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Humble lurker
Stranger
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 169
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Reasons for having children
#8026441 - 02/15/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why do people want to have children?
Considering that our planet is over populated and theres plenty of children that need adopting/looking after then logically theres no good reason.
The only other reasons I can think of are instinct (physical desire) ego (mental desire)
Am I wrong? Whats missing here?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8026446 - 02/15/08 09:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humble lurker said: Why do people want to have children?
Considering that our planet is over populated and theres plenty of children that need adopting/looking after then logically theres no good reason.
The only other reasons I can think of are instinct (physical desire) ego (mental desire)
Am I wrong? Whats missing here?
I think you are correct.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8026490 - 02/15/08 10:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The only other reasons I can think of are instinct (physical desire) ego (mental desire)
These are the reasons why humans do ANYTHING. If not for physical and mental desires, we would waste away to nothing, lying in our own filth.
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Icelander
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Veritas]
#8026524 - 02/15/08 10:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, that one was pretty much a no-brainer. Even Kramer hates lying in his own filth.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/15/08 10:18 AM)
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WhiskeyClone
Not here



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8026537 - 02/15/08 10:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humble lurker said:
The only other reasons I can think of are instinct (physical desire) ego (mental desire)
Someone to help out on the farm?
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8026558 - 02/15/08 10:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That used to be a major reason for having children. Slaves. Other than that I think large families come from religious restrictions on birth control and the desire to live through and immortalize oneself using children. Also folk who can't think of what to do with their lives can keep pretty distracted for a long time with a large family.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Humble lurker
Stranger
Registered: 02/11/08
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8026587 - 02/15/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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True.
Another reason which is very common now, is accident. "We just had sex and didn't think about the implications."
So, what do you think about people having children for these reasons?
If we agree here, which we seem to, then it means people are having children for selfish reasons?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8026625 - 02/15/08 10:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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An "accident" is not a reason for having children, it is a reason for conceiving children. Once conception has occurred, it is possible to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption. Those who choose to keep children they conceived "accidentally" do so for the same basic reasons you've already mentioned.
BTW, we do everything for "selfish" reasons.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Veritas]
#8026735 - 02/15/08 10:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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BTW, we do everything for "selfish" reasons.
No, say it ain't true.
" I'm better than that, I know I am. At least, I think I must be." -Moody Blues
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Veritas]
#8026740 - 02/15/08 10:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
BTW, we do everything for "selfish" reasons.

Not everyone likes shellfish.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8026743 - 02/15/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Someone to help out on the farm?
And a new crop of warriors.
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xdzt

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 427
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8026747 - 02/15/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you're genetically elite it's only prudent behaviour to breed selectively and frequently in an effort to counteract the [to quote Harvey Danger] "stupid people breeding, the cretins cloning and feeding"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: xdzt]
#8026806 - 02/15/08 11:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
xdzt said: If you're genetically elite it's only prudent behaviour to breed selectively and frequently in an effort to counteract the [to quote Harvey Danger] "stupid people breeding, the cretins cloning and feeding"
This is the lie that most people tell themselves. The best excuse for passing on a damaged ego.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/15/08 11:18 AM)
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xdzt

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 427
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8026829 - 02/15/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: This is the lie that most people tell themselves. The best excuse for passing on a damaged ego.
Regardless, there must certainly be cases -- rare, admittedly -- where it's a valid argument for childbirth.
By the way, Jethro Tull ftw.
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Icelander
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: xdzt]
#8026856 - 02/15/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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There is ultimately no way to know for certain how a child will come out. Very,very,very few people are capable of raising emotionally/physically healthy children IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xdzt

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 427
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8026882 - 02/15/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You raise a very valid point that I hadn't considered -- the old nature vs nurture.
I agree with you completely upon revision. To raise a child well one needs to be prepared for a near-total sacrifice of self while maintaining a healthy distance.
You've converted me. I'm gonna lobby the government for random mandatory vasectomy to help curb over-population.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: xdzt]
#8026905 - 02/15/08 11:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Regardless, there must certainly be cases -- rare, admittedly -- where it's a valid argument for childbirth.
True. If one couple in 25 (I am being generous here) has it together physically, mentally, financially and emotionally, then 4% of couples have a valid argument for childbirth.
Duh!
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: xdzt]
#8026934 - 02/15/08 11:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
To raise a child well one needs to be prepared for a near-total sacrifice of self while maintaining a healthy distance.
Self-sacrifice is not a great child-rearing method. It tends to create a resentful parent & an entitled child.
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Icelander
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: xdzt]
#8026977 - 02/15/08 11:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
xdzt said:
You've converted me. I'm gonna lobby the government for random mandatory vasectomy to help curb over-population.
Five shrooms for you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/15/08 11:48 AM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8027007 - 02/15/08 11:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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'Blender sex' removed me from the gene pool long ago.
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Droz
Love of Life



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I want 10 boys and 10 girls, i want to build an empire!
Join me in knighthood.
I'll be the king and you be the jester!
Peace, Droz
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Droz]
#8027368 - 02/15/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I plan on having three children; one of each!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Male, female and hermaphrodite?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8027443 - 02/15/08 01:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Mainly for the ego. We have a fear of no afterlife and so want to leave behind a part of us, we want so much more of us in the world because we all think we're individually special.
Thats why some people have like 10+ children, they want so much of THEM in the world.
But its also part of an evolutionary ache for liberation to what is unspeakable. We are drawn to each other to reproduce and create, and evolve to higher consciousnesses.
SO people who have children with the right intention are not selfish, they are doing it for ALL not the ego.
Right intention in my eyes could be considered to raise a selfless being who spreads unconditional love to every being it comes into contact with for the unspeakable liberation of ALL.
But still the ego will be involved as we are egotistical beings, still evolving, if we weren't egotistical we have non human traits as we have evolved thus far aprtially for the unspeakable ache for liberation but also evolved to feed our egos.
No one without the other, otherwise we would already be liberated and would not be manifested in this form.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8027482 - 02/15/08 01:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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In my critical thinking class, the professor presented us with a logically consistent argument with the conclusion that anyone that has more than two children is essentially a murderer. It was a pretty good argument. Although I might not take it quite so far, I definitly think it's unethical and greedy. Of course, having one or two is fine, and I think I may even do it at some point. One anyways. I like to believe that I would actually be a very good mother, but it ain't happening until I'm in my 30's.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8027500 - 02/15/08 02:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not necessarily. If the parents are skillful I think they can grow their children in such a manner that (even if they don't have all the means to support them for a prolonged period) the children will learn how to take care of themselves and live an aware and happy life. As well as the other side of the coin, where parents with a single child will turn him/her into a retard. All I'm saying is that it's not a rule.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



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I want to have my own children because I think I have amazing genes, I would be doing this world a disservice by not having children.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: appleorange]
#8027613 - 02/15/08 02:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i want a perfect house, a perfect car, perfect kids and a perfect wife. and a perfect box filled with perfect goodies. it's the perfect dream.
which will most likely be shattered into bits
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: appleorange]
#8027641 - 02/15/08 02:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I need someone to fetch my beer.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Nah, just buy a mini-fridge & plug it in next to the recliner. You'll be set!
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Veritas]
#8027667 - 02/15/08 02:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: deranger]
#8027784 - 02/15/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: i want a perfect house, a perfect car, perfect kids and a perfect wife. and a perfect box filled with perfect goodies. it's the perfect dream.
which will most likely be shattered into bits
then your/we're having the wrong dream 
being attached to what seems like reality is where the shattered dreams come into it, as these dreams are based on an illusion, all perceived reality is a multidimensional illusion, it is a dream.
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Icelander
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Chronic7]
#8027807 - 02/15/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
chronic777 said: Mainly for the ego. We have a fear of no afterlife and so want to leave behind a part of us, we want so much more of us in the world because we all think we're individually special.
Thats why some people have like 10+ children, they want so much of THEM in the world.
But its also part of an evolutionary ache for liberation to what is unspeakable. We are drawn to each other to reproduce and create, and evolve to higher consciousnesses.
SO people who have children with the right intention are not selfish, they are doing it for ALL not the ego.
Right intention in my eyes could be considered to raise a selfless being who spreads unconditional love to every being it comes into contact with for the unspeakable liberation of ALL.
But still the ego will be involved as we are egotistical beings, still evolving, if we weren't egotistical we have non human traits as we have evolved thus far aprtially for the unspeakable ache for liberation but also evolved to feed our egos.
No one without the other, otherwise we would already be liberated and would not be manifested in this form.
Quite the cosmic post.
We are drawn to each other to reproduce and create, and evolve to higher consciousnesses.
Please explain, with some evidence, how we reproduce to evolve to higher consciousness.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8027879 - 02/15/08 03:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok to understand i need to say i beleive the whole purpose of intelligent life is beings that have the ability to liberate themselves to the unspeakable, it is impossible to have proof of this and always will be, thats why faith is the cornerstone of every religeon because god/the source/tao/nirvana can never ever be explained, only understood through experience.
So then i see that evolution has alot to do with this as we have to evolve & survive to become intelligent life capable of self liberation....so if we all stopped reproducing, so then all died then there would be no human consciousness.
And its just obvious, to me anyway, that consciousness evolves along with us.
So we need to keep reproducin, to keep evolving, to higher forms consciousnes, all the while working closer and closer to unspeakable eternal liberation.
You may think damn this dudes lost it, hes on some cosmic hippy crap, but all i wish for you and all including myself is this unspeakable enlightenment as i realise that is all there is, through direct experience.
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joker_man
Stranger



Registered: 11/14/05
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Don't Breed!
Quote:
If children were brought into the world by an act of pure reason alone, would the human race continue to exist? Would a man rather have so much sympathy with the coming generation, as to spare it the burden of existence? Or at any rate not take it upon himself to impose that burden upon it in cold blood. ~Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Sufferings of the World 1851
Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Chronic7]
#8027933 - 02/15/08 04:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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And its just obvious, to me anyway, that consciousness evolves along with us.
Really? How interesting. Would you say our consciousness has evolved since, lets say, the time of the earliest recorded human history?
By the way faith is a good reason to go on religious crusades and kill heathens. Faith doesn't have to be based on any real rationality. One can have faith in any kind of non-sense and put it forth without any real evidence at all, nothing more than the words "I believe". Somehow many folk here believe that when they say those two holy words it somehow becomes true.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/15/08 04:02 PM)
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Visionary Tools



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8028281 - 02/15/08 05:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humble lurker said: our planet is over populated
Proof please! Proof that's not from a pro eugenics/genocide think tank that gets off on killing people.
And as to why people want their own children, as opposed to adoption, is that selfish desire to see your lineage spread. If you want to fight countless generations of successful genetic programming, that you wouldn't be here without, then go for it.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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I've had dreams about things that happened to my Dad before I was born.
Those who don't have kids are left out of the collective genetic experiential memory database.
I'm waiting till I'm over 40 though...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Middleman]
#8028317 - 02/15/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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How did you dream before you were born?
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Everything is 'dream' actually.
But I meant we dream things that happened to our ancestors before they reproduced.
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Humble lurker
Stranger
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 169
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Veritas]
#8030787 - 02/16/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: BTW, we do everything for "selfish" reasons.
You should change "everything" to most "most things".
If say you'd die for someone you love then that is not selfish.
I would die for my sister to live if I had to choose.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8030805 - 02/16/08 10:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh god, not the same thing again. 
If you die for someone you die at the thought that they will keep on living, being happy or whatever else, and THIS thought makes you feel good. It is because of this thought that you are willing to give your life, and THIS thought feeds the self. Not that there's anything wrong with that, on the contrary it is human nature and HEALTHY.  As opposed to living with the thought that you're a martyr, which is the result of serious psychological issues.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8030808 - 02/16/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humble lurker said:
Quote:
Veritas said: BTW, we do everything for "selfish" reasons.
You should change "everything" to most "most things".
If say you'd die for someone you love then that is not selfish.
I would die for my sister to live if I had to choose.
Wrong. We do everything for selfish reason including giving up our lives for others.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8030851 - 02/16/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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aaah the old is there a truely an unselfish act debate 
buddhism could say that a bodhisattva is a being who is unselfish, yet the aim is for ALL to be enlightened, which includes yourself, so i dont think there really is a truely unselfish act, as we are all one, so even if your egolessly helping sumone else your still helping yourself 
as much as i dont want to admit it im with icelander on this one
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Icelander
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Chronic7]
#8030876 - 02/16/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's ok to be with the Ice once in awhile.
Being truly selfish is wonderful because you choose happiness and that usually means helping others. Most who are so called selfish are not really skilled at it IMO. They think serving their fear is going to bring happiness. It won't IMO but we all need to find out for ourselves even if we never learn their is a better way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8030923 - 02/16/08 11:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its all about being happy, and people who are happy choose to be happy, that is so true.
This usually goes hand in hand with what you said, helping others, which is still helping yourself
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Humble lurker]
#8031088 - 02/16/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why do people want to have children?
Most people don't think about it. It is acting without consciousness. I did this, but mine have turned out as conscious adults due to late intervention on my part. They are way more aware than I was at their age. It is possible to consciously choose to procreate and do it with awareness however. Part of that awareness should be the population.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8031104 - 02/16/08 12:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Being truly selfish is wonderful because you choose happiness and that usually means helping others. Most who are so called selfish are not really skilled at it IMO. They think serving their fear is going to bring happiness. It won't IMO but we all need to find out for ourselves even if we never learn their is a better way.
Yes!
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Xeny


Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 387
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8034917 - 02/17/08 02:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There is ultimately no way to know for certain how a child will come out. Very,very,very few people are capable of raising emotionally/physically healthy children IMO.
All children are healthy, they've been raised by this world and since I last checked, this world is a good thing. I don't deny there are no worthless parents. I'm only saying all children have potential, generally opposed by us, by lowlife scum, by this pretty world.
-------------------- Ik hou van je While you're still sleeping the saints are still weepin' cause things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born. -Scatman John
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Xeny]
#8035064 - 02/17/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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IMMORTALITY.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Xeny]
#8035779 - 02/17/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Xeny said:
Quote:
Icelander said: There is ultimately no way to know for certain how a child will come out. Very,very,very few people are capable of raising emotionally/physically healthy children IMO.
All children are healthy, they've been raised by this world and since I last checked, this world is a good thing. I don't deny there are no worthless parents. I'm only saying all children have potential, generally opposed by us, by lowlife scum, by this pretty world.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Xeny


Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 387
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Reasons for having children [Re: Icelander]
#8037807 - 02/18/08 12:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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By the way Icelander, great signature nigz
-------------------- Ik hou van je While you're still sleeping the saints are still weepin' cause things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born. -Scatman John
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