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OfflinePDU
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Activism...
    #8019265 - 02/13/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Looking to get a discussion going regarding anything to do with activism.

I placed this in P&S because i believe that the choice to create change/help others is one that stems from personal philosophy inherent in those with a greater understanding of things.

What are your thoughts, or experiences with activism/activists? Or, what do you think is the place of activists within contemporary modern culture (especially 1st world.)


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GO OUTSIDE.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8019841 - 02/13/08 09:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hey friend! :awesome:

This is a really broad subject and it's hard to decide where to start... there are so many kinds of activism/activists.  But I'll give it a shot and just sort of generally comment on a couple of larger themes; maybe then we can narrow down the discussion to a few specific areas.

I love some activist projects while I have serious qualms with others. Generally speaking though, I think that it's important and awesome to be actively engaged in the world around you and not just live in a cozy, isolated bubble. I definitly have more interest in "direct action" than symbolic acts. I don't think that begging the government to please change things is very appealing or effective (i.e. petitioning, placard waving.)

There is also the issue of how so many people think of activism as a specialized role, something to be done by careerists or 'professionals' whether those labels are formal or self-assumed, and something that is seperate from daily life. Alot of people also get into activism to alleviate thier guilt complexes and not because they feel that what they are doing is integral to thier own life in any meaningful way.

Personally, I have a very local focus, as I believe that it is in our own interest and capacity to transform the conditions of our own lives (in a broad sense, not just a personal sense,) and that taking steps to do so not only improves the conditions in which we exist, but inspires people near and far to take similar steps in thier own lives and communities.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8020316 - 02/13/08 11:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:

There is also the issue of how so many people think of activism as a specialized role, something to be done by careerists or 'professionals' whether those labels are formal or self-assumed, and something that is seperate from daily life. Alot of people also get into activism to alleviate thier guilt complexes and not because they feel that what they are doing is integral to thier own life in any meaningful way.




very true..

Quote:

Personally, I have a very local focus, as I believe that it is in our own interest and capacity to transform the conditions of our own lives (in a broad sense, not just a personal sense,) and that taking steps to do so not only improves the conditions in which we exist, but inspires people near and far to take similar steps in thier own lives and communities.




This logic makes sense, as ive observed that even in small communities intentional change certainly does have the domino effect for facilitating change.

____


I would like to be more involved and proactive in the future, where-ever i may be - Around here *direct action* doesn't really exist. I practice very passive forms of activism; living simply, community building + discussion, street marches *gak*, selective shopping, and a general rejection of that which i deem wrong in the community/society.. However, would like to reach a wider audience to "spread the good word."

Needless to say, it feels hopeless to say that is the best i can do in a small community where not much is going on... Although to be honest i have been very apathetic towards working in a religious based community kitchen or something similar..

Id like to do something outside of my own life but dont know how.

Edit - Direct action is something that requires a like minded community. I believe that is what i lack, and why i find getting involved difficult.

Wondering if anyone has any real experience with volunteer work, or any forms of activism?


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


Edited by PDU (02/13/08 11:34 PM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8020530 - 02/14/08 12:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A fun sort of direct action that you can do where you live, regardless of the size of the supportive community around you, is guerilla gardening. Find an abandoned lot and plant a food garden there that you plan on eating from and better yet, make it an open community garden. The food could even go to a 'food not bombs' project. I assume you know what that is, but for the sake of everyone else: link.

Squatting is another awesome (similar) type of direct action, and it's especially relevant where there is a rapidly rising cost of living. Squatting can either be public, in the form of protest against the rising cost of rent or agitating for social housing, or it can be low key if you actually want to stay there longer term and not get evicted.

Direct action may require some kind of like minded community, but not necessarily all that many people. Just a couple of close friends can be plenty. Although, of course it's always nice to have a wider network! (But that's the beauty of travelling.)

Also, when isolated you can always do things like write letters to prisoners (Jeff "Free" Luers for example.) Or write zines, or make copies of zines you really like to share with your community. You can give them out at shows to create a dialogue with the people in your scene. In fact, I have a shit load of these things if you want 'em. I'll send you a bunch of stuff, or just bring it over the next time I'm up your way!:thumbup:

These are just a few ideas, but hopefully some of it's appealing to you. I've been in/around this sort of stuff for years... I'm full of ideas, references, and mostly a lot of radical theory if you wanna hit me up about it.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8021117 - 02/14/08 05:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Working towards a goal is one thing. Becoming identified with it as part of yourself is a waste of time and energy. The very word "activism" implies that it is your new religion.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Activism... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021512 - 02/14/08 09:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Not necessarily. An -ism CAN mean a religion, but in my mind, it can also mean the practice of something...cynicism, skepticism, activism, etc.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Activism... [Re: dblaney]
    #8021561 - 02/14/08 09:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't disagree that working towards a goal or common goal is not beneficial. I did say "Becoming identified with it as part of yourself is a waste of time and energy". Now about the ism....I hadn't thought of that, but I was referring to the process of surrendering your freedom for the conditions imposed by others which activism often requires....unless you are a lone activist, which is quite rare.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Loc: Here & Now
Re: Activism... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021606 - 02/14/08 09:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I was referring to the process of surrendering your freedom for the conditions imposed by others which activism often requires....unless you are a lone activist, which is quite rare.




Oh, okay cool. I'm curious also what you mean by the above quote. How does activism involve surrendering freedom for the conditions imposed by others?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8021634 - 02/14/08 09:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I believe activism can be a very important practice, regardless of whether it is your career or a hobby. Our world is filled with division and strife and much suffering caused from politics and selfish practices. Working to end those and promote peace, unity, justice, and compassion is one of the most important thing that any human being can do, IMO.

From a practical standpoint, it is also very easy to get caught up in activism or create much suffering for yourself because your vision of an ideal or good world is not the way things presently are. I think true activism comes when you are able to completely accept the way things currently are, and then work to transform the world from that solid foundation. So non-attachment is critical with activism, just as it is in all other areas in life. Non-attachment to your ideals and hopes and to the results of your efforts.

As activists, things may never be the way we want them to be, but that's okay, we can still work to transform our world, even if our efforts do not bear fruit right away.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Activism... [Re: PDU]
    #8021676 - 02/14/08 09:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
Looking to get a discussion going regarding anything to do with activism.

I placed this in P&S because i believe that the choice to create change/help others is one that stems from personal philosophy inherent in those with a greater understanding of things.

What are your thoughts, or experiences with activism/activists? Or, what do you think is the place of activists within contemporary modern culture (especially 1st world.)




I have little use for activism. You cannot change others with your personal philosophy and if (?) you have a greater understanding of things only those who have gained their own readiness to change can be stimulated by what you know or think you know. Those people are very few and will find what they need with or without you.

Trying to change society at large is only window dressing IMO. Or, "the more things change the more they stay the same".

Much better to be a living example of change and then keep your mouth shut. (advice I will most likely never take, but then I'm under no illusion about changing anything)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8021715 - 02/14/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know if there is any sort of universal statement that can be made about activism.

Ice, what you're saying definitely sounds as if you're making a universal assertion. In some circumstances and with some issues it may be more appropriate to be silent and simply walk the walk yourself. In other circumstances and other issues, it can be far more appropriate to stand up for the ideals of peace, unity, justice, reason and compassion. If not you, then who? If not now, then when?

Take the Holocaust for instance. Activists during that time period were able to save lives by helping prisoners escape. They were able to help hide people and save lives. Those who stayed silent and worked only on changing themselves to fit some ideal image could have made a tangible difference: saving lives, promoting reason and compassion.

Furthermore, those who choose to work solely on changing themselves are only buying into the idea that there is someone there that CAN be changed. It reinforces selfishness and leaves behind the unnecessary suffering and pain that is present all around the world.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Activism... [Re: dblaney]
    #8021749 - 02/14/08 10:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ice, what you're saying definitely sounds as if you're making a universal assertion.

Gee ya think?

In other circumstances and other issues, it can be far more appropriate to stand up for the ideals of peace, unity, justice, reason and compassion.

Well that might be fun but it doesn't really change much IMO.

If not you, then who? If not now, then when?


Not me and not now.

Take the Holocaust for instance. Activists during that time period were able to save lives by helping prisoners escape. They were able to help hide people and save lives. Those who stayed silent and worked only on changing themselves to fit some ideal image could have made a tangible difference: saving lives, promoting reason and compassion.

And please tell me about how all the killing, torture, genocide etc has all lessened because of that activism.


Furthermore, those who choose to work solely on changing themselves are only buying into the idea that there is someone there that CAN be changed. It reinforces selfishness and leaves behind the unnecessary suffering and pain that is present all around the world.


Back to the silly and unprovable belief that we don't do everything we do for our own benefit. (god please don't make us go through this again. :tongue:) Yes there is something that can be changed in oneself, YOUR ATTITUDE. The world will always have lots of pain and suffering is a choice and only those that become self-aware enough to change there attitude can effect change in their choice to embrace suffering.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8021803 - 02/14/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with you Ice. Activism is a process where one puts ones self into conflict with others to force change. The only thing I can change is myself. In my view conflict only creates conflict.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Activism... [Re: dblaney]
    #8021810 - 02/14/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

How does activism involve surrendering freedom for the conditions imposed by others?




What movement doesn't have leaders?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8021817 - 02/14/08 10:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ice, what you're saying definitely sounds as if you're making a universal assertion.

Gee ya think?




Obviously yes, otherwise why would I be saying that?

Quote:

Take the Holocaust for instance. Activists during that time period were able to save lives by helping prisoners escape. They were able to help hide people and save lives. Those who stayed silent and worked only on changing themselves to fit some ideal image could have made a tangible difference: saving lives, promoting reason and compassion.

And please tell me about how all the killing, torture, genocide etc has all lessened because of that activism.




Where did I say that killing, torture, and genocide lessened because of that activism? You're missing the point. I'm saying that as a direct result of activism, many people that otherwise would have been subjected to brutal conditions and probably a horrible execution were able to escape. Indirectly, this sort of activism also helps to inspire people and create change within their selves.

Quote:

Furthermore, those who choose to work solely on changing themselves are only buying into the idea that there is someone there that CAN be changed. It reinforces selfishness and leaves behind the unnecessary suffering and pain that is present all around the world.

Back to the silly and unprovable belief that we don't do everything we do for our own benefit. (god please don't make us go through this again. :tongue:) Yes there is something that can be changed in oneself, YOUR ATTITUDE. The world will always have lots of pain and suffering is a choice and only those that become self-aware enough to change there attitude can effect change in their choice to embrace suffering.




Again, you're putting words into my mouth. Please show me where I asserted that everything we do is not for our own benefit? I totally agree that your attitude can be changed.

But what you're saying is that suffering is a choice, and that everyone can free themselves from it. While ultimately, yes, everyone can free themselves from suffering, it is naive to think that everyone is innately able to do so and will do so. In fact, most people will not do so, probably because most people do not see suffering as a choice. Who, honestly, would choose to suffer? Most people, I contend, see suffering as an inevitability. The wise and compassionate thing to do, IMO, would be to show that it is not an inevitability. Sometimes, that involves simply working on yourself. Other times, it involves going out into the world and taking action. If you want to relieve your own suffering, don't you think everyone else does too? Why let them suffer when you are able to make a tangible impact and reduce their suffering?

Quote:

In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . .And by that time there was no one left to speak up."




--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Activism... [Re: dblaney]
    #8021861 - 02/14/08 10:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Again, you're putting words into my mouth. Please show me where I asserted that everything we do is not for our own benefit? I totally agree that your attitude can be changed.


You said It reinforces selfishness

How can we "reinforce" something we already do with each act? You said it now own it.

You also said it is an illusion that something can change in oneself.are only buying into the idea that there is someone there that CAN be changed. You said it now own it.

Actually the Holocaust ended not because of activism (unless you call war activism) but because the US soldiers made it into Germany to stop that madness.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/14/08 10:46 AM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Activism... [Re: Icelander]
    #8021897 - 02/14/08 10:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ice, come on. You really don't think that activism is capable of changing anything? What about the civil rights movement? Or the women's suffrage movement? Or the labour movement? Yes, there are still massive problems of racism, sexism and class oppression, but alot of people poured thier love and blood into these struggles and they certainly have had an effect. Last time I checked, black people were allowed to drink from the same water fountains as white people. :shrug:

And while we're on the subject of the holocaust I might add: The Jews that participated in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising had a higher rate of survival than those that just went along passively.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Activism... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8021908 - 02/14/08 10:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I would say that the best activists are artists.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Activism... [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8021932 - 02/14/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I would say that a wide diversity of approaches are necessary, as it is more effective to act on many fronts than on just one. So yes, artists are awesome and an important element, but they don't replace the important work done by people with different abilities and interests.

Martin Luther King and Malcolm X needed each other, no matter how much they differed, and they admitted as much. Gandhi was (suprise!) only one element in the liberation of India from colonial control. One narrow tactic rarely stands on it's own.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Activism... [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8021943 - 02/14/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I like black bloc, it's so action packed!



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