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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8028557 - 02/15/08 06:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sigh
Quote:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Zappa, you can't call bullshit without proper sources.
I supplied exactly as many sources as he did
Wrong. You supplied zero sources.
Now you're admitting that I did supply sources...but...
Quote:
The links he supplied do not prove at all what he stated.
Did you even look at the links? They prove my point and then some!
Plus, you try to bury your admission of guilt in a paragraph that's completely off topic.
"Sigh." I guess I shouldn't expect a coherent dialog from a guy who insults people by saying they " wouldn't know the difference between a line of heroin and a line of coke"

But is this the common level of dialectics you usually find here at the Shroomery? *Really*?
Who moderates these boards? Ohhh...that's right. Phred.

Some of you conservative guys who like to run these boards are lucky I'm just some punk kid and this is only a fuckin Mushroom Website or you'd be having your asses handed to you regularly.

-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
Edited by blackegg (02/16/08 08:14 AM)
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8028576 - 02/15/08 06:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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what a prick
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: johnm214]
#8028647 - 02/15/08 06:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Are you addressing me?
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8029713 - 02/15/08 11:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't think he's adressing you, but he may be referencing you.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: ApJunkie]
#8029843 - 02/16/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's nice to view a thread where people get along for once.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: zorbman]
#8030450 - 02/16/08 08:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Meh, I stand by my words.
These forums are *filled* with passive aggressive nonsense, people using foul language in place of reason, all manner of random side tracks instead of sticking to the point, little cliques ganging up on outsiders, and Phred( a moderator) getting the ball of dung rolling on many occasions (or at least helping it along), this wouldn't fly in other political sites.
And so someone calls me a 'prick for stating the obvious... ...just one more case of using foul language in place of debate to get your point across, which is the norm here I guess.
But this may all be me pissing in the wind as I'm not even sure who's being addressed or referenced or whatever-you-want-to-call-it. That's the beauty of being passive aggressive ...you don't have to make sense and you can always deny what's happening.
I mean I am a prick but I think my points are still valid.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8030490 - 02/16/08 08:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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One of the nice things about The Shroomery is that the administration allows its forum moderators to post in the forums they moderate, as long as they follow the site rules and forum rules while doing so.
Try to imagine how saddened I feel to be told my view of the world differs from your own.
Phred
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8030509 - 02/16/08 09:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I mean I am a prick but I think my points are still valid.
But that's the thing. Your points aren't valid. As has been pointed out already by the two posters in the thread who actually understand how the US government works, noting how large the deficit was compared to who was occupying the Oval Office at the time is like noting how large the deficit was compared to how much fizzy water Coca Cola sold at the time.
Congress decides how much gets spent, not the President. If you want to do a year by year deficit comparison between Democrat-controlled Congress and Republican-controlled Congress, be my guest. But the reason no one is getting all excited about your deficit "revelations" is that they're meaningless, not that there's some kind of conspiracy to be mean to you or roll dung onto your head.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8030525 - 02/16/08 09:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackegg said: Sigh
Quote:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Zappa, you can't call bullshit without proper sources.
I supplied exactly as many sources as he did
Wrong. You supplied zero sources.
Now you're admitting that I did supply sources...but...
Quote:
The links he supplied do not prove at all what he stated.
You didn't supply any sources to support what I called bullshit, which was this:
Quote:
Republicans, whatever you want to call the philosophy they follow...have been worse for the economy than the Democrats the last 30 years while steadfastly maintaining that they are much better than the Democrats.
The information you posted referenced only Republican presidents, who most of the time had Democratic Congresses. Your conclusion is not even addressed by your links, so you presented no links to support your conclusion. Hence equal linkage on what I called bullshit.Quote:
Did you even look at the links? They prove my point and then some!
Plus, you try to bury your admission of guilt in a paragraph that's completely off topic.
"Sigh." I guess I shouldn't expect a coherent dialog from a guy who insults people by saying they " wouldn't know the difference between a line of heroin and a line of coke"

If you can't tell the differences among Democrats, Republicans and Conservatives you are extraordinarily myopic. Hence I suggest you stay away from similar looking powdered drugs.Quote:
But is this the common level of dialectics you usually find here at the Shroomery? *Really*?
Who moderates these boards? Ohhh...that's right. Phred.

Some of you conservative guys who like to run these boards are lucky I'm just some punk kid and this is only a fuckin Mushroom Website or you'd be having your asses handed to you regularly.

What a tough guy. I tremble at your wit and wisdom. "Common level of dialectics"? You mighty reconsider your overinflated sense of intellect in light of the fact that your conclusion is not even addressed by your evidence. Unless you think the Presidency is equal to a dictatorship. In which case you are even more ridiculous than I initially thought, which was quite ridiculous indeed.
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blackegg
...has left the building.



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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: zappaisgod]
#8030651 - 02/16/08 09:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You see what I'm saying? One good point surrounded by a bunch of bullshit.
Zappa,I don't even have time to deal with all your logical and sundry fallacies.
Phred
And as I've said...a 9x increase over 30 years is more than luck.
Quote:
Try to imagine how saddened I feel to be told my view of the world differs from your own.
Man, again with the off topic theatrics?!
So here we are...twaddle Dee-Dee...going round and round the same simple issue ...it only takes 3 pages of posts to get to the one valid counter-point. Which is: Whether the links and stats I provided in *my first* post are statistically relevant. Whether one average 9x higher than another average (over thirty years)is just luck.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: zappaisgod]
#8030653 - 02/16/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yep there's assholes here too. Ignoring or feeling like there are none won't do anything to stop them.
I never said there are none. We create them by the truck load by mucking about in other countries business; something we would never tolorate here.
I'm saying Bush's policies are making it a lot more dangerous for me and especially in my own country. Fuck that shit.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8030767 - 02/16/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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blackegg writes:
Quote:
Man, again with the off topic theatrics?!
Can we say irony?
Quote:
So here we are...twaddle Dee-Dee...going round and round the same simple issue ...it only takes 3 pages of posts to get to the one valid counter-point. Which is: Whether the links and stats I provided in *my first* post are statistically relevant. Whether one average 9x higher than another average (over thirty years)is just luck.
It didn't take three pages. It took a page and a half. That's when I made my first post pointing out the obvious -- that it is not the president who controls the government's purse strings, but Congress. Blaming the president -- Democrat or Conservative, makes no difference -- for a budget deficit is like blaming the president for the price per barrel of oil OPEC chooses to charge in a given year.
Even the so-called "Bush tax cuts" which have stimulated the economy, increased tax revenue, and lowered deficits since they were passed, don't bring any credit to Bush. It wasn't Bush who wrote those tax cuts into the legislation and voted to pass the resulting changes. It was Congress who did that.
It's not that your bolded and capitalized and exclamation marked observations on deficits and presidents are statistically significant or statisically insignificant, it is that they are not meaningful. They have about as much meaning as me charting the relationship between the price of pistachios and the ratio of black to white musical artists winning MTV awards in a given year.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8030820 - 02/16/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your nonsense does not suffer statistical irrelevance. It suffers from logical irrelevance in that the Presidency is not a dictatorship. Further, the National debt is not a perfect descriptor of economic health.
Let's start with Reagan's first term as up until then the debt change was flat after being quite negative due to paying off the WW2 and Korea debt. At that point we start to see the increases.
81-85Reagan / increase 11.3% Party of Congress Dem 85-89Reagan / increase 9.2% Party of Congress 85-87 Dem;87-89 Split 89-93Bush41 / increase 15.1% Party of Congress Split 93-97Clinton / increase -0.6 Party of Congress 93-95 Split;95-97 Rep 97-01Clinton / increase -8.2 Party of Congress Rep 01-05Bush43 / increase 6.9 Party of Congress Rep
After that we have a projection so I won't use it. It isn't data. See?
In addition, you seem to have a fixation on the National debt as a perfect descriptor of economic health. This is nonsense. As an example of just how nonsensical it is, look at the 70s when the National debt declined while the economy was in terrible shape (100% Dem controlled Congress).
Quote:
The 1970s was perhaps the worst decade of Western and American economic performance since the Great Depression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s#Economy
Now, for a refresher, this is what you said that I described as bullshit:
Quote:
But let's just deal with the facts.
Republicans, whatever you want to call the philosophy they follow...have been worse for the economy than the Democrats the last 30 years while steadfastly maintaining that they are much better than the Democrats.
And many American people (apparently about fifty-one percent!) believe this lie they tell!
No mention of Presidents or National debt, just parties and the economy.
Enough, you have had your ass handed to you. Thank me for letting you have it back before I was really done with it
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: zappaisgod]
#8030943 - 02/16/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks. You truly are a wise and intellegent person. You too Phred. You guys rock!
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8033224 - 02/16/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It only took you three pages of flaming to get to the point.
But I see now that you were right.
Thanks for the correction!
 I love you!
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8033862 - 02/17/08 07:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
t only took you three pages of flaming to get to the point.
No, the point was gotten to a page and a half into the thread, when it was pointed out (by me) that it is Congress who holds the purse strings, not the president.
Phred
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blackegg
...has left the building.



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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: Phred]
#8034542 - 02/17/08 12:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was speaking mainly to zappaisgod.
But thanks Phred.
I only wish you would've swooped in a little earlier (30 posts?) to show me the error of my ways. Before zappa got my dander up... and without the ...what did you call it? "Irony"?
But,I guess you're doing your best.

Blackegg.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8036679 - 02/18/08 05:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The topic you guys were so thoroughly schooling me about above seems a bit more complicated after reading this...
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5034684/Presidential-signaling-in-a-market.html
So the president does have some influence... but not much??
I thought the congress held the purse strings and any talk of the president's party was meaningless?
It's only half an article and you are way ...WAY smarter than me about this whole "politics" thing...
{I'm sometimes tempted to get a Bachelors in Political Science before even posting anything here... but what the hell, at least I'M learning something.}
...so, if you have the time, please hand me the rest of my ass would you?
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8036921 - 02/18/08 07:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
So the president does have some influence... but not much??
Exactly. What a president says in his speeches does have some effect on various segments of the economy, true. But it has no effect on the size of the budget Congress approves (or doesn't approve). Since deficits and national debt are the direct result of how much money the US government spends in a year (determined by how large the budget is that year) the correlation you provided between deficit/debt and party affiliation of president is meaningless. If you had provided a correlation between say presidents and the consumer confidence index, or presidents and stock market index, different story.
Quote:
I thought the congress held the purse strings and any talk of the president's party was meaningless?
In relation to government deficit and national debt, it is meaningless.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Republicans (The Big Lie) [Re: blackegg]
#8036941 - 02/18/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here's the other half. From your own link (or hand as it were):
Quote:
Despite high public expectations about presidential leadership and economic prosperity, political scientists do not resoundingly endorse presidential influence over monetary policy, fiscal policy, or the business cycle. Beck (1987) and Grier (1989) provide conflicting accounts of the propensity for presidential influence over a purported monetary cycle (see Williams 1990), while Morris (2001) maintains that presidents have some leverage over the Federal Reserve Board when Congress is part of the analysis. The existence of partisan economic cycles in macroeconomic policy and the probability of an electoral cycle in fiscal policy suggest some influence over the economy (see Alesina and Roubini with Cohen 1997; Hibbs 1977; Keech 1995). Yet the president's influence over fiscal policy is limited because he must deal with Congress (Bond and Fleisher 1990) and most budgetary money is already allocated to entitlements and deficit-related spending cuts.
The President cannot dictate economic policy. No matter what annapurna says. But he does certainly have some influence, as does the message to Congress from the people when they elect a President. They want to keep their jobs, after all.
This place could easily turn into a socialist wankfest if not for a few of us. Fortunately for the Shroomery, there is a small handful that aren't knee jerk liberals. We are mean and we are strong. It is, after all, for your own good
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