Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Activism... [Re: deranger]
    #8021984 - 02/14/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I like the black bloc too. That's a big one, where is it?

Although I have some criticism of the large protest tourism that was so big a few years back. After Seattle there were a few good ones, but the police really got thier shit together and now it's pretty crazy. Of course street fighting is very exhilarating, and it can transform ones perception of space and agency, which is pretty much the best reason to do it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8022033 - 02/14/08 11:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

not sure where this one is, just found the video on youtube.

i enjoy this kind of activism, it attracts a lot of people's attention and stirs shit up. my kind of action!

though this sort of activism (or any activism for that matter) may not change the minds of those in power with an agenda, it is still one hell of a way to spread awareness.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8022114 - 02/14/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Ice, come on. You really don't think that activism is capable of changing anything? What about the civil rights movement? Or the women's suffrage movement? Or the labour movement? Yes, there are still massive problems of racism, sexism and class oppression, but alot of people poured thier love and blood into these struggles and they certainly have had an effect. Last time I checked, black people were allowed to drink from the same water fountains as white people. :shrug:

And while we're on the subject of the holocaust I might add: The Jews that participated in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising had a higher rate of survival than those that just went along passively.




Ice, come on.

OK but you're driving.

OK I'll concede that activism can change something. IMO it's local and temporary. But that's no reason not to do it if you believe in it. For myself the ups and downs of my fellow humans are of little concern to me. My goals are not theirs and so we follow a different path for the most part. I know I am dreaming and my dream is personal. In my dream I have a few true friends. They take up all my available space which isn't much.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8022881 - 02/14/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Again, you're putting words into my mouth. Please show me where I asserted that everything we do is not for our own benefit? I totally agree that your attitude can be changed.


You said It reinforces selfishness




How can we "reinforce" something we already do with each act? You said it now own it.

You also said it is an illusion that something can change in oneself.are only buying into the idea that there is someone there that CAN be changed. You said it now own it.

Actually the Holocaust ended not because of activism (unless you call war activism) but because the US soldiers made it into Germany to stop that madness.




Yes, I said that trying to change oneself reinforces selfishness. How do you go from that to telling me that I was making some universal assertion about selflessness? I will not own it because I didn't say it. You're twisting my words.

Yes, I said that working to try to change yourself is based on the idea that there is someone that CAN be changed. I didn't say that change doesn't happen or that it's impossible. I don't know whether you're twisting my words or just misinterpreting what I'm saying. Either way, look at what I actually am saying, not what you think I am saying. Our discussions tend to get side tracked and bogged down in issues like this. If you want me to clarify what I am saying, then ask me that. Please don't go jumping to conclusions.

Lastly, I have said NOTHING about activism ending the Holocaust. NOTHING. I did say it did other things, but never did I say that the Holocaust ended because of activism.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8023369 - 02/14/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Does the Cacophony Society and Operation Mindfuck count as activism?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8023413 - 02/14/08 05:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Back to the silly and unprovable belief that we don't do everything we do for our own benefit.




:what:

The existence of strong altruism and reciprocal altruism in humans and other animals has been empirically verified.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Activism... [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8023962 - 02/14/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I would say that the best activists are artists.




This is what my roommates believe.

And i agree to an extent, however i do understand the mentality that artists (especially musical) stretch peoples paradigms to include new ways of thinking (john lennon) or issues (rage against the machine, etc.)

To dispute that "the best activists are artists," through What ive seen in the form of change through music (in my lifetime) is seldom something real proactive on a social level (in contrast to the rock n roll' and hippie movements of the past). But - more so on a personal level and even then it seems superficial (how many zapatistas did zach delarocha's preaching save?)

Of course, there are punk communities/artists with very progressive pro human rights/animal rights/sexual rights/social rights messages who live somewhat of what they preach.

I do beleive in things like Food Not Bombs and other grassroots movements to aid those in need out of compassion, more so than other greater causes. As niamnyx said - we need to localize our actions and work in our own communities before focusing on "international aid" or something like that...

I am currently starting my first zine "confessions of an automobile owner." for the very reasons she mentioned - to open a dialogue among my peers.

Aswell i am trying to organize a puppet show before i go travelling with a couple extroverted creative friends of mine, to present at a basement show soon... (pipe dream?!)

Anyways, i think HELPING PEOPLE out of compassion has a very important role in society, and that spreading non discriminatory awareness is equally important.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8024026 - 02/14/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Here is one for the feminists:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/highschool/02/13/female.official.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Address:

Father Vincent Griego
St. Mary's Academy & College
200 E. Mission Street
St. Marys, KS  66536

You know what to do.  :uptosomething:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8024028 - 02/14/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
OK I'll concede that activism can change something. IMO it's local and temporary. But that's no reason not to do it if you believe in it. For myself the ups and downs of my fellow humans are of little concern to me. My goals are not theirs and so we follow a different path for the most part. I know I am dreaming and my dream is personal. In my dream I have a few true friends. They take up all my available space which isn't much.




For the most part i agree with this. My less thought out companion seems to think we have the numbers to start a revolution in the streets..

I think it is very flawed to try and target the BIG issues and expect to change them in most cases. Small community organization - Direct communication seems to be one of the most important factors in stimulating discussion and eventually change..

Another area that i feel passionate about, is Drug policy reform - especially in light of Stephen Harpers new mandatory minimums.. But besides talking about how it sucks, dont know where to start.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8024481 - 02/14/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

OK I'll concede that activism can change something. IMO it's local and temporary. But that's no reason not to do it if you believe in it. For myself the ups and downs of my fellow humans are of little concern to me. My goals are not theirs and so we follow a different path for the most part. I know I am dreaming and my dream is personal. In my dream I have a few true friends. They take up all my available space which isn't much.




I think that perhaps you and I share an instinctive distaste for the way that activism is usually a set of activities removed from the personal lives, goals and desires of the activists themselves. This is why I don't call myself an 'activist' or engage in what is usually called 'activism.' Yet I am strongly committed to the idea that things can and must change, and that in my own life I can contribute to tipping inertia in the right direction. My activity must be rooted in my life and my desires, and not come from any sense of duty or obligation. I'm not interested in alleviating a guilt complex, or swooping into a community that isn't my own with my "superior" education or theory. I think attitudes like that are really negative and paternalistic and they only recreate the attitudes and conditions that I object to.

First of all, any struggle I engage in, I come into because I recognize that my own interests are bound up in it, that I personally stand to grow and broaden my own freedom through those struggles. If I act in solidarity with anyone outside of my community, it is because I see parallels and interconnections between us. I take a great deal of interest in indigenous anti-colonial struggles because I see my own freedom compromised and diminished by the same institutions that they struggle against.

Don't get me wrong, when I talk about acting locally, I don't mean that acting in solidarity with people from other communities or countries is not worthwhile. The opposite is true. The problems that I face in my own community are global, and are shared by people on all continents. I believe that we all stand to gain from the global destruction of capitalism. That the world as a whole would be better off as a network of decentralized communties where power is localised and equality is cherished. But my activity is most relevant and effective in my own community, and so I am interested primarily in regional concerns.

ps- I'm ever so stoked that I actually convinced you to concede a point, Ice. This is a truly fulfilling and thrilling moment! :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8024495 - 02/14/08 08:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The invisible hand will never die.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Activism... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8024513 - 02/14/08 08:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The "invisible hand" is a feature of capitalism. If you think it will never die, I don't believe you understand what it is.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Activism... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8024555 - 02/14/08 09:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:

Back to the silly and unprovable belief that we don't do everything we do for our own benefit.




:what:

The existence of strong altruism and reciprocal altruism in humans and other animals has been empirically verified.




sorry bub. Not so. everything we do is self directed including altruism. I do for others because I BELIEVE THAT IT IS GOOD. This is so self evident that no one but a few here can see it.:tongue: But somehow I thought you would be one of the few.


Edited by Icelander (02/14/08 09:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8024587 - 02/14/08 09:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yet I am strongly committed to the idea that things can and must change, and that in my own life I can contribute to tipping inertia in the right direction.

I'm now older and jaded to this concept. I no longer find it useful. Nothing must change for me and the last thing I believe is that I can tip any balance in a direction that looks good to me. The rest of your first paragraph I agree with.

ps- I'm ever so stoked that I actually convinced you to concede a point, Ice. This is a truly fulfilling and thrilling moment! You are truly a powerful female warrior. Icelander is impressed.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8024607 - 02/14/08 09:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Birds have no concept of "good" (and probably no concept of "self"), yet some species of bird have strong altruistic behaviors.

Psychologists and ethologist have both documented behaviors that directly harm an organisms own self-interest.

Rational self-interest is dogma.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8024618 - 02/14/08 09:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The invisible hand is a theory of value, a theory which also happens to have been praised by Marx.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Activism... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8024619 - 02/14/08 09:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

OK fuck the birds because I can't know what causes their actions or what motivates them.

Now give me one example of a human performing a selfless act.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8024661 - 02/14/08 09:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Reciprocal altruism is a form of altruism grounded in rational self interest. As social creatures that rely on others for the fulfillment of our needs and desires, behaving cooperatively is the obvious and natural way to achieve these needs in most cases. It ain't the self-sacraficial thing altruism is usually made out to be. :smirk:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8024678 - 02/14/08 09:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup: I keep  saying this but almost no one gets it. Thanks for putting it so succinctly wonder woman.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8024754 - 02/14/08 09:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It'd be difficult to constantly give and give when those you are giving to never return the love. But communistic sharing is a pretty great way to ensure that everyone gets as good and as much as the rest and also creates interconnection and bonds of trust, thus increasing the wellbeing and solidarity of the whole community.

Thanks for the grand compliment! :awesome:

I'm actually gearing up to write a paper on this very subject... that rational self interest is natural and that it's rational conclusion is actually egalitarianism. The Liberal capitalist conception of it is grounded in a complex of enforced competitive behaviour and requires we be totally alienated from one another.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Ownership/Theft Paradox Anonymous 1,718 14 06/23/03 02:45 PM
by Sclorch
* mundane world through ownership? kaiowas 1,153 17 11/14/03 05:31 PM
by kaiowas
* Albert Hoffmann's activism Twirling 809 13 04/25/05 07:09 PM
by Learyfan
* Galactic Activation Portals question_for_joo 968 8 10/04/04 04:26 PM
by wideyed
* nonviolence and its violent consequences NiamhNyx 1,865 9 08/08/04 11:59 PM
by Mushmonkey
* owning earth
( 1 2 all )
kaiowas 2,265 30 01/27/04 06:02 PM
by silversoul7
* Jealous Rage - Pathology or Primal Programming? Swami 1,159 8 01/28/04 06:51 PM
by silversoul7
* Back to our senses: ...fear
( 1 2 all )
NiamhNyx 4,291 29 08/13/04 03:28 AM
by Strumpling

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,200 topic views. 1 members, 12 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.