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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money
    #8018213 - 02/13/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I was the dry cleaner today picking up a jacket that my cat had decided made a good bed. This place has been run by the same Asian family since I was a kid, at least 30 years. My brother and I used to ride our go-cart around in the shopping center parking lot where they're located.

Anyway, when I presented my credit card for payment, the lady at the counter asked me for ID. As I got out my driver's license, I asked her if she always asks for ID for a $10 purchase, especially considering that dry cleaning isn't the kind of thing credit card thieves are likely to steal. She replied that she ALWAYS checks ID for credit card purchases. Then I asked if she's ever caught anyone trying to pay with a stolen card and she said no.

So I did some quick math in my head and explained the following to her:

It takes about 10 seconds to check ID. She gets maybe 50 credit card purchases a day so that's 10 x 50 = 500 seconds a day she spends checking ID. They're open 6 days a week, so that's 6 x 500 = 3000 seconds a week checking ID. There are 52 weeks in a year so now we're up to 52 * 3000 = 156,000 seconds a year.

And in the 30+ years she's been doing this, the grand total is 156,000 * 30 = 4,680,000 seconds or 1,300 hours in the lifetime of the business have been devoted to checking ID.

Now consider that at a wage of $5/hour she's spent 5 * 1,300 = $6,500 checking ID over the past 30 years. All that and she's never even caught someone trying to use a stolen card to pay for their dry cleaning.

She would have to catch 130 people each trying to steal $50 worth of dry cleaning before her efforts would break even, and to-date, she hasn't caught a single one.

After explaining this to her I asked if she intended to continue her practice of checking ID and she immediately replied that she would. This is what happens when you don't know how to apply critical thought.

I shook my head in wonderment and left.

I wish I could say that this kind of thing is characteristic of old people. Unfortunately, this forum has shown me that the inability to think critically is epidemic in all human strata and if anything it's most common among younger people with a mystical slant.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8018240 - 02/13/08 03:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I want to hear about the critical thinking wherein you failed to hang up a nice jacket...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8018255 - 02/13/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

ouch:ass::lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8018280 - 02/13/08 04:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

haha, are you joking?

if she didn't check credit cards, people would begin using fake credit cards.

your logic goes something like this. a janitor uses two-plies of toliet paper to wipe his ass. 1 ply of toliet paper costs approximately 1/16 of a cent. if we can convince the janitor to cut down on his toliet paper usage to 1 ply, over a period of 30 years, the school district can save $1200 in expenses.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Icelander]
    #8018306 - 02/13/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
ouch:ass::lol:




Laughing at others' misfortune is where your path has led you?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8018312 - 02/13/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Laughter is surely the best medicine. Next to morphine.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: appleorange]
    #8018334 - 02/13/08 04:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

if she didn't check credit cards, people would begin using fake credit cards.





So they know in advance that she will ask for ID, and that is why she has NEVER caught someone using a stolen credit card in 30 years of checking?  :lol:  Sorry, this is not a valid assumption.  Presumably, someone attempting to use a stolen credit card would not take the risk of being caught for a small purchase like dry cleaning. There would be no way for the thief to know whether a vendor would ask them to provide photo I.D.


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8018564 - 02/13/08 05:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

but if she didnt check the ID, then she'd just have 10 seconds of idle time added on to her day at work for each cc paying customer. at work, doing something sure makes the time go by faster than doing nothing. not checking IDs isnt going to make her get out of work any earlier.


--------------------

Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: nightkrawler]
    #8018645 - 02/13/08 05:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

not checking IDs isnt going to make her get out of work any earlier.

But it might make for less irate customers (like me) who think it's stoopid to make me dig out my driver's license over a $10 purchase that no credit card thief is ever going to attempt to steal.

It will also make for less irate customers BEHIND me waiting in line for me and everyone else ahead of me to dig out their ID.

It will also allow her to press an extra 20 or 30 shirts by the end of the day, meaning that whoever owns those shirts won't have to wait an extra day to pick them up.

There are many reasons not to bother with ID in that particular type of business and zero reason to do it. Even McDonald's and Burger King skip the ID check (and even the signature!) and risk the tiny possibility that some credit card thief is moronic enough to risk federal prison and a felony record over a happy meal. If she were selling $500 cameras, then sure it makes sense to check ID, but she's selling $4 shirt pressings (only $2 on Shirt Tuesday).

As I figured it would be, this thread in a few posts is already demonstrative the chronic inability to think critically among most of the population. :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibleappleorange
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Posts: 4,868
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Veritas]
    #8018880 - 02/13/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

if she didn't check credit cards, people would begin using fake credit cards.





So they know in advance that she will ask for ID, and that is why she has NEVER caught someone using a stolen credit card in 30 years of checking?  :lol:  Sorry, this is not a valid assumption.  Presumably, someone attempting to use a stolen credit card would not take the risk of being caught for a small purchase like dry cleaning. There would be no way for the thief to know whether a vendor would ask them to provide photo I.D.




people are taking this thread way too seriously.

dude, if no one checked credit cards, I believe that thieves would begin using fake credit cards more often. you can argue against that all day if you want, but I'm pretty damn confident that it's a fact.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: appleorange]
    #8019214 - 02/13/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

dude, if no one checked credit cards, I believe that thieves would begin using fake credit cards more often.

BZZT! Not true for small purchases like dry cleaning and fast food as evidenced by the fact that McDonalds, Wendy's, and Burger King not only don't check ID but don't even ask for a signature. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineTheCow
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Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8019310 - 02/13/08 08:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I worked at a dry cleaning place. Do you have any idea how much time there is to do absolutely nothing? Sure there is work, washing clothes, hanging them up. But you have a decent amount of nothing to do time. So your logic of, well that 10 seconds could have been spent on something else is absurd. You know what I did? I did blow in the bathroom and smoked pot in the back. You're logic is quite interesting sir. Also what kind of an asshole spits out that kind of shit to a person? Id laugh so much in your face if you pulled that on me when im working some busted ass dry cleaning gig. You ask why someone would check ID's? Maybe because the cost of it turning out bad for them simply isn't worth the risk and they dont want to spend the other 10 seconds doing blow in the bathroom like I did, or maybe they just wanted to fuck with you.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: TheCow]
    #8019323 - 02/13/08 08:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you have any idea how much time there is to do absolutely nothing?

Maybe where you worked there was a lot of time to do nothing, but this place never has your stuff ready any sooner than three days, usually four.

If they have a three+ day backlog, they can't be having any free time. :shrug:

Id laugh so much in your face if you pulled that on me when im working some busted ass dry cleaning gig.

Well, if that's how you treat your customers, it's no wonder you didn't have enough of them to keep you busy. :rofl:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineTheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8019338 - 02/13/08 08:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They know people put up with it. And really, sure these jobs could be run more efficiently. But its a cost/benefit ratio. How much harder do you really want to work to get a bit more money? Would that so called 500 seconds a day reduce their turn around time by any noticeable amount? Depends on the person, critical thinking can go both ways. You assume that critical thinking implies maximum profit gain


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8019345 - 02/13/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I just worked there. If a customer pulled some shit like that, I would definitely laugh. No patience for assholes


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: TheCow]
    #8019462 - 02/13/08 08:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

this thread is an absolute joke.

anybody who philosophizes about the monetary gains that could be made from a fast food establishment through the micro seconds spent in unnecessary credit transactions needs to lighten up.

this thread reads like Jerry Sienfelds parents who live in Boca Vista arguing about the politics of bachi ball.



*that old man is really cute I think :sun:


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: appleorange]
    #8019484 - 02/13/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you spent two hundred dollas on a tip calculator?


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8019521 - 02/13/08 08:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
not checking IDs isnt going to make her get out of work any earlier.
.
But it might make for less irate customers (like me) who think it's stoopid to make me dig out my driver's license over a $10 purchase that no credit card thief is ever going to attempt to steal.




Did you become irate....?    :nono:
I am *assuming* that you already had your wallet open waiting for your card to be handed back....


Quote:

Diploid said:
As I figured it would be, this thread in a few posts is already demonstrative the chronic inability to think critically among most of the population. :confused:




I am also assuming that this is your first time there, or the first time you have used your credit card there....
Now you know, and next time they won't have to ask, and no one will become irate....  :sun:  :grin:

The post office makes me show my ID when I take them the slip for a package they tried to deliver....
I think that it would be safe to say that a very low percentage of mail thievery would be done by -
means of someone actually taking a stolen slip in to pick up the package....
Yet, they still do it....
Is it a "good thing", or a bad thing, or just a "safer" way....?


You know your kitty isn't gonna~ be the same without daddy's coat....    :frown:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8019552 - 02/13/08 08:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: How Lack Of Critical Thinking Can Cost You Money [Re: Diploid]
    #8019881 - 02/13/08 09:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Guys, you're all missing my point.

If a corporation that processes millions of small-value credit card transactions daily (McDonalds) has decided to forgo checking ID or even gathering signatures because the objective analysis from their actuarial department tells them it's not worth the trouble, then certainly it's even less worth the trouble for a tiny mom-and-pop dry cleaner who hasn't caught anyone in 30 years of trying, and even if they had caught someone, they'd only be out maybe $20 in 30 years.

And nevermind that nobody who steals a credit card is going to risk a felony conviction over a dirty shirt. If they're going to risk federal prison, they're going to do it by trying to buy an expensive diamond or high-end electronics, not a dirty shirt.

Realize that the credit card DOES GET SWIPED in the card reader so it's not like a reported stolen or otherwise invalid card is going to work. It's only in the case of a card so-recently stolen that the owner hasn't noticed and called his bank to report it yet. So there's a small window of opportunity for a thief to get away with something. Do you REALLY think he's going to spend that small window paying for his dirty laundry instead of buying a nice new iPod? C'mon!

So the beef of this thread is that checking ID may be something for the old Asian lady to do because she's bored and doesn't mind holding up the line of customers waiting to pick up their stuff, but it makes no sense of any kind from a risk-reduction point of view. If it DID make sense, McDonalds army of actuaries would have instituted an ID-check policy long ago.

That despite all this she STILL thinks she's doing something actuarially worthwhile is indicative of an inability to critically analyse her policy of wasting time (yes, it's a waste of time or McDonald's would do it) and conclude that she gains nothing and risks annoying customers.

It's a lose-lose situation that she can't see because she can't analyse the situation critically.

It's a bit like people who make what is from an actuarial point of view the single most horrible investment decision short of flushing money down the toilet. I'm talking about buying a lottery ticket which, not surprisingly, the majority of them are sold to people with little education. Why? Because part of becoming educated includes learning to think critically.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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