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dill705
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Registered: 12/10/07
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Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly)
#8015374 - 02/12/08 09:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just finished my first LC of Golden Teachers. It's a clone of a pin taken from a good cluster that displayed good traits after reaching maturity. I'm in the middle of my second PF Tek grow and have done one casing so far that has turned out real well so far. Now I want to move onto grains from my liquid mycelium culture.
My question is, which grain consistently has better potency?
I've searched the forums and all the good info that wasn't subjective I could find was RR saying that Rye has something like twenty times the tryptophan in it than popcorn. I've also read on the main site that trytophan has been used to increase potency. So, to me, it seems like rye would be the more potent grain to use.
Can anyone with experience with both give some anecdotal evidence to support my thesis that rye indeed does produce fruitbodies with higher alkaloid concentrations?
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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dill705
Amazed



Registered: 12/10/07
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8016546 - 02/13/08 08:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hopefully someone will have an answer for me soon...
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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0xYg3n
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8016723 - 02/13/08 09:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Those can't compare to horse poo. 
But hey, I think they are about equal when they are both done correctly.
There's a lot of talk about using popcorn on Myctopia, JFYI.
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dill705
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: 0xYg3n]
#8016882 - 02/13/08 10:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well I'm only on my second Verm/BRF grow and I'm still working out a perfected fruiting chamber for my situation (apartment).
Do you have any experience yourself with both? (cased directly, no hpoo)
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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bait_
AllSpice

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 2,292
Loc: This Cannot Be Happening
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8016898 - 02/13/08 10:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'de say comparing the nutrients that one grain has to offer for potency compared to another is just as worthless as arguing the "difference" in potency between individual strains. You will get unnoticeable differences whether grown on popcorn or rye or wbs.
My opinion only.
Edited by bait_ (02/13/08 10:10 AM)
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dill705
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: bait_]
#8016914 - 02/13/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, maybe RR will show up and have answers about the tryptophan content of rye...
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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udok
Stranger???



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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8016994 - 02/13/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dill705 said: Can anyone with experience with both give some anecdotal evidence to support my thesis that rye indeed does produce fruitbodies with higher alkaloid concentrations?
NO No NO! a kind of urban legend, and yes i know the work of Jochen Gartz. Off topic: I wish i were a mice at RRs computer somtimes
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bait_
AllSpice

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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: udok]
#8017041 - 02/13/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Popcorn has the lowest levels of triptophan of any spawn material I know of. There's a chart around here somewhere that shows triptophan content of various grains. However, there's not one shred of evidence that triptophan in the substrate does anything at all. I've grown on a substrate of seaweed, which is extremely high and fruits were potent but no more potent than those grown on other substrates. I was on this triptophan bandwagon too a few years ago before I realized it really made no difference at all. RR
taken from http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6252585#6252585
Edited by bait_ (02/13/08 10:53 AM)
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dill705
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: bait_]
#8017095 - 02/13/08 10:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If I hadn't searched in the first place I wouldn't even have the knowledge to ask this question.
In any case, I still haven't seen any reports of a decently controlled experiment. Maybe someone will come along with some OBJECTIVE information
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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bait_
AllSpice

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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8017132 - 02/13/08 11:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The reason there is no hard evidence is because it is pretty hard to get solid data on 'potency'. cubes grown on anything will make you see shit.
I don't think it's worth time arguing which substrate offers more nutrients for the creation of 'the good stuff'. You should decide on a substrate to use by factors such as ease of working with or availability.
The amount of potency difference due to substrate is so minuscule that it really has no effect on that unique trip.
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dill705
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: bait_]
#8017180 - 02/13/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok, that may well be true, but what I'm looking for is someone to have used an isolate to inoculate rye vs popcorn, then use the same batch of mix as a casing layer, incubated at the same temp, etc. etc...
Then after a thorough testing of the mushies, compare yield, and more importantly to me, potency.
If no-one has done this, hopefully someone has, Then I believe I have the necessary ability to conduct my own experiment and report my results to this forum. If, indeed I found it was just a subjective difference then I would be inclined to say so...
I'm just hoping someone has already done this...
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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bait_
AllSpice

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 2,292
Loc: This Cannot Be Happening
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8018229 - 02/13/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You can easily compare yields of 2 different grains. However, I am just wondering how you are going to measure the amount of psilocybin in the mushrooms produced from the different grains. Unless you have some way of giving a value to the psilocybin content in the mushrooms then there is no way this test can be objective.
If your test is just trying out each isolate and comparing the trips then there are far to many variables to determine that this grain produces more potent mushrooms than that grain.
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dill705
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: bait_]
#8018425 - 02/13/08 04:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm looking into some TLC.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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WeBeBad
Theoretischer Chemiker

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 75
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8019660 - 02/13/08 09:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you have the know-how to conduct anything related to chromatography? I'm not trying to be rude here, but you should answer yourself that question honestly and realistically. If you don't have much of a background in chemistry or anything lab related, it's probably a good idea to stay away from such activities. I don't think you've thought this all the way through because I really have no idea how you'd use TLC to accomplish what you're wanting to do. Furthermore, using chromatography in general for this kind of work would be tedious as fuck. If you're not a man of iron will, you'd give up very quickly.
And before you go into extractions, I'm going to block that too because you'd need one hell of a scale to measure any psilocin/psilocybin you might extract from your mushrooms, to any accurate degree.
You're only on your second grow and you're trying to involve yourself in a very very intricate process. Sorry mate, but it seems like you're chasing after a lost dream and until you get some serious experience and read a shitload on these forums, I suggest you drop it.
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dill705
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: WeBeBad]
#8019796 - 02/13/08 09:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Um, I took two years of chem and believe I've done one or two TLC's...
My GF is currently taking chem classes in college as well.http://http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article2.shtml Check this out... I haven't had time to read it all, but I think it might have something about chromatography
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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dill705
Amazed



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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8019902 - 02/13/08 09:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Furthermore, el dickhead, I've already got the thought experiment worked out, just need to type it out and have a good regimen of writing down the variables, to show consistency, etc...
Fortunately, I have a reasonably easy going college schedule and all the stuff I'll need except rye. It might take a while and I got some jars going, But I've got two different isolates of GT's in LC, I'll spawn to both and Incubate in the same conditions, case with the same mix, fruit in same FC with perlite, which has worked well for my first grow. 10 cakes 26 grams dry first flush. I've got 3 cakes cased that had a nice pinset and now have bolts an inch and a half.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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dill705
Amazed



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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: WeBeBad]
#8019912 - 02/13/08 09:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sorry, but condescending tones make me work harder to prove to myself I can do it
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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WeBeBad
Theoretischer Chemiker

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 75
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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8020020 - 02/13/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I stand corrected. Best of luck to you mate.
Sorry for shoving off as condescending. I'm a bit of a high stress individual and tend to come off as a bitch.
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0xYg3n
topdawg



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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: udok]
#8022376 - 02/14/08 01:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
udok said:
Quote:
dill705 said:
Off topic: I wish i were a mice at RRs computer somtimes
Oh brother.
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dill705
Amazed



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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: 0xYg3n]
#8022735 - 02/14/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey, why am I quoted? It was udok that said that...
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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dill705
Amazed



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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) [Re: dill705]
#8024962 - 02/14/08 10:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm going to order some manure and do a monotub so I can afford all the equipment I'll need.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


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Re: Rye vs. Popcorn Potency (cased directly) (moved) [Re: dill705]
#8034048 - 02/17/08 09:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.
Reason: Moved to cultivation
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