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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: LeftyBurnz]
#8028590 - 02/15/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Very true. I could go out and get an unregistered automatic weapon right now. New laws wouldn't change that.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: robbyberto]
#8028639 - 02/15/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
robbyberto said: Very true. I could go out and get an unregistered automatic weapon right now. New laws wouldn't change that.
no sir they wouldnt. if two decent americans such as ourselves have access to black market weapons, just how many hardened criminals do you think can? more than our governments could dream of stopping.
sadly enough, if they ever take away our 2nd amendment rights, i will be a criminal, because there is no way i am giving up guns.
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anyone420
mad buddah abuser



Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 5,956
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: heartofalion]
#8028693 - 02/15/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rest in peace to the fallen -
I hold the weed too long when i think about all the things gone wrong with the world today.
This dutch is in your memory
-------------------- for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright
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Idiot
I Am Moron!



Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 6,554
Loc: 41.90231, 12.45390
Last seen: 7 days, 19 hours
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: robbyberto]
#8028805 - 02/15/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Gun law debates are weird. I see positives and negatives from both sides.
If you ban/destroy guns completely: Criminals will still have guns but they won't be able to get them as easily. Those responsible gun carriers wont be able to carry to protect themselves. Less lethal but still lethal home-made weapons will be produced for protection/criminal acts.
If responsible carriers are trusted to carry: Those in need of being saved from a gun toting ass hole are more likely to receive help worth receiving. Criminals can grab boxes of guns off the back of trucks, off trains and use/sell them for criminal reasons.
Personally, I would go for no/destruction of guns. Unfortunately responsible carriers (including police) are afraid to give up their guns. These responsible carriers also fail to see how easy it is for a responsible carrier to become an irresponsible carrier. Whether its "This mother fucker stole twenty bucks from me", "This ass hole fucked my girlfriend", or some misunderstood words from one drunk to another a responsible gun carrier is capable of pulling that trigger in the heat of the moment for a very bad/no reason.
Those who do carry responsibly are afraid of the blood shed that might ensue from illegalization, which is feasible. But by keeping guns legal its just prolonging the steady trickle of blood that is occurring. People don't realize it may take more that one or two generations for the effects of illegalization to take effect. We should be concerned about future generations rather than the here and now. We may die by our own devices but our children's children wont. And when that crazy psychopath that wants to kill 25 people can't cause hes not capable of making a weapon to take out that many people before that many people can take him out decides against his plan to kill 25 people then the positives of illigalization will be present, but probably unnoticed.
-------------------- Customize your Shroomery experience! Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8028839 - 02/15/08 07:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Criminalizing private gun ownership is not going to stop criminals from getting guns. It wouldn't even slow them down. People don't pull guns very often over petty things. Doing so will result in a felony charge. That argument is pretty worthless. Criminalization will only stop responsible and recreational shooters from using firearms. Seriously, if a crazy wants to get a gun, nothing is going to stop him. He could simply get on the internet, buy a disabled automatic WW2 weapon, and if he has some machining skills or knows someone who does he will have an unregistered automatic weapon. No laws will hinder that process. Taking away any freedom we still have left is a step in the wrong direction.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8028845 - 02/15/08 07:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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most illegal guns come from outside of the country. the flow wont slow until the border is airtight. which it never will be. there will always be crazy fucks willing to risk everything to run shit through the desert/forest/coast to make some money. 
and i cannot argue the fact that some responsible carriers become irresponsible carriers. good people do turn around and murder people and etc. but you cant take everyones rights away because of a few.
more people are killed because of DUI and hit and run every year than guns ever have and ever will kill. are we going to ban cars?
responsibility lies in the hands of the person, we dont need the government taking away our rights(unless rightfully so after a crime is committed) any more than they already have.
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Idiot
I Am Moron!



Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 6,554
Loc: 41.90231, 12.45390
Last seen: 7 days, 19 hours
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: LeftyBurnz]
#8028940 - 02/15/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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To tell you the truth, if a vote to criminalize guns were to come up, I probably wouldn't vote. I'm kind of on a teetering point on this issue.
When you talk about DUI hit & runs you're talking about unintentional killings mostly. Most shootings are premeditated; most DUI hit & runners are trying to get home not trying to kill.
I'm not saying that criminalization will bring an immediate end to firearm related crimes. It might even bring a rise in them, for a while, but as more and more guns are found and removed from circulation fewer and fewer crimes will be committed.
I'm not up to date on the latest firearms statistics in Europe but it seems that they do very well without them. Killing must be more difficult without firearms.
Quote:
Idiot said:
Those who do carry responsibly are afraid of the blood shed that might ensue from illegalization, which is feasible. But by keeping guns legal its just prolonging the steady trickle of blood that is occurring. People don't realize it may take more that one or two generations for the effects of illegalization to take effect. We should be concerned about future generations rather than the here and now. We may die by our own devices but our children's children wont. And when that crazy psychopath that wants to kill 25 people can't cause hes not capable of making a weapon to take out that many people before that many people can take him out decides against his plan to kill 25 people then the positives of illigalization will be present, but probably unnoticed.
-------------------- Customize your Shroomery experience! Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8028958 - 02/15/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said: To tell you the truth, if a vote to criminalize guns were to come up, I probably wouldn't vote. I'm kind of on a teetering point on this issue.
When you talk about DUI hit & runs you're talking about unintentional killings mostly. Most shootings are premeditated; most DUI hit & runners are trying to get home not trying to kill.
I'm not saying that criminalization will bring an immediate end to firearm related crimes. It might even bring a rise in them, for a while, but as more and more guns are found and removed from circulation fewer and fewer crimes will be committed.
I'm not up to date on the latest firearms statistics in Europe but it seems that they do very well without them. Killing must be more difficult without firearms.
Because bats, fists, knifes, brass knuckles, and various other blunt objects won't work well enough? Regular people will just kill each other differently. Different means to the same end. Criminals will still be shooting themselves.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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Idiot
I Am Moron!



Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 6,554
Loc: 41.90231, 12.45390
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: robbyberto]
#8028968 - 02/15/08 07:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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.....I'm not saying criminalization will remove the ability to kill, but it will in fact prevent one from killing 25 people in one sitting. People will always kill people, but people can't keep going around killing everyone.
-------------------- Customize your Shroomery experience! Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8028976 - 02/15/08 07:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why would it prevent that from happening? It's not difficult to acquire illegal weapons. From handguns to machine pistols to assault rifles, they can all be found illicitly fairly easily. Why would any legislation change that?
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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LayYouIn
Taurus


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8029013 - 02/15/08 08:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i read that this was the 4th school school in one week.
could it be the recession?
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: LayYouIn]
#8029042 - 02/15/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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Idiot
I Am Moron!



Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 6,554
Loc: 41.90231, 12.45390
Last seen: 7 days, 19 hours
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: robbyberto]
#8029066 - 02/15/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
People don't realize it may take more that one or two generations for the effects of illegalization to take effect. We should be concerned about future generations rather than the here and now. We may die by our own devices but our children's children wont.
Just like its taking more than ten years to remove the two dollar bill from circulation it will take a long time to remove guns from black markets and markets. It just needs a beginning, a first step, something to start preventing these mass killings.
-------------------- Customize your Shroomery experience! Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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anyone420
mad buddah abuser



Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 5,956
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: robbyberto]
#8029071 - 02/15/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'll say this and only this about the guns issue, because i usually am too high to give a shit about anything -
Prohibition takes guns away from everyone but the criminals. If you want to impose legislation that would eliminate all firearms from the united states period, then your living on pluto.
Everyone should have the ability to carry a firearm at all times. If all of the kids in the lecture hall had concealed pistols, the gunman would probably be the only one dead.
Excuse that little taste of sobriety - back to the ritual.
-------------------- for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8029074 - 02/15/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said: To tell you the truth, if a vote to criminalize guns were to come up, I probably wouldn't vote. I'm kind of on a teetering point on this issue.
When you talk about DUI hit & runs you're talking about unintentional killings mostly. Most shootings are premeditated; most DUI hit & runners are trying to get home not trying to kill.
I'm not saying that criminalization will bring an immediate end to firearm related crimes. It might even bring a rise in them, for a while, but as more and more guns are found and removed from circulation fewer and fewer crimes will be committed.
I'm not up to date on the latest firearms statistics in Europe but it seems that they do very well without them. Killing must be more difficult without firearms.
Quote:
Idiot said:
Those who do carry responsibly are afraid of the blood shed that might ensue from illegalization, which is feasible. But by keeping guns legal its just prolonging the steady trickle of blood that is occurring. People don't realize it may take more that one or two generations for the effects of illegalization to take effect. We should be concerned about future generations rather than the here and now. We may die by our own devices but our children's children wont. And when that crazy psychopath that wants to kill 25 people can't cause hes not capable of making a weapon to take out that many people before that many people can take him out decides against his plan to kill 25 people then the positives of illigalization will be present, but probably unnoticed.
doesnt matter if dui and hit and run manslaughter is premeditated or not, the fact is, they made the concious decision to get into the vehicle and drive knowing they should not. might as well be premeditated, everyone knows what can and does happen when you drive drunk.
last i heard gun crime hasnt changed much since they were banned in britain. they have the same problem we do over here, the guns are being trafficked in under the radar from other countries. its like digging a hole at the beach, you can pull as much sand out as you want, but more is just going to fill the void.
i simply cannot agree with the argument that illegalization will fix the problem, because once again, it all boils back down to the individual. if a man or woman has their intentions set on murdering someone it doesnt matter what they have to do it, they will do it. take away their guns, theyll use knives, take away their knives theyll use sticks, take away those and theyll resort to rocks. there are thousands upon thousands of day to day items that can be used for murder. are we going to start banning them all?
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8029079 - 02/15/08 08:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you only support freedoms that you approve of? You will never stop the black market. It's too profitable. Making guns illegal will only make the them more valuable on the black market. This same concept applies to illegal drugs.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8029091 - 02/15/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said: .....I'm not saying criminalization will remove the ability to kill, but it will in fact prevent one from killing 25 people in one sitting. People will always kill people, but people can't keep going around killing everyone.
i could rig up an air powered nail gun right now to the point that the nails would fire more rapidly and with 3-4 times the original power, hook that to a tank in a backpack and you can do close to the damage these people have done.
it is also not hard to make simple yet powerful pipe bombs.
a vehicle could take out a number of people.
there are numerous ways one could still kill many.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: Idiot]
#8029097 - 02/15/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said:
Quote:
People don't realize it may take more that one or two generations for the effects of illegalization to take effect. We should be concerned about future generations rather than the here and now. We may die by our own devices but our children's children wont.
Just like its taking more than ten years to remove the two dollar bill from circulation it will take a long time to remove guns from black markets and markets. It just needs a beginning, a first step, something to start preventing these mass killings.
noone else in the world prints $2 american bills.
many many other people manufacture weapons in many other countries.
the drug war has worked quite well wouldnt you say?? noone does drugs anymore right?
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LayYouIn
Taurus


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: anyone420]
#8029098 - 02/15/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
anyone420 said: Everyone should have the ability to carry a firearm at all times. If all of the kids in the lecture hall had concealed pistols, the gunman would probably be the only one dead.
no, he would have most likely killed at least one person and probley would have wounded another. but yes, the scene wouldn't have been so bad and we wouldn't end up with someone eating our tax money in prison.
as far as guns go...wasn't there a country that outlawed guns and then the government start killing the people and the people had no way to fight back?
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Several shot, details emerging [Re: LayYouIn]
#8029112 - 02/15/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
LayYouIn said: as far as guns go...wasn't there a country that outlawed guns and then the government start killing the people and the people had no way to fight back?
hmmm........ nope cant think of any.
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