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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens?
    #8009170 - 02/11/08 03:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone have some info on Buddhism/Tao and its stance on Entheogens?

:yinyang:


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8009185 - 02/11/08 03:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

If you get a chance, check out the book Zig Zag Zen.

In the West, it's a mixed bag, because Buddhism has been tied up with the use of entheogens for as long as it's been around in this hemisphere. Many American Dharma teachers had their first awakening experiences with psychedelics. Most agree that they can be very beneficial but can not take one all the way to liberation.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Lion]
    #8009256 - 02/11/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I feel they give a taste, thats why they have brought me on my path to to the refuge of Buddha and Tao. I always felt a desire for something deeper, but the experience through psilocybin took me by the collar on put me on that path.

I want to learn more of Zen buddhism, so far i have only read general/tibetan and the way of the Tao.

Could you suggest some more literature for me Lion?

Im a tad tapped money wise at the monment and the only ZigZagZen i can find is £50! ($100)

:frown:

Thank you kindly :grin:


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Edited by Chronic7 (02/11/08 03:24 PM)

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OfflineLion
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8009279 - 02/11/08 03:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, some books I've enjoyed about Zen...

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki
What is Zen? by Alan Watts
The Way of Zen by Watts
Mystics and Zen Masters by Thomas Merton

On Taoism...

What is Tao? by Watts


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8009295 - 02/11/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't believe they can take you all the way to liberation, but imagine psilocybin administered little bit by bit over the course of years, would you be at a higher state of consciousness?

And those that say tolerance would kick in, only tolerance of trying to find what you were attached to form your last trip is what kicks in. IMO.

If i knew an easy way to extract it i would try it for a week at least, but powdering shrooms trying it just doesn't work well!

PS excerpts form zigzagzen are good but not worth £50 to me right now, if you feel the need to tell me anything feel free though, the section on psychedelics/buddhism are what I'm most interested in.

Also does the book have nice imagery, i saw a dark forces one (i think) and it looked awesome!


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Edited by Chronic7 (02/11/08 03:32 PM)

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8009867 - 02/11/08 05:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not 100% on my source here, I think it was from Richard Rudgley's Encyclopedia of Pyschoactive Substances... anywho

There was an ancient sect of Taoist monks who used a combination of cannabis and ephedra to divine the future.

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OfflineLion
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8009891 - 02/11/08 05:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PS excerpts form zigzagzen are good but not worth £50 to me right now, if you feel the need to tell me anything feel free though, the section on psychedelics/buddhism are what I'm most interested in.


Yeah, maybe it's not worth paying for. Basically the gist of the book is that there are no absolutes on a spiritual path regarding psychedelics. Psychedelics have been a source of healing and insight for me but they also have limitations, such as possibly strengthening a sense of self (the one to whom all these mind-blowing experiences are happening...) and also detracting from being here now - if you're thinking about the big trip you're going to take tonight, you're not necessarily going to be paying attention to what's happening now.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Lion]
    #8010002 - 02/11/08 06:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Cool, i guess what it boils down to is nothing external can liberate you, only yourself.

Yet i beleive entheogens, especially mushrooms (only entheogen ive tried short of weed) can provide true experience's, your seeing whats really there, not what isn't.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8010631 - 02/11/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I meditated religiously for 10 years and have done entheogens for 3 times that long.

I never experienced anything vaguely similar between the two. Not sure why anyone links them.


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OfflineDraigan
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Registered: 12/19/07
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8010703 - 02/11/08 08:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I really don't think drugs should be used for that purpose.

I find the best way to achieve connection with things is while sober.
I am reminded of dreaming while on mushrooms. Since I am not on mushrooms all the time, it is the reality of sobriety I seek to master.


edit: I do them for fun :laugh:

Edited by Draigan (02/11/08 08:21 PM)

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Invisibleappleorange
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Draigan]
    #8010814 - 02/11/08 08:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The Dalai Lama was giving a speech at a univeristy when a student there asked him "Do you think psychedelic drugs can enlighten us?"

His response was, "I sure hope so!"

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OfflineDraigan
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Registered: 12/19/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: appleorange]
    #8010887 - 02/11/08 08:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Lol. Very wise to say. What a good politician :smile:

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Invisibleappleorange
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Draigan]
    #8010933 - 02/11/08 09:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

haha, yea. that statement could be interpreted in so many different ways. that guy is boss. :smirk:

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8011134 - 02/11/08 09:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

ya know, so many people try to pin something they like or that has had an impact on there life to some type of 'something' that has a name that others can recognize.

bottom line...

"Rather than continuing to seek the truth, simply let go of your views." Gautama Buddha.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Offlinebodhiman777
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Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8011173 - 02/11/08 10:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

how much knowledge do you plan to accumulate on the art of BEING?


--------------------
... and so forth

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OfflineLion
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Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8012195 - 02/12/08 06:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I meditated religiously for 10 years and have done entheogens for 3 times that long.

I never experienced anything vaguely similar between the two. Not sure why anyone links them.


Really?? I've definitely had moments of psychedelic-like awareness during and after meditation. Not 100% overlap, but the awareness reminded me of aspects of psychedelic mind-states that I had forgotten.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedruglord
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 90
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Buddhism/Tao & Entheogens? [Re: Lion]
    #8012310 - 02/12/08 07:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I meditated religiously for 10 years and have done entheogens for 3 times that long.

I never experienced anything vaguely similar between the two. Not sure why anyone links them.


Really?? I've definitely had moments of psychedelic-like awareness during and after meditation. Not 100% overlap, but the awareness reminded me of aspects of psychedelic mind-states that I had forgotten.




Exactly. They both get you to high levels of concentration where everything makes a stronger impression on you. You're more sensitive and because of this, you get a better read on things.

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