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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
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Bush's Africa Trip
#8025591 - 02/15/08 12:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bush Heads for Africa to Push Peace, Lobby for Expanded Relief Programs By Peter Baker Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, February 15, 2008; Page A16
President Bush vowed yesterday to use a week-long trip to Africa slated to start today to push for peaceful resolutions to conflicts in Kenya and Sudan, but he rebuffed calls to boycott the Summer Olympics in Beijing to pressure China into using its influence to stop the violence in Sudan's Darfur region.
Bush announced that he will dispatch Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Kenya to try to mediate a post-election rupture that has threatened to unravel what historically has been one of the continent's most stable nations. He also promised to "use all our diplomatic resources" to get a full U.N. peacekeeping force deployed to halt what he terms genocide in Darfur.
But shortly after delivering his speech previewing the five-nation trip, Bush told an interviewer that he saw no reason to use the Olympics to turn up the heat on the Chinese government, which has strong political and trade ties with Sudan. Activists have mounted an international campaign against China for protecting the Khartoum government from stronger U.N. sanctions. Just this week, Hollywood director Steven Spielberg quit as an artistic adviser to the Beijing Olympics in protest.
"That's up to him," Bush told BBC World News America. "I'm going to the Olympics. I view the Olympics as a sporting event. On the other hand, I have a little different platform than Steven Spielberg, so I get to talk to President Hu Jintao. And I do remind him that he can do more to relieve the suffering in Darfur."
The president dismissed the various interest groups trying to use the Olympics as a lever to press China on different grounds. "I mean, you got the Dalai Lama crowd. You've got global-warming folks. You've got, you know, Darfur," he said. "I am not going to . . . go and use the Olympics as an opportunity to express my opinions to the Chinese people in a public way because I do it all the time with the president."
Bush's trip to Africa will be the second of his presidency, although it came under a cloud yesterday when a battle with Congress over warrantless surveillance prompted him to offer to delay his departure if it would help settle the matter before a current eavesdropping law expires tomorrow night. Since Congress defied him and left town without passing the new legislation he sought, aides said he likely would still leave this afternoon as scheduled.
The trip will take him to Benin, Tanzania, Rwanda, Ghana and Liberia as he attempts to highlight his efforts to combat poverty, disease and illiteracy on the continent. Bush in his first term launched a five-year, $15 billion program called the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR, that has been widely praised for spreading treatment across Africa. About 1.3 million HIV-positive Africans now receive life-saving medication as a result. Bush also launched programs to increase education and fight malaria.
The president will use the trip to lobby Congress to expand his Africa initiatives, including another $30 billion for the AIDS program in its second five years. He said he will sign a $700 million Millennium Challenge Account contract with Tanzania, the largest so far in the program he created to steer money to developing nations that combat corruption and reform government. He announced an additional $875 million in funds for Africa by the Overseas Private Investment Corp. and said he will sign an investment treaty with Rwanda.
"In one of the major priorities of my presidency, the United States has fundamentally altered our policy toward Africa," he said in a speech at the Smithsonian National Museum of African Art. He added: "Paternalism has got to be a thing of the past. Joint venturing with good, capable people is what the future is all about."
Bush generally earns credit on Africa policy even among his opponents, but some remain critical of the AIDS program's focus on abstinence and argue that the additional funds he has requested will not really double the program. Some activists said U.S. investment is targeted more out of security concerns than the population's needs. "At a time when the U.S. is giving more money to Africa than ever before, our aid looks less strategic than ever," said Raymond C. Offenheiser, president of the relief organization Oxfam America.
Moreover, some critics complain that Bush has not done more to stop the killing in Darfur or paid enough attention to a spate of other conflicts in nations such as Chad, Somalia and Congo. The upheaval in Kenya following a disputed election has riven its society along ethnic lines, killed more than 1,000 people and dislocated another 600,000.
Rice, who will accompany Bush on the trip, will break off Monday to help former U.N. secretary general Kofi Annan broker a settlement between President Mwai Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga. The two sides issued conflicting statements yesterday about whether talks had brought progress. Bush said Rice will deliver a firm message: "There must be an immediate halt to violence, there must be justice for the victims of abuse, and there must be a full return to democracy."
On Darfur, the president acknowledged that the effort to assemble a full 26,000-member joint U.N.-African Union force to protect the local population has been mired in political inertia. Just 9,000 troops have been deployed so far and Sudan's government continues to play a destabilizing role, according to regional specialists.
International officials say Sudan actively supported rebels who tried to overthrow the government of Chad last month. And the Save Darfur Coalition, an alliance of advocacy groups, reports that military and militia attacks on towns in Darfur last week killed at least 150 people, displaced more than 12,000, and burned towns to the ground.
"I must confess, I'm a little frustrated by how slow things are moving," Bush said. "And yet we will support their efforts to find forces necessary to make a robust contribution to save lives."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021401922.html?hpid=sec-politics
I actually like this part of the Bush presidency. So the question is should we continue to send aid at current levels or what? Honestly, is anyone besides the U.S. even trying to help the world? I've seen the pie charts and it gets ridiculous with how much more we spend than the rest of the world combined. I would personally like to see an increase in spending because we get a lot of bang for our buck in africa as far as development. i would like us to mirror the chinese model and put some brick and mortar together.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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kidaihuan
First Growery Ban



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: SlashOZ]
#8025855 - 02/15/08 03:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bush + Peace?
No.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: SlashOZ]
#8026065 - 02/15/08 07:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The subtext of this trip is a clever public relations campaign designed to improve the image of the U.S. in Africa so it can plunder the last remaining oil deposits on the planet. Our military forces are committed elsewhere so we cannot go that route there. China is doing the same thing but has beaten us to the punch- hence the trouble in Sudan.
I am glad though that Bush has enough sense to not use the Olympics as a political tool ala' Jimmy Carter.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: zorbman]
#8026200 - 02/15/08 08:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The subtext of this trip is a clever public relations campaign designed to improve the image of the U.S. in Africa so it can plunder the last remaining oil deposits on the planet.
Since when does buying stuff at the price the seller sets equate to "plundering" that stuff?
Phred
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: zorbman]
#8026381 - 02/15/08 09:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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wrong wrong wrong wrong.
1. we have been giving aid to africa since JFK, think the peace corps which he started before assassination. China at this time was struggling to feed its own population because mao was busy fucking everything up.
2. Just because we get oil from africa doesn't mean we can't provide clean drinking water, build schools, provide AIDS/HIV treatment and prevention measures, vaccines, food, and a whole host of other necessities we take for granted here in the U.S. not mention we give aid to countries that don't even contain oil.
3. Bush increased aid funding to africa early in his presidency, before we were at war in iraq and afghanistan. it has nothing to do with us not being able to 'invade' africa to secure oil.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: SlashOZ]
#8026603 - 02/15/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said: 2. Just because we get oil from africa doesn't mean we can't provide clean drinking water, build schools, provide AIDS/HIV treatment and prevention measures,
actually, due to Reagan's Global Gag rule, a lot of organizations that provide AIDS/HIV treatment and prevention are cut off from US aid, if they also promote or provide information about abortion.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
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did you not read the article? I'm pretty sure it explicitly says that bush has given millions to provide HIV/AIDS treatment to over a million Africans.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: SlashOZ]
#8026994 - 02/15/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said: did you not read the article? I'm pretty sure it explicitly says that bush has given millions to provide HIV/AIDS treatment to over a million Africans.
I don't see how what I said negates what the article said.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: zorbman]
#8029077 - 02/15/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: The subtext of this trip is a clever public relations campaign designed to improve the image of the U.S. in Africa so it can plunder the last remaining oil deposits on the planet. Our military forces are committed elsewhere so we cannot go that route there. China is doing the same thing but has beaten us to the punch- hence the trouble in Sudan.
Beat me to it. It has to do with the Chinese and getting our fill of the continent that we already stole from and raped so much before it all gets swept by sand.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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God forbid that the United States ever went on a humanitarian mission with as much motivation and money as it went into war to protect economic interests that are more to the interest of those who benefit as certain corporations, not the economy itself....
People don't realize that if you focus on building up the poor and the suffering, it will return it a billion times over. We could save Africa if we started taking effective approaches towards actually doing so, instead of trying to kiss ass over there to establish some fake legacy. Some presidents actually had to earn it by standing for America, but more importantly the ideals it was founded upon.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: Phred]
#8029499 - 02/15/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Since when does buying stuff at the price the seller sets equate to "plundering" that stuff?
What I mean by that is that in certain oil-rich regions of Africa the people are miserably poor in spite of sitting on top of huge oil deposits. Their oil is being sucked through a straw to industrialized countries like the United States, bypassing the native African who sees no benefit from their OWN birthright of natural resources.
This is most evident in countries like Nigeria where "petroleum products are unavailable..and are quite costly, because almost all of the oil extracted by the multinational oil companies is refined overseas, while only a limited quantity is supplied to Nigerians themselves."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_Nigeria
This injustice is ironically feeding "terrorist" movements such as MEND (the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta).
The colonial powers have historically raped Africa and robbed it of its own resources, the most shameful episode being slavery. Today, neo-colonial powers extract "energy slaves" (otherwise known as petroleum) leaving the native population impoverished.
This is shameful and must stop. But as President Bush has said, "America is addicted to oil." Notice he has proposed almost nothing to remove our dependency. His actions say he wants to get at the last remaining deposits using America's superpower status. Not alternative energy. Not conservation. Lip service to those.
What does an addict do to get his fix? He will steal from his own mother to get that fix. Or in this case, Mother Africa.
If we are addicted to oil where are the 12 Step Programs, Mr. Bush?
Where is the sense of urgency? The economy is already tanking.
Even Al Capone put money into the local populace. It is a form of bribery, it creates goodwill so the fleecing can continue behind the scenes. Al was viewed as a philanthropist by many people who defended him.
(Watch what they do, not what they say).
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (02/15/08 11:36 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: zorbman]
#8030277 - 02/16/08 06:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
What I mean by that is that in certain oil-rich regions of Africa the people are miserably poor in spite of sitting on top of huge oil deposits.
Your point being?
Many in Africa are miserably poor despite sitting on top of huge gold deposits or diamond deposits or uranium deposits. Many are miserably poor despite sitting on top of some of the best cropland on the planet. The Ukrainians in Stalin's USSR were so poor despite sitting on top of the richest soil on the planet that several million of them starved to death -- literally.
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This injustice is ironically feeding "terrorist" movements...
So what do you suggest be done to fix this injustice? Refuse to buy oil from Nigeria?
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The colonial powers have historically raped Africa and robbed it of its own resources, the most shameful episode being slavery.
Nigeria ceased being a colony almost half a century ago. The Western world ceased buying slaves from Nigeria almost a century and a half ago. Yet in Nigeria people are still miserably poor. Do you think they remain miserably poor because oil companies operate in their country? Oh... wait... you said --
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Today, neo-colonial powers extract "energy slaves" (otherwise known as petroleum) leaving the native population impoverished.
So a customer who pays the price for a product that the seller requests is a "neo-colonial power"? When the same customer buys oil from Canada or Norway at the same price he buys it from Nigeria, is he still a "neo-colonial power"?
Is it your contention that the Nigerian poor would be less poor if these neo-colonial powers were to not buy Nigerian oil at all, but instead leave it in the ground? How does that work?
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His actions say he wants to get at the last remaining deposits using America's superpower status.
If by "using America's superpower status" you mean "buying it at market prices from willing sellers", your statement is accurate. Otherwise, not so much.
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Where is the sense of urgency? The economy is already tanking.
Actually, no. The economy is not "tanking". But if it were, getting energy from vastly more expensive alternative sources than fossil fuels wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.
Phred
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SirTripAlot
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Interesting conjecture.
Can you state a specific example of a country going on a humanitarian mission with as much motivation, like it was going to war?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: Phred]
#8030947 - 02/16/08 11:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 01:33 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Quote:
So long as we keep in mind that the 'seller' is a relatively small collection of corrupt bureaucrats & businessmen that live in luxury while a majority of their population lives in poverty, & receive a net negative benefit from the oil industry through environmental pollution & forced displacement at the hands of the state's armed forces.
Your point being?
Look... it's not as if the buyers of oil that used to lie under the ground in Nigeria are ripping off Nigerian villagers. The government of Nigeria decides under what conditions people may extract the oil within Nigeria's borders, and how big a cut those people have to pay to the government of Nigeria. Those companies don't get a say in how that money is spent. If the Nigerian government doesn't want to spend it on poor Nigerians, whose fault is that?
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Yes, the majority of the people in Nigeria would be much better off if they had a government that worked in the best interests of the majority instead of for the interests of the wealthiest 10%, which possess 90% of the wealth.
So you are saying the Nigerian poor would be less poor if no one bought Nigerian oil. That they would be less poor if the oil stayed in the ground. I can see them being at the very worst equally poor if the oil stayed in the ground, but I don't understand how they can be less poor.
Could you explain how that works, please?
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Over the past quarter of a century, poverty in Nigeria has spiked from around 30% to around 70% due to massive theft, corruption, & self-serving bureaucratic policy decisions that adversely affect most of the population.
And how is that the fault of the people who buy oil that came from out of the ground in Nigeria? Seems to me the fault is with the Nigerian government. What am I missing, here?
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There is something fundamentally wrong with a system where a government is spending more of its GDP annually to pay off foreign debts than it is spending on public health & education combined (as of 2000, the #s may have improved somewhat since then).
It seems that way to me, too. But could you please explain how the world stopping its purchase of Nigerian oil would make the poor in Nigeria better off?
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If anyone wants to rape Africa (& the Middle East), then just come out & say so.
Again, if you could just please tell us how buying Nigerian oil at the price the sellers set equates to "rape".
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If they really, really wanted to, if they were really the Christians they claim to be, they could see to it that the Nigerian government (which they are the biggest business partner of) utilize its oil profits to include all groups of people in developing a society with educational & economical opportunities that reduce poverty rates in Nigeria to the rates of the countries that consume most of their oil.
How could they see to it that the Nigerian government did that? By what process? Give us some specifics. While you're at it, please be specific about who you mean by "they".
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For rapists to claim they have the best interests of their victims in mind is morally repugnant, & certainly no real Christan would do it. If Jesus came back today, to the likes of Bush, Cheney, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, & corporate CEOs who profit from war & the poverty of others he would say, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Be melodramatic much?
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: Phred]
#8031926 - 02/16/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 01:35 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 01:35 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: SirTripAlot]
#8033455 - 02/17/08 01:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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SirTripAlot said: Can you state a specific example of a country going on a humanitarian mission with as much motivation, like it was going to war?
Of course I can't. That's the point - for a long time, the United States was looked up to as the respected world leader. Its up to us to set a high standard, and alleviating poverty worldwide is the greatest step towards evolution of this species. We're not talking about some stupid political ploy the likes of which only George W. Bush is capable of, but something more akin to honest intentions, which is likely something that hasn't been very pervasive in America's foreign policy in the last sixty-seventy years.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Phred
Fred's son


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Quote:
When one provides the both currency & arms to an entity, then they support that entity.
What are you talking about... "provides currency"?
Let's run this through one step at a time:
Who are the "colonial powers" buying their oil from? First of all, it isn't the "colonial powers" who are even buying the oil at all -- it is privately-owned companies from countries all over the world. Well... except in the case of Commie governments like Cuba and North Korea and China, but in your mind they don't count. Do you think US Congress strokes a check to Nigeria every month for X million barrels of oil? Fuck no they don't. So much for this "colonial powers" smokescreen or "ex-colonial powers" or whatever. And of course, the US never had a single colony in Africa to begin with. Or anywhere else for that matter, but let's move on.
So, now we have established who it is that's buying Nigerian oil. Now let's see who they are buying it from.
Since Nigeria isn't a socialist nation, the companies pumping the oil out of the ground aren't Nigerian. But they do pay a whopping chunk of change for the priviledge of pumping that oil. Almost 85% of the Nigerian government's revenue comes from the fees the oil companies pay. I ask again -- why is it the fault of the oil companies that the Nigerian government doesn't pass out this cash to its people? The sad fact is that the government doesn't, so the oil companies take it upon themselves to do that, too. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nigeria#Industry
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In the absence of government programs, the major multinational oil companies have launched their own community development programs.
But I'm sure that's not enough for you. No, you won't be satisfied till the oil companies pull up stakes entirely and leave the oil sitting in the ground for Nigerian villagers to use for themselves.
As for arms... what's the relevance of this? Are you suggesting the Nigerian government is seizing oil from Nigerian villagers at gunpoint?
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Even if they, in theory may have reservations about how it operates & conducts business (although I don't believe it bothers bureaucrats or businessmen in consumer countries at all), this amounts to nothing in practice, were they are providing the means for it to remain wealthy & in power at the expense of the majority of the population.
Providing the means? You mean like the billions of dollars in foreign aid provided by the US? You do know the US is by FAR the leader when it comes to foreign aid money given to African countries, don't you? I've been saying for decades that foreign aid to African nations should be stopped. Glad to see we agree on at least one thing.
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The Nigerian government is not a separate entity that exists in isolation from the governments/companies that buy its oil & sell it arms; they have a very lucrative working relationship, & both bear a share of the responsibility for the rampant poverty, human rights abuses & environmental abuses that occur & are present there.
Actually, yes it is a separate entity, and no, the folks who buy Nigerian products don't bear a share of responsibility. The Nigerian government wasn't installed by any of these companies or countries, and it isn't controlled by them either. These countries and companies don't set Nigerian government policy. It's not like the CEO of MegaPetrol sits down with the minister of industry and says, "We'd like to sign a three year contract to buy X million barrels of oil a year from y'all, but only if you'll agree to arrange that the minister of Health and Education continues to pilfer at least ninety four per cent of his department's budget for each of those three years."
Dude, what's your position -- that because corrupt and disfunctional kleptocratic governments use the money paid to that government to fuck over their constituents, the solution is to make sure these governments have no more access to money? Stop sending outright gifts of money, stop arranging for them to get loans the lenders have no hope of ever seeing repaid, stop buying any commodities or products from these countries if the government receives any part of the sale price?
Because if that's NOT what you're suggesting, the only other realistic alternative to stop this fucking over of poor African villagers by their governments is for some country (or group of countries) to come in and overthrow those governments and stick around long enough to see truly democratic government established in these countries. Is that your position?
In other words, we're faced with the same two alternatives used against Saddam Hussein -- economic boycott (which fazed Hussein not a whit, but is claimed to have been a real bummer for the regular Iraqi folks) followed by forceful removal from power (which I'm guessing you weren't a fan of).
You say I'm missing the big picture on this. On the contrary, Sparky. The big picture is dead simple:
-- the governments of most African nations are hopelessly corrupt -- the people who run those governments are stealing government funds which might otherwise be used to improve the quality of life of their constituents -- the only realistic ways to stop them from stealing government funds is to either make sure there are no funds to be stolen or to throw the bums out of office
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Even in the statement of mine you quoted, it is abundantly clear I did not say that.
Yeah, you did, but who gives a shit. None of it makes any difference to the Nigerians getting fucked over by their governments.
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If the consumers of Nigeria's oil.. the largest group being Americans... pressured the government of Nigeria by threatening to stop buying oil from Nigeria unless it made a serious effort to reduce poverty, & if they pressured their oil companies in the form of crippling fines for not disposing of wastes & managing pollution in a more sustainable manner, then the problem could be begin to be resolved in a real manner, not simply superficial concern & empty pledges that are contradicted by one's actions. Of course this would require the will of oil companies, oil consumers & the Nigerian government... none of which have that will right now because it's not in their short-term economic interests, but to pretend there is no alternative to what exists now is just a pathetic attempt to rationalize blatant injustice & exploitation.
So you're saying the solution is a voluntary boycott by American consumers. Yeah... that'll work. As if China wouldn't instantly snap up whatever oil Americans decide to pass on.
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Bush's Africa Trip [Re: Phred]
#8035890 - 02/17/08 10:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 01:36 PM)
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