have re: fluoride.
5. When I say show me an experiment or a study, I don't mean a blogspot page. Give me a citation to an experiment or study, such as an observational study of a population, and what that citation will prove, or a link is fine if its online, or an abstract is. Give me one citation, not a huge page of stuff jumbled together, not a bunch of links, one study/experiment.
This is usually where things break down, but all I want is one study, prefreably, for each of your claims.
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KrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
#8335407 - 04/27/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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fact: fluoride accumulates in the pineal gland.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/
ps. check out the links on the left.
-------------------- Everybody's a ninja...
Edited by KrishnaDreamer (04/27/08 08:04 PM)
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
#8336635 - 04/28/08 03:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).
Holy shit please tell me that's a joke.
Did you know that fluoride is one of the main ingredients in Teflon? polytetraFLUROethylene? And that this is why people who have non-stick pans can't have children anymore?
Quote:
So formaldehyde and sodium fluoride are safe right? Then why don't you go to your local hardware store and buy some rat poison with the active ingredient as sodium fluoride and brush your teeth with it?
This is a joke too right? Do you not have any freakin' concept of toxicology? Do you even know what the word DOSE means? How about you go and buy some natural, health-giving vitamin A pills, from a friendly health-food store (make sure you chat to the staff about water fluoridation) and then go and take the whole bottle? That yellow glow your skin will get is nothing to worry about, and the headaches and nausea will have nothing to do with those healthy vitamin A capsules you swallowed. I mean, people take them all the time and don't get symptoms like that. And there's no difference between taking one and taking 100.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Visionary Tools
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: zouden]
#8336853 - 04/28/08 07:49 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Quote:
Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).
Holy shit please tell me that's a joke. No joke!
Did you know that fluoride is one of the main ingredients in Teflon? polytetraFLUROethylene? Yes, I've been aware for a number of years now. Other people are welcome to Telfon cooking utensils, the only place I have it is on the bottom of my mouse.
And that this is why people who have non-stick pans can't have children anymore? That's a fantastic claim. You got some evidence to go with that?
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: Visionary Tools]
#8336872 - 04/28/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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There's no sense in arguing with people who enjoy brushing their teeth with rat poison and drinking it as well in an unknown dose. Kthxbye!
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
#8338477 - 04/28/08 05:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
reeferaddict69 said: There's no sense in arguing with people who enjoy brushing their teeth with rat poison and drinking it as well in an unknown dose. Kthxbye!
I think you've just laid waste to any argument you've made thus far..
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
#8338860 - 04/28/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
reeferaddict69 said: There's no sense in arguing with people who enjoy brushing their teeth with rat poison and drinking it as well in an unknown dose. Kthxbye!
This is the kind of stuff that makes you look foolish.
You constantly fire back at anyone questioning your quackery that "oh so you like fluoride" Hey jackass, just cuz your claims are completely unsupported and someone points it out doesn't mean we like fluoride. That you fail to understand this, means you don't understand what people are saying, like me.
And I'll repeat, show me a study supporting your claims. Not a huge website run by a conspiracy fruitcake who's done no experimnets, a citation. It boggles the mind how you claim this is so clear, misconstrue the arguments as to proof and logical fallacy to be arguments for the mandatory fluoridation, and then fail to come up with any evidence whatsoever.
Show me a citation or shut up.
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KrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: johnm214]
#8339114 - 04/28/08 07:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Recent information on the role of the pineal organ in humans suggests that any agent that affects pineal function could affect human health in a variety of ways, including effects on sexual maturation, calcium metabolism, parathyroid function, postmenopausal osteoporosis, cancer, and psychiatric disease.” "
SOURCE: National Research Council. (2006). Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards. National Academies Press, Washington D.C. p221-22.
check out the link i posted, they have other links on other health effects as well, along with articles/studies.
and besides fluoride theres other shit in tap water as well, such as pest/herbicides and shit they use in rocket fuel etc. your city should be sending you a report on water quality every year.
-------------------- Everybody's a ninja...
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
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Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
#8339166 - 04/28/08 08:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sorry if I came across as an arrogant asshole. But to me it just seems all too obvious that sodium fluoride isn't good for you.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Don't be concerned about drinking fluoridated water [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
#8339327 - 04/28/08 08:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
KrishnaDreamer said: "Recent information on the role of the pineal organ in humans suggests that any agent that affects pineal function could affect human health in a variety of ways, including effects on sexual maturation, calcium metabolism, parathyroid function, postmenopausal osteoporosis, cancer, and psychiatric disease.” "
SOURCE: National Research Council. (2006). Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards. National Academies Press, Washington D.C. p221-22.
check out the link i posted, they have other links on other health effects as well, along with articles/studies.
and besides fluoride theres other shit in tap water as well, such as pest/herbicides and shit they use in rocket fuel etc. your city should be sending you a report on water quality every year.
That is not in the source you post, or at least its been removed. Where did you get that quote?
Nevertheless, that statement doesn't say that fluoride is bad, it just says that it may affect human health, which is pretty much what that section of the review you cite states, and recomends further study cuz we don't know shit
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