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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8032681 - 02/16/08 08:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The entire idea of a Main-Stream Media Bias is a Rush Limbaugh invention.
It is absolutely w/out any truth or merit.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8032714 - 02/16/08 09:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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"I admit it- the liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures." William Kristol, as reported by the New Yorker, 5/22/95
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zappaisgod
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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8033827 - 02/17/08 06:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If that is a correct quote one might note an interesting thing. The date. It's May of 1995, right after the Republicans took control of Congress for the first time in DECADES. He might have been a bit giddy and the liberals in the media may have forgotten that they actually had anything to worry about. They're back now, though.
Liberal bias in the MSM is no myth. They self-report their political affiliations as overwhelmingly liberal, they overwhelmingly donate to Dems and there is no way this can't creep in. Now we need to define just what the MSM is. It is not the Spokane Times Picayune. The MSM consists of these elements.
Liberal (very): NY Times Washington Post LA Times
Conservative (mostly but often utterly apolitical): Wall Street Journal
Liberal: ABC NBC CBS CNN MSNBC
Conservative: Fox
Liberal: Time Newsweek
Conservative: National Review
I picked these because they have a national reach. There are certainly other media but they just don't have the audience. Then there's radio which is overwhelmingly Conservative. And the general entertainment media (Hollywood) which is so overwhelmingly Liberal that Conservative actors often will not speak out for fear of being informally black listed.
Phred's observation about that stuff is not wrong, it's just not that absolute. It's more of a general trend, maybe just a slight one, but there nonetheless.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8033892 - 02/17/08 07:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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What is your basis for painting every major cable news outlet as "liberal"?
I consume news from every one of those channels on a regular basis. I just don't see the blatant bias like exists on Fox News.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8034099 - 02/17/08 09:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just picked two. Do you disagree that CNN and MSNBC are liberal? Two names; Eason Jordan and Chris Matthews. There is only 1 that can be called conservative at all.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8034102 - 02/17/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, and the bull goose looney moonbat of them all, Keith Olberman.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8034813 - 02/17/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nancy Grace?
Glenn Beck? (I don't know if beck is on CNN or MSNBC)
At any rate, the talking heads are irrelevant. I assume you believe the actual newscasts are biased? That things detrimental to Progressive causes are either not reported or under-reported?
I just don't see this.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8034828 - 02/17/08 01:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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What's Progressive?
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8034980 - 02/17/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's May of 1995, right after the Republicans took control of Congress for the first time in DECADES. He might have been a bit giddy and the liberals in the media may have forgotten that they actually had anything to worry about. They're back now, though.
What are you even saying here? The liberals in the media forgot they had anything to worry about? Not following you.
Some neocons are very earnest about their intentions and I can respect that to some degree. Why not take Mr. Kristol's word for it?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035008 - 02/17/08 02:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think that they took Democrat control of Congress for granted and thought they would never lose. 1994 was quite a wake up call. The Dems lost a lot of seats in the House all at once.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035015 - 02/17/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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And if there really was such an overwhelming liberal media bias why has there not been more coverage of the protests to the Iraq War plastered all over the news?
You'd figure that the evil liberal media, if they truly existed, would spare no opportunity to show these protests and pass up an opportunity to slam the war.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035032 - 02/17/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said: And if there really was such an overwhelming liberal media bias why has there not been more coverage of the protests to the Iraq War plastered all over the news?
Because they're a figment of your imagination.Quote:
You'd figure that the evil liberal media, if they truly existed, would spare no opportunity to show these protests and pass up an opportunity to slam the war.
The opportunity they have passed up is to report on Iraq success. Coverage of the Iraq War has cratered.
http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2008/cyb20080204.asp#5
Quote:
Media Research Center analysts tracked all coverage of the Iraq war on the ABC, CBS and NBC evening newscasts from September 1 through January 31, and we documented a steady decline in TV coverage of Iraq that has coincided with the improving situation in Iraq. Back in September, the three evening newscasts together broadcast 178 stories about the war in Iraq; in January, that number fell to just 47, a nearly fourfold decrease.
Click the link for a lovely graph. edited for link
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Edited by zappaisgod (02/17/08 03:03 PM)
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035052 - 02/17/08 03:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think that they took Democrat control of Congress for granted and thought they would never lose. 1994 was quite a wake up call. The Dems lost a lot of seats in the House all at once.
Okay but that has absolutely nothing to do with Kristol's quote. He's talking about how when conservatives fuck up they blame their failures on a liberal-controlled media, which he calls "not that powerful." The myth of a powerful liberal media being a convenient excuse to whip out whenever a conservative policy doesn't work.
What are you saying here? That the liberal media was silent until the Democrats lost control of Congress at which point they started overflowing the news with bias? I'm still really confused about what you're saying.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035108 - 02/17/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Because they're a figment of your imagination.
Iraq War protests are a figment of my imagination?! Are you insane? One of the protests was the largest anti-war protest in human history. You're really losing it, zappa.
Quote:
and we documented a steady decline in TV coverage of Iraq that has coincided with the improving situation in Iraq
Well that's probably because things HAVEN'T been improving. Madtown and I had a really drawn out discussion about this in the Armenian genocide thread before Phred closed it Violence toward American troops has steadily increased over the course of the war. Might the reason that there have been less reports of things being all dandy and happy in Iraq be because things are in fact fucked up and chaotic? I don't see the failure to cover an improving situation as a liberal bias, I see it as a bias towards reality.
I'll resurrect this graph from the last thred to prove the point:

By the way, it's hard to take a citation from an overtly-conservative, reactionary source (MRC) at face value. Like they're not at all biased themselves They call themselves "The Media Research Center" as that's supposed to give the veneer of objectivity yet in their bookstore they have a book called, "Weapons of Mass Distortion: The Coming Meltdown of the Liberal Media." Great work! What an objective source
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035109 - 02/17/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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What I am saying is that Kristol's point about them not being so powerful was made just before they got the biggest wake up call most of them ever had. They were sleeping, they lost, they woke up. When he made his point they had probably just been jolted out of their most quiescent period and had not yet got it back and rolling at full steam. Don't forget, they thought they had just installed a Democrat President, too. They got burnt for their laziness.
I don't think they're quite all that any more. The internet is cutting some of their shit off. I just thought it was interesting about when Kristol made the remark. I wonder how he feels now. Maybe the same.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035176 - 02/17/08 03:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:
Because they're a figment of your imagination.
Iraq War protests are a figment of my imagination?! Are you insane? One of the protests was the largest anti-war protest in human history. You're really losing it, zappa.
Really? And where was that?Quote:
Quote:
and we documented a steady decline in TV coverage of Iraq that has coincided with the improving situation in Iraq
Well that's probably because things HAVEN'T been improving. Madtown and I had a really drawn out discussion about this in the Armenian genocide thread before Phred closed it Violence toward American troops has steadily increased over the course of th war. Might the reason that there have been less reports of things being all dandy and happy in Iraq be because things are in fact fucked up and chaotic?
I'll resurrect this graph from the last thred to prove the point:

Link? My graph charts coverage from the period AFTER your graph. How come your graph ends when it does and doesn't have any years on it? Try this one that goes through the period of the coverage statistics in my prior post. http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2007/12/iraq_by_the_numbers.php I don't know how to post the graphs. Perhaps you would be so kind. There's quite a few of them. None of them look like yours.Quote:
By the way, it's hard to take a citation from an overtly-conservative, reactionary source (MRC) at face value. Like they're not at all biased themselves They call themselves "The Media Research Center" as that's supposed to give the veneer of objectivity yet in their bookstore they have a book called, "Weapons of Mass Distortion: The Coming Meltdown of the Liberal Media." Great work! What an objective source
It really is something easy to check. Find something that says otherwise. Although I don't watch the TV news I do read the NY Times everyday and the war has been mostly driven off the front page.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8035241 - 02/17/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
What I am saying is that Kristol's point about them not being so powerful was made just before they got the biggest wake up call most of them ever had. They were sleeping, they lost, they woke up. When he made his point they had probably just been jolted out of their most quiescent period and had not yet got it back and rolling at full steam. Don't forget, they thought they had just installed a Democrat President, too. They got burnt for their laziness.
Man, you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist here. To summarise, the Democratic party pulls the strings of its hydra-headed monster "THE LIBERAL MEDIA" and can turn on and turn off the propaganda spigot at will. Well let's see... the congressional election was in 1994 and Mr. Kristol's comment was in May 1995, a few months after and should have been enough time for the Democratic party, through their media accomplices (wink wink), to turn on the propaganda spigot and flood the media with unmitigated bias. His quotation doesn't seem to imply that and in fact appears to negate the notion of this even being a possibility.
This is a really desperate attempt to try and twist Bill Kristol's words and not make them sound like what he's really saying... that the powerful liberal media myth is BULLSHIT!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035257 - 02/17/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't at all think the Dems pull the strings. I think the media are their fellow travelers honestly.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035260 - 02/17/08 04:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Really? And where was that?
How about the United Kingdom, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, the United States, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Syria, India, Russia, South Korea, Japan, and even McMurdo Station in Antarctica. There were 2 million protesters in London alone. Some figment of my imagination...
Oh and if you click on the graph I showed you before it says it's from the Brookings Insitute and it says right there on the graph that it starts in June '03.
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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/17/08 10:28 PM)
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



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Re: Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard? *DELETED* [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#8035264 - 02/17/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Virus_with_ShoesReason for deletion: Double post
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