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OfflinePhred
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Obama's speechifyin'
    #8022535 - 02/14/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Here's some excerpts from an editorial I found interesting. In fairness to the author I'm not going to cut and paste the whole thing here, but I will say anyone with any interest in the upcoming election really should read the whole thing. He makes some astute observations.

From http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120295124554366927.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries --


Quote:

Hillary Clinton probably didn't watch the stem-winder speech that Barack Obama delivered Tuesday night after cleaning her clock in the Potomac primaries. If not, she should.

It was tiresome.

The speech was classic Obama. Beautifully written and beautifully delivered, the words soaring to the rafters of a Madison, Wis., auditorium filled mostly with 17,000 cheering students. The rookie senator had just come off blowouts of Hillary in Virginia and Maryland.

The senator's charisma and appeal has been undeniable. He is almost insanely eloquent. Still, about halfway into this (very long) speech, the feeling was hard to shake: This is getting hard to listen to. Again and again.




and


Quote:

Listen closely to that Tuesday night Wisconsin speech. Unhinge yourself from the mesmerizing voice. What one hears is a message that is largely negative, illustrated with anecdotes of unremitting bleakness. Heavy with class warfare, it is a speech that could have been delivered by a Democrat in 1968, or even 1928.

Here is the edited version, stripped of the flying surfboard:

"Our road will not be easy . . . the cynics. . . where lobbyists write check after check and Exxon turns record profits . . . That's what happens when lobbyists set the agenda. . . It's a game where trade deals like Nafta ship jobs overseas and force parents to compete with their teenagers to work for minimum wage at Wal-Mart . . . It's a game . . . CEO bonuses . . . while another mother goes without health care for her sick child . . . We can't keep driving a wider and wider gap between the few who are rich and the rest who struggle to keep pace . . . even if they're not rich . . ."




and

Quote:

I am not saying all of this is false. But it is a depressing message to ride all the way to the White House.




and

Quote:

Right after the Wisconsin speech, TV broadcast another -- by victorious John McCain. The contrast with Sen. Obama's is stark. The arc of the McCain speech is upward, positive. Pointedly, he says we are not history's "victims." Barack relentlessly pushes victimology.




Of course Obama embraces victimology. He's a Libbie -- the most liberal senator in Congress. Problem is, In late December, Gallup released a poll in which 84% of respondents said they were satisfied with their own lives. Sooner or later a large chunk of those people are going to realize the whole "Grapes of Wrath" schtick Obama drones on and on about bears no relation to their own lives or to the lives of anyone else they know.

Anyway, it's worth reading the whole article. Click on the link. You know you want to.




Phred


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Phred]
    #8022640 - 02/14/08 02:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Here is the edited version, (of Obama's speech) stripped of the flying surfboard:

"Our road will not be easy . . . the cynics. . . where lobbyists write check after check and Exxon turns record profits . . . That's what happens when lobbyists set the agenda. . . It's a game where trade deals like Nafta ship jobs overseas and force parents to compete with their teenagers to work for minimum wage at Wal-Mart . . . It's a game . . . CEO bonuses . . . while another mother goes without health care for her sick child . . . We can't keep driving a wider and wider gap between the few who are rich and the rest who struggle to keep pace . . . even if they're not rich . . ."





Now, I wonder why someone writing for a Corporate / Big Buisness Publication like The Wall Street Journal would be writing negative  pieces against Obama??



:rolleyes:

And isn't speechifyin' sorta like signifyin'?

Seems a bit racist, Phred.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: blackegg]
    #8022644 - 02/14/08 02:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Did you read the editorial?




Phred


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Phred]
    #8022674 - 02/14/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

In the bits of his speech you quoted above he's acknowledging that the state is negative, but that "they're" going to face and work against the negative state. That's a positive message.
That aside, you don't get points for sounding sunshine & bouncy. If that's all someone does, they must be failing to address the many negative states that currently exist.

And I didn't read the article beyond what you posted, but if the summary's the same, there's nothing negative to care about here.

example:

"Our road will not be easy . . . the cynics. . . where lobbyists write check after check and Exxon turns record profits"

break down: the road will not be easy because it is in contrast to the current negative states he goes on to list. Therefore, his road is positive. That he acknowledges the road as difficult, yet choses to stand by it is encouragement and dedication. This is a positive message.

"We can't keep driving a wider and wider gap between the few who are rich and the rest who struggle to keep pace"

break down: we can't keep doing something that's negative - a positive statement.

He identifies negative things, but identifies them as things he opposes. Therefore his message is positive.


I think that the article's writer making note of these things is akin to the line in Anchor Man, "LOUD NOISES!!!," where the content of the loud noises is not recognized or understood.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8022739 - 02/14/08 02:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So you didn't read the editorial. Why am I not surprised?




Phred


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Phred]
    #8022785 - 02/14/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know, you tell me why you aren't surprised. If you're up to it, maybe explain why you can't do a better job of making a content relevant post while you're at it - if what you posted above in fact fails to make and explain your point. You shouldn't get your panties in a snit over a response which acknowledges:
And I didn't read the article beyond what you posted, but if the summary's the same...

Most people wouldn't, you know.

Of course, having now read the article, my previous response was dead on. This article's complaint is about on par with "Che Guevara Flags in Obama's Houston Office" (and no, if it were McCain's volunteer office nobody would give half a rats ass either).

Thanks for the contribution.


Edited by Disco Cat (02/14/08 03:34 PM)


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: blackegg]
    #8022809 - 02/14/08 03:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:


Now, I wonder why someone writing for a Corporate / Big Buisness Publication like The Wall Street Journal would be writing negative  pieces against Obama??



:rolleyes:

And isn't speechifyin' sorta like signifyin'?

Seems a bit racist, Phred.




saying the wall street journal is written for big buisness and corporate america is like sying the New York times in worthless to anyone who doesn't live in New York, it makes no sense, and makes me think your not familiar with the publication.


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8022810 - 02/14/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:rofl2::haha:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8022833 - 02/14/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

hmm, Phred

You spying on me, you sneaky bastard

I clicked on the link agnd get a popup:

"Opening interactive.wsj.com


You have chosen to open interactive.wsj.com
from:  http://ad.doubleclick.net

Would you like to save this file?"


I'm on to you buster....  :waits:




anyways... reading the article I kinda come to a "so what" conclusion


yeah obama is sometimes depressing, probably more so than mccain, perhaps hillary...

but this would be expected (relative to McCain) given the unpopularity of our current president, and his party.

Of course he'd try to leverage the widely held belief that Bush was bad for this country in at least one major way (Iraq and the corporate favoritism alleged to have occurred w/ contractors and oil companies, the later simply being consequential).

I'd imagine every opponent of a lame duck president would be putting a negative spin on the country's direction, otherwise, why do we need to change parties?  This is all the more easy w/ Bush's approval ratings being so low- around 2/3 dissaprove.


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8022845 - 02/14/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cubie said:
:rofl2::haha:




hes got you tracked. theres no escaping now!:macdre:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Phred]
    #8022856 - 02/14/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change


:sleep:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8022871 - 02/14/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change
Change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change change


:sleep:


:hammertime:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8022918 - 02/14/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)





Obama theme song


mindless fools.....


Edited by lonestar2004 (02/14/08 05:12 PM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8023262 - 02/14/08 05:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"Failure to launch."


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OfflineSmackshadow
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8023274 - 02/14/08 05:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is bogus, I was at the Obama rally in Madison WI. It was not a negative speech. It points out contrast between his platform and the current republican platform. It was by-enlarge a positive speech. He spoke over and over again, about ways to improve the state of our union. Blazing new paths, and not settling for what is easy. He talked of cooperation between people of all race, economic class, and even political parties.

Saying that Obama is charismatic but nothing else is just another way of pigeon holeing Obama, and framing the debate.

Quote:

84% of respondents said they were satisfied with their own lives.




It has been my experience that people can be content even in very bad conditions. Even if things are ok relative to the big picture, isn't progress trying to make things better? Isn't it our job as Americans to make America better even if we are the best country on Earth?


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Smackshadow]
    #8023278 - 02/14/08 05:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/080210/w021004A">


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Smackshadow]
    #8023300 - 02/14/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Smackshadow said:
Isn't it our job as Americans to make America better even if we are the best country on Earth?




When did that happen? The acronym LOL can not suffice. I just say it because technologically, educationally, governmentally, health-wise, etc. it isn't true by a long stretch.


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8023326 - 02/14/08 05:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Quote:

Smackshadow said:
Isn't it our job as Americans to make America better even if we are the best country on Earth?




When did that happen? The acronym LOL can not suffice. I just say it because technologically, educationally, governmentally, health-wise, etc. it isn't true by a long stretch.




holy shit i missed that "The acronym LOL can not suffice"!


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8023336 - 02/14/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, meaning?


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8023339 - 02/14/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



CHANGE!

YES WE CAN!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8023347 - 02/14/08 05:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cubie said:
Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Quote:

Smackshadow said:
Isn't it our job as Americans to make America better even if we are the best country on Earth?




When did that happen? The acronym LOL can not suffice. I just say it because technologically, educationally, governmentally, health-wise, etc. it isn't true by a long stretch.




holy shit i missed that "The acronym LOL can not suffice"!




i was agreeing with you :projectile:


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8023348 - 02/14/08 05:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I like the green tractor the most.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8023359 - 02/14/08 05:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ah, I didn't catch it, sorry.


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8023370 - 02/14/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

its all gravy :gizmo:


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OfflineSmackshadow
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8023396 - 02/14/08 05:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Come on guys, I said even if we are are the best country in the world, not We are the best country in the world. The point was that if a country is great (or even greatest) it should still strive to be better. Are you really disagreeing with that idea?


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Cubie]
    #8023406 - 02/14/08 05:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Gravy and sp'etti.



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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Smackshadow]
    #8023416 - 02/14/08 05:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Not at all. Have some sp'etti.




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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8023455 - 02/14/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

saying the wall street journal is written for big buisness and corporate america is like sying the New York times in worthless to anyone who doesn't live in New York, it makes no sense, and makes me think your not familiar with the publication.





Um...to my limited knowledge the Wall Street Journal is about Buisness, is it not?
International buisness?

Are you saying the Journal's against Big Buisness???

Where am I?

Every conversation I have on this forum feels like it's taking place in some alternate McKennian universe where talking about things as if they were true suddenly alters the fabric of reality.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


Edited by blackegg (02/14/08 05:54 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Phred]
    #8024094 - 02/14/08 07:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

And this is more of a bummer than "terrorism...9/11...extremists...surge...100 years...baby killers..."?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8024348 - 02/14/08 08:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I wonder if anyone will produce anything substansial to put up agansit Obama...
:strokebeard:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8024511 - 02/14/08 08:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I wonder if anyone will produce anything substansial to put up agansit Obama...
:strokebeard:




his policies aside, his lack of experience is the only thing i can really dislike about him.


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: blackegg]
    #8024703 - 02/14/08 09:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:
Quote:

saying the wall street journal is written for big buisness and corporate america is like sying the New York times in worthless to anyone who doesn't live in New York, it makes no sense, and makes me think your not familiar with the publication.





Um...to my limited knowledge the Wall Street Journal is about Buisness, is it not?
International buisness?

Are you saying the Journal's against Big Buisness???

Where am I?

Every conversation I have on this forum feels like it's taking place in some alternate McKennian universe where talking about things as if they were true suddenly alters the fabric of reality.




I'm saying its a paper with international coverage that while focused on buisness regularly reports on a bunch of things, fasion (at least weekly), electronics (at least weekly),politics(daily), other current news(daily). It's far from a single issue publication.

WSJ was one of the first to break the Enron story, and I'd presume it'll continue to print damaging stories on buisnesses, which is why people subscribe. Investors don't want sunshine blown up their ass while the stock falls.

While murdoch controlls it at the moment, its just another newspaper. To say it specifically is allied w/ corporate america seems hard to substantiate.


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Re: Obama's speechifyin' [Re: Phred]
    #8024745 - 02/14/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Obama's speeches are depressing?

Have you looked into the faces of the people in the audience afterwards?

They look like they were just given a shot of morphine and speed for god's sake!!

The only people who come away depressed from an Obama speech are those in the elite who are accustomed to the game being rigged in their favor for so many years and are afraid their gig is up.

I am sure THEY are depressed as HELL.

I do agree that, sooner or later, Obama will be forced to answer some very specific questions about his plan for America and his poll numbers will come back down to earth at that time. So I agree with the article in that sense.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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