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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio
#8012626 - 02/12/08 09:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and her advisers increasingly believe that, after a series of losses, she has been boxed into a must-win position in the Ohio and Texas primaries on March 4, and she has begun reassuring anxious donors and superdelegates that the nomination is not slipping away from her, aides said on Monday.
Mrs. Clinton held a buck-up-the-troops conference call on Monday with donors, superdelegates and other supporters; several said afterward that she had sounded tired and a little down, but determined about Ohio and Texas.
They also said that they had not been especially soothed, and that they believed she might be on a losing streak that could jeopardize her competitiveness in those states.
“She has to win both Ohio and Texas comfortably, or she’s out,” said one superdelegate who has endorsed Mrs. Clinton, and who spoke on condition of anonymity to share a candid assessment. “The campaign is starting to come to terms with that.” Campaign advisers, also speaking privately in order to speak plainly, confirmed this view.
Several Clinton superdelegates, whose votes could help decide the nomination, said Monday that they were wavering in the face of Mr. Obama’s momentum after victories in Washington State, Nebraska, Louisiana and Maine last weekend.
Some said that they, like the hundreds of uncommitted superdelegates still at stake, might ultimately “go with the flow,” in the words of one, and support the candidate who appears to show the most strength in the primaries to come.
The Clinton team moved on Monday to shift the spotlight off the candidate’s short-term challenges and focus instead on “the long run,” in the words of her senior strategist, Mark Penn.
“She has consistently shown an electoral resiliency in difficult situations that have made her a winner,” Mr. Penn said. “Senator Obama has in fact never had a serious Republican challenger.”
Clinton advisers have said that superdelegates should support the candidate who they believe would be the best nominee and the best president, while Obama advisers have argued that superdelegates should reflect the will of the voters and also take into account who they believe would be the best nominee. Superdelegates are Democratic party leaders and elected officials, and their votes could decide the nomination if neither candidate wins enough delegates to clinch a victory after the nominating contests end.
With primaries on Tuesday in Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia, Clinton advisers were pessimistic about her chances, though some held out hope for a surprise performance in Virginia.
And as polls show Mr. Obama gaining strength in Wisconsin and his native state, Hawaii, which vote next Tuesday, advisers, donors and superdelegates said they were resigned to a possible Obama sweep of the rest of February’s contests.
Some donors also expressed concern about a widening money imbalance between Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton: Obama fund-raisers say he is taking in roughly $1 million a day, while Clinton fund-raisers say she is taking in about half of that, mostly online. Mrs. Clinton’s aides say that the campaign was virtually broke as of the Feb. 5 primaries, but that finances have stabilized.
Mr. Obama’s financial edge allowed him to begin running television advertisements in Ohio and Texas on Monday, while the Clinton campaign plans to begin advertising on Tuesday. Clinton advisers say that she will have advertisements running statewide in both Ohio and Texas, and that she will have advertisements in English and Spanish in Texas. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/us/politics/12clinton.html?ei=5065&en=83bd560436fa713f&ex=1203397200&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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dill705
Amazed
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8012665 - 02/12/08 10:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ohio and Texas need to step up for change and vote Obama
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: dill705]
#8012721 - 02/12/08 10:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dill705 said: Ohio and Texas need to step up for change and vote Obama
change......
“Barack Obama” picks his campaign slogan
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/01/31/video-barack-obama-picks-his-campaign-slogan/
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8012782 - 02/12/08 10:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think crying will help her again. I wonder what spoiled brat dirty tricks she will try to pull.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: fireworks_god]
#8012818 - 02/12/08 10:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Florida and Michigan scam.
i do not like Obama, but i am praying that he can take out the Clinton machine.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8012965 - 02/12/08 11:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is crucial for the future of the US that Hillary win the Dem's nomination. With her as the Dem nominee, a Republican win is assured. With B-Rock at the helm, it's not a lock that McCain will be elected.
Phred
--------------------
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8013013 - 02/12/08 12:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not a lock?
I think if B-Rock gets the nod from the Dems Mccain is done.
Unless they find video of Barack and Michelle smoking crack in their campaign van while letting James Carville diddle their little girls, he doesn't have a chance in hell of losing to that old fuck.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8013030 - 02/12/08 12:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
i do not like Obama, but i am praying that he can take out the Clinton machine.
He will. He now has the message, momentum and money to get the job done. He will only pick up strength as the primaries continue. Hillary had to loan her own campaign $5 mill while Obama raised an obscene amount of money during the same time frame. That says a lot.
It may come down to those super delegates though. I am betting they will ultimately side with Obama (who I expect to have the most primary delegates by then) although I am sure Bill has been twisting their arms behind the scenes. Whoever has the most delegates at convention time should garner the support of the super delegates. If not there will be big, big trouble for the democrats.
I am not sure why you would prefer Hillary as the nominee though as Obama would be an 8% pt winner over McCain today while Hillary is statistically dead even.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zorbman]
#8013041 - 02/12/08 12:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think it will come down to them.
She is on the run and like you say he has all the momentum.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8014208 - 02/12/08 06:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: It is crucial for the future of the US that Hillary win the Dem's nomination. With her as the Dem nominee, a Republican win is assured. With B-Rock at the helm, it's not a lock that McCain will be elected.
Phred
I'm not afraid of the Magic Negro! Obama is an empty suit.
He has what? 2 years of experience in the Senate. WTF He's been running for President longer than that!
And how far can this empty bullshit of “change” and “hope” take him? his entire campaign is all fluff.....
WHAT HAS OBAMA DONE!
anybody......
BTW talking is not doing.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8014356 - 02/12/08 06:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just one accomplishment?
Barack Seinfeld.......
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8014379 - 02/12/08 06:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Perhaps the best is yet to come?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8014383 - 02/12/08 06:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: It is crucial for the future of the US that Hillary win the Dem's nomination. With her as the Dem nominee, a Republican win is assured. With B-Rock at the helm, it's not a lock that McCain will be elected.
Phred
It cracks me up how you thing a Democrat is going to bring the apocalypse upon the US. If we can make it through the last atrocious eight years, I think the other part deserves a chance to do something worthwhile.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Redstorm]
#8015420 - 02/12/08 10:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
Phred said: It is crucial for the future of the US that Hillary win the Dem's nomination. With her as the Dem nominee, a Republican win is assured. With B-Rock at the helm, it's not a lock that McCain will be elected.
Phred
It cracks me up how you thing a Democrat is going to bring the apocalypse upon the US. If we can make it through the last atrocious eight years, I think the other part deserves a chance to do something worthwhile.
Agreed 100%. You can say it will be a bad 8 years if you like, but its idiocy to say the country cannot survive.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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fireworks_god
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zorbman]
#8015836 - 02/13/08 12:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: He will. He now has the message, momentum and money to get the job done. He will only pick up strength as the primaries continue. Hillary had to loan her own campaign $5 mill while Obama raised an obscene amount of money during the same time frame. That says a lot.
It may come down to those super delegates though. I am betting they will ultimately side with Obama (who I expect to have the most primary delegates by then) although I am sure Bill has been twisting their arms behind the scenes. Whoever has the most delegates at convention time should garner the support of the super delegates. If not there will be big, big trouble for the democrats.
It doesn't bode well for the Hillary campaign, it would seem. I see that her campaign is saying that some whites are not ready to vote for Obama, which shows how desperate they are to take any swing at Obama they can take, trying to play the race card. I think it will only hurt her to do this, because Obama has been pretty capable of bringing in a lot of white voters, and he is in a better position to respond, as the front-runner now. He just won three more primaries tonight.
Her funding is worse than they try to make it seem, and her campaign's conclusion that it lies on winning in Texas and Ohio is a sign that she is in real trouble. I see distinct parallels between this and Giuliani expressing that his campaign depended on Florida, while he kept taking loss after loss after loss in the meantime, and she has two states that she must win.... doesn't look good.
The Party is ready to seal the deal as swiftly as possible to stay competitive in the national race, and to prevent the loss of their own unity. They are ready to shift to whoever has the most momentum, which Obama clearly has, and he's very preferable as their candidate anyways. Tom Daschle has been talking with other Democratic leaders to bring them to Obama, and its been noted that there are senior Democratic leaders who do not want another Clinton in the White House.
She's too conservative for their party, too divisive to lead them, and she's favored by conservatives as their candidate more than their own eventual nomination. Hillary cannot handle appearing weak in the national spotlight, and she's already underneath a lot of stress. I think she'll suffer a nervous breakdown soon if she doesn't realize that she simply needs to back down from the campaign.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: fireworks_god]
#8015909 - 02/13/08 12:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Unless she can somehow shift the conversation between now and March 4th I think her campaign is effectively over.
Obama has the MoJo.
And it is risin' baby.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zorbman]
#8015914 - 02/13/08 12:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It'll be over on the evening of March 3rd, barring a miracle.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8015969 - 02/13/08 12:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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He also has a great plan that will be very progressive and create a lot of growth and development in this country, and he'll have the support of a Democratic Congress to make it happen. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in office.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Redstorm]
#8016403 - 02/13/08 06:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
It cracks me up how you thing a Democrat is going to bring the apocalypse upon the US. If we can make it through the last atrocious eight years, I think the other part deserves a chance to do something worthwhile.
Although four years of having a Lefty in the White House may be survivable (grim as fuck, mind you -- especially if he/she manages to get socialized medicine up and running in that time -- but survivable), having four (or even more... who knows what medical advances we might see coming out in the next few decades to extend lifespan) decades of a Supreme Court packed with Lefty legislators rather than constitutionalist judges won't be survivable. It'll be the end of the last remaining vestiges of America.
Phred
--------------------
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blackegg
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8016556 - 02/13/08 08:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Phred: Which 'vestiges' are you talking about?
Texas and Ohio: I expect her to win Texas. I don't know about Ohio though.
The thought that the whole thing could be decided by Super-Delegates is disheartening to me.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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blackegg
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8016568 - 02/13/08 08:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Phred: Which 'vestiges' are you talking about?
Texas and Ohio: I personally expect her to win Texas. I don't know about Ohio though.
That the whole thing could be decided by Super-Delegates is disheartening to me.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8016733 - 02/13/08 09:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: It'll be over on the evening of March 3rd, barring a miracle.
Oh PULEASE.....The Clintons will NEVER let a BLACK DUDE BEAT THEM!!
NEVER!!!!
There's going to be blood in the streets.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: blackegg]
#8016739 - 02/13/08 09:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blackegg said: That the whole thing could be decided by Super-Delegates is disheartening to me.
Well, you know how the Democrats are sooooo "Progressive" and all....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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blackegg
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8016963 - 02/13/08 10:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you drunk? I'm just asking because you seem 'impaired' in some way.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: blackegg]
#8016981 - 02/13/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blackegg said: Are you drunk?
Are you delusional?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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blackegg
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8016997 - 02/13/08 10:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, seriously...are you drunk? Pulled another all-nighter at the titty bar and now you're here to rip-some-shit on the political forums?
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: blackegg]
#8017008 - 02/13/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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VIVA LA REVOLUTION!
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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blackegg
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Registered: 01/25/06
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: lonestar2004]
#8017075 - 02/13/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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hahaha... that's more like it.
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8017473 - 02/13/08 12:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Phred, have you been paying attention the last 8 years? How the fuck can socialized medicine (not that I support it) possibly be worse for our economy than an intellectually-challenged man-ape spending over $6 Billion dollars a month on someone else's country???
At least with a Dem the money will be spent on the people who it was taken from.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: ApJunkie]
#8017493 - 02/13/08 12:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The amount of money that socialized medicine will cost and the degradation of care that will ensue, not to mention the medical scrutiny that all of the dopers, fatties and risk takers will be subject to, will make the money spent in Iraq look like something bought at the dollar store.
--------------------
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ApJunkie
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zappaisgod]
#8017529 - 02/13/08 12:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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regardless, it's an absurd fallacy to say the Dem's will destroy this country after the reckless infrastructure destruction propagated by the current administration.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: ApJunkie]
#8017594 - 02/13/08 01:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Somebody seems to not be aware that there is a Congress and state governments, which are far more responsible than any administration for that particular bit of business.
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blackegg
...has left the building.
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zappaisgod]
#8017944 - 02/13/08 02:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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"the degradation of care that will ensue" ...for who?
The best healthcare money can buy will still be available to those that can afford it!
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: blackegg]
#8017966 - 02/13/08 02:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is obviously true that gazillionaires will have all they can get, as ever. The degradation will occur for the middle, who will become lumped with the poor and the health care providers will become bureaucrats instead of....providers. Every denial of care they perform will be seen as a boon for the collective. It will become in the interest of the collective to deny the individual. I should posterize that:
It will become in the interest of the collective to deny the individual
Karl Marx 101
Gulag Gulag Gulag Gulag Gulag Gulag Gulag
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zappaisgod]
#8018120 - 02/13/08 03:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The amount of money that socialized medicine will cost and the degradation of care that will ensue, not to mention the medical scrutiny that all of the dopers, fatties and risk takers will be subject to, will make the money spent in Iraq look like something bought at the dollar store.
Sources? Or is that just more of the same, typical, bullshit mud-flinging, desperately seeking an adhesive target? I mean, you do realize that the top Repub candidate has seriously entertained the possibility of 100 years in Iraq. No way in god damned hell can our country afford that, in any sense of the word.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: unbeliever]
#8018133 - 02/13/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wonder how much money Bush's prescription drug benefit for seniors will end up costing?
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Phred
Fred's son
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Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: unbeliever]
#8018135 - 02/13/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I mean, you do realize that the top Repub candidate has seriously entertained the possibility of 100 years in Iraq.
The US has been sixty-two years in Japan and Germany, fifty-five or so in South Korea. That is the context in which McCain made his remark, as those who bothered to read the actual remark rather than reflexively parrot Leftie talking points know.
Phred
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8018147 - 02/13/08 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
I mean, you do realize that the top Repub candidate has seriously entertained the possibility of 100 years in Iraq.
The US has been sixty-two years in Japan and Germany, fifty-five or so in South Korea. That is the context in which McCain made his remark, as those who bothered to read the actual remark rather than reflexively parrot Leftie talking points know.
Yes and 100 years in Iraq will be the same as our long presence in Japan or Germany. Get a fucking clue.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zorbman]
#8018150 - 02/13/08 03:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I wonder how much money Bush's prescription drug benefit for seniors will end up costing?
Way too fucking much. The only thing good one can say about it (and I admit it's not much of a much) is that the Dems pissed and moaned that his plan wasn't enough.
This cockamamie "economic stimulus plan" with the 600 dollar rebates will cost too much, too. Total fuckup. Again, the Dems wanted even more cash handed out, but that doesn't give Bush and the Republicans a pass on it. Sheer stupidity.
Phred
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 15 years, 11 days
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8018179 - 02/13/08 03:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
I wonder how much money Bush's prescription drug benefit for seniors will end up costing?
Way too fucking much. The only thing good one can say about it (and I admit it's not much of a much) is that the Dems pissed and moaned that his plan wasn't enough.
This cockamamie "economic stimulus plan" with the 600 dollar rebates will cost too much, too. Total fuckup. Again, the Dems wanted even more cash handed out, but that doesn't give Bush and the Republicans a pass on it. Sheer stupidity.
Phred
I tend to agree with you on that. Don't get me wrong, I'll be glad to have the extra cash, who wouldn't. But it's not very fiscally responsible (speaking as a society). It's a band-aid on a beached whale.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: unbeliever]
#8018442 - 02/13/08 04:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
unbeliever said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The amount of money that socialized medicine will cost and the degradation of care that will ensue, not to mention the medical scrutiny that all of the dopers, fatties and risk takers will be subject to, will make the money spent in Iraq look like something bought at the dollar store.
Sources? Or is that just more of the same, typical, bullshit mud-flinging, desperately seeking an adhesive target? I mean, you do realize that the top Repub candidate has seriously entertained the possibility of 100 years in Iraq. No way in god damned hell can our country afford that, in any sense of the word.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=459574&in_page_id=1770 http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/oct/01/health Some douche recently introduced a bill to deny health coverage to fatties somewhere south. I don't give a fuck. Remove your head from your ass and find it yourself.
Phred is exactly right. We will be there for as long as it takes and should. You aren't there, don't pay any taxes to speak of and are entitled to zero of mine. You're only bitch is that you aren't getting a big enough hand out and think you'll get more if we leave Iraq. Wrong.
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 15 years, 11 days
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: zappaisgod]
#8018810 - 02/13/08 06:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
unbeliever said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The amount of money that socialized medicine will cost and the degradation of care that will ensue, not to mention the medical scrutiny that all of the dopers, fatties and risk takers will be subject to, will make the money spent in Iraq look like something bought at the dollar store.
Sources? Or is that just more of the same, typical, bullshit mud-flinging, desperately seeking an adhesive target? I mean, you do realize that the top Repub candidate has seriously entertained the possibility of 100 years in Iraq. No way in god damned hell can our country afford that, in any sense of the word.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=459574&in_page_id=1770 http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/oct/01/health Some douche recently introduced a bill to deny health coverage to fatties somewhere south. I don't give a fuck. Remove your head from your ass and find it yourself.
Phred is exactly right. We will be there for as long as it takes and should. You aren't there, don't pay any taxes to speak of and are entitled to zero of mine. You're only bitch is that you aren't getting a big enough hand out and think you'll get more if we leave Iraq. Wrong.
That has got to be the stupidest string of nonsensical drivel I have ever read. Is this what passes for "debate" in this forum these days? Christ, what a fucking joke. Why not throw in "Amercia, FUCK YEAH!" and "Die commies!" while you're at it. Seriously, do you even read what you reply to? Or do you just hammer out bullshit in an orgy of self-righteous flag waving?
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: unbeliever]
#8018827 - 02/13/08 06:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
unbeliever said: "Amercia, FUCK YEAH!" and "Die commies!"
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Phred]
#8018850 - 02/13/08 06:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
It cracks me up how you thing a Democrat is going to bring the apocalypse upon the US. If we can make it through the last atrocious eight years, I think the other part deserves a chance to do something worthwhile.
Although four years of having a Lefty in the White House may be survivable (grim as fuck, mind you -- especially if he/she manages to get socialized medicine up and running in that time -- but survivable), having four (or even more... who knows what medical advances we might see coming out in the next few decades to extend lifespan) decades of a Supreme Court packed with Lefty legislators rather than constitutionalist judges won't be survivable. It'll be the end of the last remaining vestiges of America.
Phred
Can moonbats be conservative?
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: For Clinton, Bid Hinges on Texas and Ohio [Re: Redstorm]
#8020028 - 02/13/08 10:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Can moonbats be conservative?
annaPhreda?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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