Home | Community | Message Board

Avalon Magic Plants
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,311
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Trusted Identifier
Microscope suggestion
    #7894641 - 01/17/08 07:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I know you aren't supposed to post the content of PM's in public, so here goes:

> what kind of microscope are you using?

http://www.microscopenet.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_37&products_id=124

I have a Microscopenet M837T

> where did you get it?

http://microscopenet.com

> how much?

$329

> does it have two eyepieces?

Yes, it also has a third eye.

Always get the one with the third eye, you won't regret it.

> are you just holding your digital camera up to the eyepiece or do you have a adapter?

I used to hold the digital camera up to the eyepiece, but now I have an adapter.  All it does is affix the camera to the third eye, but it is really awesome and I really recommend it.  I have a Canon A-640 camera, which has  a flip-down LCD screen.  Its really nice to have a camera like that because you can sit back in your chair and use the microscope with the LCD instead of having to lean into the eyepiece all the time.

This is the adapter I use to put the camera on the scope:

http://cgi.ebay.com/F-ADAPTER-4-Canon-G9-G7-G6-G5-A640-A630-A540-A720-A710_W0QQitemZ230214253684QQihZ013QQcategoryZ30070QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

> can you recommend a decent one to me for under 400?

You should get the one I have.  Every scope I have ever used except for crazy super-expensive ones has been much worse.  This one works great, isn't too expensive, and has all the features that people look for.


Edited by Alan Rockefeller (01/17/08 10:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7894875 - 01/17/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

First link is broke.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,311
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: CureCat]
    #7895227 - 01/17/08 10:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Fixed now.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,311
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7895459 - 01/17/08 11:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Another PM:


> g's, thanks alan, wow it looks affordable and perfect enough for me..

Yea.

> it does not plug into the wall? does it use batteries for the illumination?

It does plug in to the wall.

A 110v inverter would allow it to be battery powered.

> what other basic items would i need to get started with it? glass slides? what else?

Get a few hundred glass slides and a few hundred thin plastic cover slips.

Get some sharp razor blades

And some congo red stain

And most importantly, this book (which should really come with every microscope)

http://www.amazon.com/How-Identify-Mushrooms-Genus-III/dp/0916422097

> how many other microscope models have you had the chance to play with?

ten.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7895752 - 01/18/08 12:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"This one works great, isn't too expensive, and has all the features that people look for."

Well, it depends on which people. I've never seen any super-inexpensive scopes (and for microscopes, anything under $500 brand new is definitely super-cheap) with the kind of Kohler illumination-capable optics I'd be happy with, but I've been kind of spoiled by university scopes going back to when I was an undergraduate.

I just bought a used Zeiss Standard 14 over eBay, and its pretty nice. I can get basic Kohler illumination out of it, and sharp, good contrast, evenly-lit images clear up to 1000X. However, I'm probably going to upgrade it further, with a nice set of plan-achromat objectives and a turret-style condenser with better optics and darkfield and phase capability. Its going to be sweet.

The upgrades I'll do after that will involve getting a trinocular head for it, however, I'm going to learn more about the ins and outs of what adaptors are required to get a good image out of a photo tube. In the meantime, I'll just keep getting pix by holding my Coolpix lens up to my ocular – its a total pain in the ass, but I've gotten good images that way.

A nice feature with your scope is that it comes with a built-in trinocular head (you can buy trinocular heads for pro-level scopes, but in that case, its a more expensive upgrade). The downside of a trinocular head, though, is that they're not exactly "plug and play". Actually getting an image out of the phototube requires adaptors of various levels of complexity, often something that's cutomized to fit both the photo tube of the specific scope you're using and the lens of the specific camera.

I'm not clear from your description, Alan, how exactly you're getting an image out of the photo tube without a special adaptor. (Something kind of like the camera/tube setup shown here.) If I'm not mistaken, the kinds of adapter shown in the link contain some kind of ocular lens to focus the image. In your case, do you put an ocular lens or something at the end of the phototube, then place your lens over that with the holder you were describing? Or do you just shoot right into the uncovered tube? If you do the latter, I wasn't even aware you could get an image that way.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Strophariaceae]
    #7895789 - 01/18/08 01:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and another thing about the scopes on Microscope.net – they advertise a few there that claim 1600X magnification. All I have to say is – bullshit. That's not even possible without very special optics, and certainly not the kind of thing your going to find on a $300 scope.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,311
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Strophariaceae]
    #7895908 - 01/18/08 01:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> I'm not clear from your description, Alan, how exactly you're getting an image out of the photo tube without a special adapter.

A link to the adapter I use near the bottom of the first post in this thread. All it does is hold the camera to the eyepiece, but it is well worth getting one.

> do you put an ocular lens or something at the end of the phototube, then place your lens over that with the holder you were describing? Or do you just shoot right into the uncovered tube? If you do the latter, I wasn't even aware you could get an image that way.

My microscope came with four oculars - Two 10x wide angle and two 16x narrow view. I have the wide angle oculars for the two eyepieces and the 16x with the camera. That way I can see a lot of area when I look through the eyepieces, and the camera gets maximum magnification.

> Oh, and another thing about the scopes on Microscope.net – they advertise a few there that claim 1600X magnification. All I have to say is – bullshit. That's not even possible without very special optics, and certainly not the kind of thing your going to find on a $300 scope.

The 1600x magnification works well with the 16x ocular and 100x oil objective. Many $300 scopes have true 1600x.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7896955 - 01/18/08 10:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"My microscope came with four oculars - Two 10x wide angle and two 16x narrow view. I have the wide angle oculars for the two eyepieces and the 16x with the camera. That way I can see a lot of area when I look through the eyepieces, and the camera gets maximum magnification."

Interesting – and does the 16X ocular lens attach to the camera or to the photo tube?

"The 1600x magnification works well with the 16x ocular and 100x oil objective. Many $300 scopes have true 1600x."

Well, its a technical point, but an important one. True magnification is not just making an image larger, but resolving additional details. It is possible to "magnify" an image beyond 1000X very easily (a projecting attachment for a scope that projects a microscope image on a screen does that many times over), but what you're getting is what's called "empty magnification", meaning you're not actually resolving additional details in the image.

Basically, its like taking a 100X100 pixil jpeg and blowing it up to 160X160. In that case, you'll see a larger but pixilized image; in the case of a microscope, the image is larger but fuzzier. In some cases, a slight degree of empty magnification might make certain small objects easier to see, but as with blowing up a jpeg already at maximum resolution, there are definite limits to that.

High-quality visible-light microscopes are capable of true magnification of up to 1250X with a 100X objective and a 12.5X eyepiece. Beyond that, you're getting into the realm of systems like Nomarski interference scopes and fluorescense scopes.

Which is to say that companies advertising "1600X" magnification on an inexpensive scope are stretching the truth a bit.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7897011 - 01/18/08 11:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I use a cheapo trinocular amscope, I think its the model below.
http://store.amscope.com/t400-a.html

And a camera that attaches directly to a computer via a USB port, similar to this one. I'd need to look at the model numbers of the equipment to be sure.

http://store.amscope.com/md600.html

And I use glass coverslips, the thinnest available.

Now this scope isn't great but its adequate and you can't beat the price. Just be sure to not use the included immersion oil since its of poor quality. Also, the 1600x magnification isn't useful. Sure, it enlarges the image but you also lose detail.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Workman]
    #7897105 - 01/18/08 11:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

And I use glass coverslips, the thinnest available.




Actually, most 100X objectives should have the maximum cover slip thickness you should use written write on the objective. Which I think for most is 0.17, or a #1.5 coverslip. I believe using even thinner ones is OK, but definitely no thicker. How thin you want to go depends on how delicate of glass you want to deal with – you can get #0 coverslips, but they break extremely easy. Since a common specimen preparation method involves crushing a small piece of gill material under a slip with forceps, super-delicate coverslips can be a problem.

Quote:

Also, the 1600x magnification isn't useful. Sure, it enlarges the image but you also lose detail.




Actually, this is where the rather wonky-sounding term "numerical aperture" (NA) comes in handy. If you want a full technical explanation, its give in a Wikipedia article, here.

But basically, your maximum potential resolution is limited by the numerical aperture of your objective lens and your condenser, whichever is smaller. The rule of thumb I've read is the NA X 1000 is your maximum effective resolution with any objective/eyepiece combo. So if your NA on your 100X lens is 1.25 (and the NA on your condenser is 1.25 or greater), your maximum potential resolution is 1250X. So using anything up to 12.5X eyepiece will give you true magnification, while anything beyond that is empty magnification.

And actually, 1250x is only possible if you not only have your objective under oil immersion, but your condenser oiled and contacting the bottom of your slide. Any air gap means your effective NA is 1.0, meaning 1000X magnification, tops.


Edited by Strophariaceae (01/18/08 12:43 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Workman]
    #7898665 - 01/18/08 06:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes I was asking Alan if the resolution was any good set at 1600X's magnification.. Alan do you have a image to share of what your scope can do at that magnification?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecactu
culture and magic
Male

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7899351 - 01/18/08 09:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:yesnod::loveeyes::whoah:


--------------------

cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecanid
irregular meat sprocket
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 1 month, 7 days
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Workman]
    #7899935 - 01/19/08 12:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Just be sure to not use the included immersion oil since its of poor quality.




also be sure they don't lable the canada balsam immersion oil...


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecanid
irregular meat sprocket
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 1 month, 7 days
Trusted Identifier
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: canid]
    #7899937 - 01/19/08 12:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

also, my 16xs make a big difference over the 10s when used with the 40x, so i mostly keep them on.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8011680 - 02/12/08 01:13 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

In case anybody is interested, I have a source in one of the local mycological societies for premixed Melzer's reagent, Congo red, and aqueous KOH. Drop me a PM if interested.

Also, a couple other good places for general supplies:

http://www.tedpella.com/
http://www.microscope-depot.com/

Both have high-quality products at reasonable prices, plus they don't seem to have any problem dealing with hobbyists, unlike some scientific supply businesses


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineasci
HONGO
Male
Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 111
Loc: oregon
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Strophariaceae]
    #8014248 - 02/12/08 06:20 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

the nikon inverted phase contrast microscope are nice, but expensive and give very clear images at higher powers.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: asci]
    #8016136 - 02/13/08 01:14 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I wouldn't recommend an inverted microscope anyway for most mushroom ID/taxonomy type microscopy. If for some reason you need to view living cultures while they're still growing in a dish, then an inverted scope is useful. Otherwise, viewing regular slides is a pain in the ass with an inverted scope.

Inverted scopes don't inherently have any clearer images than upright scopes, however, because they're typically used for high-end research purposes, inverted scopes are usually expensive scopes with correspondingly good optics. However, its not like there aren't upright scopes with the same optics.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStrophariaceae
mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Microscope suggestion [Re: Workman]
    #8016240 - 02/13/08 01:59 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
Just be sure to not use the included [AmScope] immersion oil since its of poor quality.




For lens immersion oil, I highly recommend the Cargille "Type A" immersion oil, available from both Ted Pella and Microscope Depot. Its very high-quality immersion oil, easy to clean (which is important), and also cheap! If you want to get extra fancy and oil the condenser, I recommend their high-viscosity "Type NVH", which is carried by Pella, but not Microscope Depot.

Cargille (not to be mistaken for the agribusiness giant) actually specializes in immersion oil and, judging by their web page on the subject, knows their product:

http://www.cargille.com/immersionoilmicroscope.shtml


Edited by Strophariaceae (02/13/08 02:00 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Question about Microscopes and IDing
( 1 2 all )
cheesenoonions 5,300 23 11/17/02 07:47 PM
by ToxicMan
* microscopic identification Kttail 1,116 4 09/18/03 11:05 PM
by ToxicMan
* Positive ID with a Microscope sublimished 2,173 5 03/23/04 06:54 PM
by Anonymous
* microscope leafing 2,012 8 03/19/05 09:44 AM
by kadakuda
* Prints and Microscope acenXA 2,341 13 09/04/02 03:37 AM
by ToxicMan
* Blueing Mushroom Find in Oregon!!! (5/18)
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Joshua 29,270 140 12/08/18 02:14 PM
by Colonel
* Unidentified blueing object Ekstaza 1,239 8 08/23/03 01:00 PM
by Ekstaza
* making microscope slides *DELETED* MeetMeInEleusis 796 2 11/11/03 07:56 PM
by ToxicMan

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151, Land Trout
2,958 topic views. 1 members, 19 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 14 queries.