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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: So basically what you're saying is that she gave her opinion once and now she shouldn't speak her mind about "the game"? But you can disagree with her, only that she shouldn't disagree with you?  This is a free forum, you are not in the position to make this kid of judgment so I don't see the purpose of your complains.  Also... you are telling her that her advice can be detrimental to the OP?  The OP is looking for advice how to be around women, and a female advice is refused because men know better?
wtf? where did you get all this from?
My posts were designed to make NiamHyx(sp?) understand that she can't write off helpful posts as "bullshit" because she disagrees with the principles of a subculture. Fact of the matter is, most of the guidelines and development techniques used in "the game" would greatly help the OP.
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And to NiamHyx (sp?)
-Clearly you wouldn't walk up to a guy you've been eye-fucking (sarcasm) at a coffee shop and ask him which cologne he likes more. Wrong setting, and wrong target. If you were to go to a bar, dressed appropriately, and asked a guy you thought was cute the same question - the results would be entirely different (most likely positive).
I'm not writing anyone else's opinion's off as wrong, in bad taste, or any other negatively descriptive word. I'm just saying that the help given citing "the game" isn't all bullshit, it has some value to it.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: memes]
#8016660 - 02/13/08 08:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
meams said:
I'm not writing anyone else's opinion's off as wrong, in bad taste, or any other negatively descriptive word. I'm just saying that the help given citing "the game" isn't all bullshit, it has some value to it.

The name calling in this thread is unbelievable. To the critics: it is possible to read a book, learn what you can from it and apply your own morals and principles to what you have learned. The central theme in the book is to assert your own self-worth, and to be unafraid of engaging other people, men and women alike. I have no interest in 'sarging', or the club scene, or sex without mutual respect, but I do have an interest in meeting more people and opening up to them.
To dismiss this book as pure shit -- and those who have found value in it as desperate scumbags -- is rude and unhelpful. Disparage and berate whoever you want, but don't call it helpful and don't do it in this forum.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Regarding and treating women as objects is degrading. The central premise of "the game" is that women are objects and that they are easily tricked into putting out via certain manipulative techniques. This is my problem with it, and this is why it's creepy.
I have no problem with people learning how to be confident and how to approach women, but "the game" is not marketed as a tool for increasing confidence and learning how to talk to women, it's marketed as a technique for getting as much pussy as is humanly possible. Humans aren't objects. They are individuals with thier own desires, interests, needs and motivations and treating them like machinery that just needs to have the right buttons pushed in the right sequence is demeaning.
That said, I'll repeat that there is nothing wrong with being extremely promiscuous, but it should be practiced in a way respectful of the feelings of each partner. Try reading The Ethical Slut.
One final point: "the game" also exploits insecure men that are looking for ways to boost thier confidence and interpersonal skills, manipulating them into buying all kinds of "products." It's the lowest kind of marketing sham that preys on the alienation and loneliness of real people.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8016920 - 02/13/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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again, NiamhNyx, regardless of how "the game" is marketed, that does not rule out the fact that the OP can gain valuable information on how to gain self confidence using material generated by that subculture.
Your opinion on the matter (morally) is 100% correct, and i agree with it. But that doesn't negate the fact that it can help our friend in need
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: memes]
#8016969 - 02/13/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sure, someone could cull helpful tips out of it if they filter through the crap floating on top. But chances are, someone who doesn't have a clue (I am not refering to the OP) could also very well be negatively influenced by the parts that you or I might immediately ignore. So isn't it better to find a source of information on confidence building and tips for how to approach women from some more reputable source? I'm sure that kind of thing is out there.
Also, I think it's important, if something like "the game" is going to be recommended to someone seeking advice, for the problems with it to be pointed out to him so he has all the tools to assess it on his own.
So is there possibly helpful information? Sure. Is it possibly helpful for a woman to point out why a lot of women wouldn't like to be approached like that/treated that way? Absolutely.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8017024 - 02/13/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm glad we've reached a common ground here, I know i feel better :-D
I'm passionate about the subject becuase I've read the game, and another book on the similar subject "magic bullets" and have gained a lot of insight from them.
I have not set foot in a club, ever. And only enter bars when my band's playing at one. However, since i read them and applied some of the information in there, i went from being written off as "friend" material to girls - to being desired by many of them. I can think of 5 girls right now (3 of which are friends) that want to ride me, but none of them will get it, hahahaha.
I dunno why, but my standards are very high for the minimal amount of poontang that i get
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WhiskeyClone
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Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8017120 - 02/13/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Regarding and treating women as objects is degrading. The central premise of "the game" is that women are objects and that they are easily tricked into putting out via certain manipulative techniques. This is my problem with it, and this is why it's creepy.
Having a problem with a book's perceived 'message' is one thing, cutting down people who have found value in it is quite another.
I did not interpret objectification of women as a prerequisite for using any of the strategies described in the book. The message I remember is to have conversations with women. Engage them as people, as equals; appeal to their interests and be genuine while you do it. Surely there are disrespectful goons who have read the book too. Don't fault others for the way some people behave. Anybody who has an ethical issue with a particular technique or attitude doesn't have to employ that technique or adopt that attitude.
But that is irrelevant. How can somebody's disrespectful attitude 'degrade' another person? OrgoneConclusion outlined this erroneous perception in the "X is Depressing" thread so I won't go into it here.
Quote:
One final point: "the game" also exploits insecure men that are looking for ways to boost thier confidence and interpersonal skills, manipulating them into buying all kinds of "products." It's the lowest kind of marketing sham that preys on the alienation and loneliness of real people.
Caveat emptor. It's a product like anything else. These days almost all products are marketed by preying on people's insecurities. Look at the beauty industry. These products make billions as a result of women's fears, and how many of them provide a lasting, helpful improvement to a person's life? How many times have you heard a friend say "Olay Regenerist turned my life around." Anybody who takes responsibility for him or herself need not worry about being manipulated by marketing.
It should be noted that The Game and its ilk have helped many people get over their irrational fear of socialization. The only thing that boosts confidence is experience, and a few pointers give a lot of men that boost they need to start engaging women. Maybe that guy you've been flirting with would have already talked to you had he read The Game. Would you suddenly disqualify him from being a respectable human being if you found out he had?
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Quote:
WhiskeyClone said: Maybe that guy you've been flirting with would have already talked to you had he read The Game. Would you suddenly disqualify him from being a respectable human being if you found out he had?
Tricky turnaround. Very good point.
I've always been referred to by my female peers as "the greatest guy, best person ever" blah blah kind of things. As far from a scumbag as you can possibly get. But i've taken loads from those (and similar) books. It's all about how you apply the learned information
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: memes]
#8017238 - 02/13/08 11:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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"the game" (i hate writing this it sounds so cliche and stupid) is also for guys that aren't necessarily Brad Pitts.
How is an insecure guy, that has below-average looks supposed to get a girl that he wants based on his personality, if it is eroding in low-self esteem?
That's a toughy ain't it? So what should he do? Should he have faith that the girl actualy is interested in him? Come on now... it's a cold world outside, once you get in it's warm, but how do you open thes doors if you don't have any keys? You gotta learn 'em. Learn some basic principles so he doesn't make himself look like a scared little boy (who he naturaly might be at the time) and increae his chances of wooing the girl he wants.
Ti's the way it is, and girls can follow similar principles and get a guy too. I've been seduced before.. by a girl that I did not find attractive atall. She pulled it off very well!
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: Ginseng1]
#8017587 - 02/13/08 01:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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One of the big beefs I have with the game and the people who are thinking a girl will solve their problems is the fact they are completely avoiding the issue that has brought them into this mess.
That being that they don't love themselves.
You can pour your heart and soul into fucking chicks day in and day out and work on your game to improve your self-confidence around the ladies. At the end of the day though when all that is set aside, you're still the same mess you were to begin with. Without the sex, pseudo-confidence, you are still an insecure wreck.
My philosophy for picking up chicks is to love yourself and to love life. When you are at peace with yourself, everything will fall into place. I think most women can see into the fact that it is not them that you love, but merely their company. This is why "nice" guys have so many problems, they will settle for any woman, and who wants to be in a relationship with a man that doesn't have sincere feelings for her? She knows deep down that he would probably settle for any woman willing to give him the time of day.
To the op. I remember being 16 and hearing about all of my friends losing their v-card and it just made me more and more anxious as time went on. But, after losing my virginity at 17, I remember coming home and thinking that I should be the happiest motherfucker in the world, but I just felt seminally happy, it wasn't a big deal. I was still the same person I was before, nothing inside me had changed.
My advice to you is to focus on being happy right now, not losing your virginity. You could die a virgin, but many people will die blind or def. Are you going to let your imperfections hold you back from enjoying life?
*Peace
Edited by appleorange (02/13/08 09:18 PM)
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: appleorange]
#8018962 - 02/13/08 07:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for taking that one on, appleorange!
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: appleorange]
#8019272 - 02/13/08 07:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: One of the big beefs I have with the game and the people who are thinking a girl will solve their problems is the fact they are completely avoiding the issue that has brought them into this mess.
That being that they don't love themselves.
You can pour your heart and soul into fucking chicks day in and day out and working on your game to improve your self-confidence around the ladies. At the end of the day though when all that is set aside, you're still the same mess you were to begin with. Without the sex, pseudo-confidence, you are still an insecure wreck.
My philosophy for picking up chicks is to love yourself and to love life. When you are at peace with yourself, everything will fall into place. I think most women can see into the fact that it is not them that you love, but merely their company. This is why "nice" guys have so many problems, they will settle for any woman, and who wants to be in a relationship with a man that doesn't have sincere feelings for her? She knows deep down that he would probably settle for any woman willing to give him the time of day.
To the op. I remember being 16 and hearing about all of my friends losing their v-card and it just made me more and more anxious as time went on. But, after losing my virginity at 17, I remember coming home and thinking that I should be the happiest motherfucker in the world, but I just felt seminally happy, it wasn't a big deal. I was still the same person I was before, nothing inside me had changed.
My advice to you is to focus on being happy right now, not losing your virginity. You could die a virgin, but many people will die blind or def. Are you going to let your imperfections hold you back from enjoying life?
*Peace
I agree 100%.
Love yourself. Smile at the world and it will smile back.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Hopeless Virgin... [Re: appleorange]
#8019278 - 02/13/08 07:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Spot on
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Anonymous #1
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Yea Maybe if I stop trying so hard it will just happen. That is what I hope anyways. Saturday I am hanging out with this neighbor girl who is fly.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Quote:
Anonymous said:
Maybe focus on her, instead of sex with her.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I didn't get laid until I was 21
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Anonymous #1
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Quote:
WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:
Anonymous said:
Maybe focus on her, instead of sex with her.
Psch I'm not gay dude. 
I've known her since the beginning of this year so I mean we have gotten to know each other. Time to step it up is what I'm sayin.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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So focusing on her makes you... gay? 
Well yeah but anyways, the amount of time you spent with her is not that important as the nature of your relationship. For instance, she could consider you just a friend so it's very important how you behave around her.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Anonymous #1
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Ever heard of a joke?
And if she just considers me as a friend...well I have no need for friends AT ALL. So forget her.
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Anonymous #1
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Scratch that part about me not needing friends that was pretty damn selfish.
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