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Offlinefireworks_godS
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The Blueprint For Change
    #8007174 - 02/10/08 11:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Everyone knows how much Obama talks about change, but I think that a lot of people wonder what ideas he actually stands for. You'll notice how he won't really talk about them too much during his campaign, and you'll also notice that he is on the track towards winning. I predicted the three state sweep that happened on Saturday, and the fact that he took a good win from Hillary in Maine is demonstrating just how powerful his campaign has become while Hillary's is ripping apart. Obama also seems to have more support from his party, with such prominent leaders as Tom Daschle supporting him and speaking to the rest of his party on Obama's behalf, to John Kerrey campaigning for him in Maine, etc.

Anyways, I thought I'd share with all of you The Blueprint For Change. It is a comprehensive presentation of what Obama feels the issues this country is facing are, his solutions that he will implement (with support of a Democratic-controlled Congress that feels a renewed sense of purpose from his leadership), and his record in supporting these solutions.

I thought I'd share here some of the ones that I found very interesting. If I cannot have someone like Ron Paul who will dramatically restrain and reduce the federal government, having someone who is capable of making the government something that respects the rights of humans, makes the government more transparent, wise, efficent, and more open to participation by the people (through the Internet), and acts in their interests, and not the interests of securing profits for corporations, is just fine by me, and probably even better than no government at all. :wink:



Quote:


THE PROBLEM


Lobbyists Write National Policies

For example, Vice President Dick Cheney’s Energy Task Force of oil and gas lobbyists met secretly to develop national energy policy.


Secrecy Dominates Government Actions

The Bush administration has ignored public disclosure rules and has invoked a legal tool known as the ‘state secrets’ privilege more than any other previous administration to get cases thrown out of civil court.


Wasteful Spending is Out of Control

The current administration has abused its power by handing out contracts without competition to its politically connected friends and supporters. These abuses cost taxpayers billions of dollars each year.


BARACK OBAMA’s Plan


Shine Light on Washington Lobbying

Centralize Ethics and Lobbying Information for Voters: Obama will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records, and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.


Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.


Support Campaign Finance Reform: Obama supports public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests. Obama introduced public financing legislation in the Illinois State Senate, and is the only 2008 candidate to have sponsored Senator Russ Feingold’s (D-WI) tough bill to reform the presidential public financing system.


Shine the Light on Federal Contracts, Tax Breaks and Earmarks
Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a “contracts and influence” database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.


Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Barack Obama will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients – or tax earmarks – are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.


End Abuse of No-Bid Contracts: Barack Obama will end abuse of no-bid contracts by requiring that nearly all contract orders over $25,000 be competitively awarded.


Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.


Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama’s Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.


Bring Americans Back into their Government


Hold 21st Century Fireside Chats: Obama will bring democracy and policy directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national broadband townhall meetings to discuss issues before their agencies.


Make White House Communications Public: Obama will amend executive orders to ensure that communications about regulatory policymaking between persons outside government and all White House staff are disclosed to the public.


Conduct Regulatory Agency Business in Public: Obama will require his appointees who lead the executive branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can watch these debates in person or on the Internet.


Release Presidential Records: Obama will nullify the Bush attempts to make the timely release of presidential records more difficult.


Free the Executive Branch from Special Interest Influence


Close the Revolving Door on Former and Future Employers: No political appointees in an Obama administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration.


Free Career Officials from the Influence of Politics: Obama will issue an executive order asking all new hires at the agencies to sign a form affirming that no political appointee offered them the job solely on the basis of political affiliation or contribution.


Reform the Political Appointee Process: FEMA Director Michael Brown was not qualified to head the agency, and the result was a disaster for the people of the Gulf Coast. But in an Obama administration, every official will have to rise to the standard of proven excellence in the agency’s mission.


OBAMA’S RECORD


Federal Ethics Reform


Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the “gold standard” for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists’ bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law. The Washington Post wrote in an editorial, “The final package is the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet.”


Google for Government


Americans have the right to know how their tax dollars are spent, but that information has been hidden from public view for too long. That’s why Barack Obama and Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) passed a law to create a Google-like search engine to allow regular people to track federal grants, contracts, earmarks, and loans online. The Chicago Sun-Times wrote, “It would enable the public to see where federal money goes and how it is spent. It’s a brilliant idea.”


Illinois Reform


In 1998, Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned most gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.


A High Standard


Unlike other candidates Obama’s campaign refuses to accept contributions from Washington lobbyists and political action committees.




How does that sound for an ethical government? :lol: Obama's the man. :thumbup:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8007276 - 02/11/08 12:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Strengthening The Economy


Taxes

Obama will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.

Trade

Obama believes that trade with foreign nations should strengthen the American economy and create more American jobs. He will stand firm against agreements that undermine our economic security.

Technology

Obama will encourage the deployment of the most modern communications infrastructure to reduce the costs of health care, help solve our energy crisis, create new jobs, and fuel our economic growth.

Labor

Obama will strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions. He will fight for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act. Obama will ensure that his labor appointees support workers’ rights and will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers. Obama will also increase the minimum wage and index it to inflation to ensure it rises every year.

Home Ownership

Obama will crack down on fraudulent brokers and lenders. He will also make sure homebuyers have honest and complete information about their mortgage options, and he will give a tax credit to all middle-class homeowners.

Bankruptcy Reform

Obama will reform our bankruptcy laws to protect working people, ban executive bonuses for bankrupt companies, and require disclosure of all pension investments.

Credit Cards

Obama will establish a five-star rating system so that every consumer knows the risk involved in every credit card. He also will establish a Credit Card Bill of Rights to stop credit card companies from exploiting consumers
with unfair practices.

Work-Family

Obama will double funding for after-school programs, expand the Family Medical Leave Act, provide low-income families with a refundable tax credit to help with their child-care expenses, and encourage flexible work schedules.


THE PROBLEM

Wages are Stagnant as Prices Rise

While wages remain flat, the costs of basic necessities are increasing. The cost of in-state college tuition has grown 35 percent over the past five years. Health care costs have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years. And the personal savings rate is now the lowest it’s been since the Great Depression.

Tax Cuts for Wealthy Instead of Middle Class

The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans. At the same time, this administration has refused to tackle health care, education and housing in a manner that benefits the middle class.



BARACK OBAMA’s Plan


Provide Middle Class Americans Tax Relief


Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The “Making Work Pay” tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.


Trade


Fight for Fair Trade: Obama will fight for a trade policy that opens up foreign markets to support good American jobs. He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama will also pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports.

Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama believes that NAFTA and its potential were oversold to the American people. Obama will work with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American workers.

Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama would update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs.


Technology, Innovation and Creating Jobs


Support Job Creation: Barack Obama believes we need to double federal funding for basic research and make the research and development tax credit permanent to help create high-paying, secure jobs. Obama will also make long-term investments in education, training, and workforce development so that Americans can leverage our strengths – our ingenuity and entrepreneurialism – to create new high-wage jobs and prosper
in a world economy.

Invest in U.S. Manufacturing: The Obama comprehensive energy independence and climate change plan will invest in America’s highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world. Obama will also provide assistance to the domestic auto industry to ensure that new fuel-efficient vehicles are built by American workers.

Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies: The Obama plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs and direct these programs to incorporate green technologies training,
such as advanced manufacturing and weatherization training, into their efforts to help Americans find and retain stable, high-paying jobs. Obama will also create an energy-focused youth jobs program to invest in disconnected and disadvantaged youth.

Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs: The Obama plan will create new federal policies, and expand existing ones, that have been proven to create new American jobs. Obama will create a federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) that will require 25 percent of American electricity be derived from renewable sources by 2025, which has the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs on its own. Obama will also extend the Production Tax Credit, a credit used successfully by American farmers and investors to increase renewable energy production and create new local jobs.

Deploy Next-Generation Broadband: Obama believes we can get broadband to every community in America through a combination of reform of the Universal Service Fund, better use of the nation’s wireless spectrum, promotion of next-generation facilities, technologies and applications, and new tax and loan incentives.

Protect the Openness of the Internet: Obama supports the basic principle that network providers should not be allowed to charge fees to privilege the content or applications of some web sites and Internet applications over others. This principle will ensure that the new competitors, especially small or nonprofit speakers, have the same opportunity as big companies to innovate and reach large audiences.

Invest in Rural Areas: Obama will invest in rural small businesses and fight to expand high-speed Internet access. He will improve rural schools and attract more doctors to rural areas.


Labor


Ensure Freedom to Unionize: Obama believes that workers should have the freedom to choose whether to join a union without harassment or intimidation from their employers. Obama cosponsored and is strong advocate for the Employee Free Choice Act, a bipartisan effort to assure that workers can exercise their right to organize. He will continue to fight for EFCA’s passage and sign it into law.

Fight Attacks on Workers’ Right to Organize: Obama has fought the Bush National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) efforts to strip workers of their right to organize. He is a cosponsor of legislation to overturn the NLRB’s “Kentucky River” decisions classifying hundreds of thousands of nurses, construction, and professional workers as “supervisors” who are not protected by federal labor laws.

Protect Striking Workers: Obama supports the right of workers to bargain collectively and strike if necessary. He will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers, so workers can stand up for themselves without worrying about losing their livelihoods.

Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.


Protect Homeownership and Crack Down on Mortgage Fraud


Create a Universal Mortgage Credit: Obama will create a 10 percent universal mortgage credit to provide
tax relief to homeowners who do not itemize. This credit will provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year.

Ensure More Accountability in the Subprime Mortgage Industry: Obama has been closely monitoring the subprime mortgage situation for years, and introduced comprehensive legislation over a year ago to fight mortgage fraud and protect consumers against abusive lending practices. Obama’s STOP FRAUD Act provides the first federal definition of mortgage fraud, increases funding for federal and state law enforcement programs, creates new criminal penalties for mortgage professionals found guilty of fraud, and requires industry insiders to report suspicious activity.

Mandate Accurate Loan Disclosure: Obama will create a Homeowner Obligation Made Explicit (HOME) score, which will provide potential borrowers with a simplified, standardized borrower metric (similar to APR) for home mortgages. The HOME score will allow individuals to easily compare various mortgage products and understand the full cost of the loan.

Create Fund to Help Homeowners Avoid Foreclosures: Obama will create a fund to help people refinance their mortgages and provide comprehensive support to innocent homeowners. The fund will be partially paid for by Obama’s increased penalties on lenders who act irresponsibly and commit fraud.

Close Bankruptcy Loophole for Mortgage Companies: Obama will work to eliminate the provision that prevents bankruptcy courts from modifying an individual’s mortgage payments. Obama believes that the subprime mortgage industry, which has engaged in dangerous and sometimes unscrupulous business practices, should not be shielded by outdated federal law.


Address Predatory Credit Card Practices and Reform Bankruptcy Laws


Create a Credit Card Rating System to Improve Disclosure: Obama will create a credit card rating system, modeled on five-star systems used for other consumer products, to provide consumers an easily identifiable ranking of credit cards, based on the card’s features. Credit card companies will be required to display the rating on all application and contract materials, enabling consumers to quickly understand all of the major provisions of a credit card without having to rely exclusively on fine print in lengthy documents.

Establish a Credit Card Bill of Rights to Protect Consumers: Obama will create a Credit Card Bill of Rights to protect consumers. The Obama plan will:
• Ban Unilateral Changes
• Apply Interest Rate Increases Only to Future Debt
• Prohibit Interest on Fees
• Prohibit “Universal Defaults”
• Require Prompt and Fair Crediting of Cardholder Payments

Cap Outlandish Interest Rates on Payday Loans and Improve Disclosure: Obama supports extending a 36 percent interest cap to all Americans. Obama will require lenders to provide clear and simplified information about loan fees, payments and penalties, and he’ll require them to provide this information during the application process.


Encourage Responsible Lending Institutions to Make Small Consumer

Loans: Obama will encourage
banks, credit unions and Community Development Financial Institutions to provide affordable short-term and small-dollar loans and to drive unscrupulous lenders out of business.

Reform Bankruptcy Laws to Protect Families Facing a Medical Crisis: Obama will create an exemption in bankruptcy law for individuals who can prove they filed for bankruptcy because of medical expenses. This exemption will create a process that forgives the debt and lets Americans get back on their feet.


Work/Family Balance


Expand the Family and Medical Leave Act: The FMLA covers only certain workers in businesses with 50 or more employees. Obama will expand it to cover businesses with 25 or more employees. He will also expand what’s covered under the FMLA, to include allowing workers to take leave for elder care needs; allowing parents up to 24 hours of leave each year to participate in their children’s academic activities; and to expand FMLA to cover leave for employees to address domestic violence.

Encourage States to Adopt Paid Leave: As president, Obama will initiate a strategy to encourage all 50 states to adopt paid-leave systems. Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers.

Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve a million more children. Obama will include measures to maximize performance and effectiveness across grantees nationwide.

Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit: The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit provides too little relief to families that struggle to afford child care expenses. Obama will reform the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit for their child care expenses.

Protect Against Caregiver Discrimination: Workers with family obligations often are discriminated against in the workplace. Obama will enforce the recently-enacted Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
guidelines on caregiver discrimination.

Expand Flexible Work Arrangements: Obama will create a program to inform businesses about the benefits of flexible work schedules; help businesses create flexible work opportunities; and increase federal incentives for telecommuting. Obama will also make the federal government a model employer in terms of adopting flexible work schedules and permitting employees to request flexible arrangements.



OBAMA’S RECORD


Housing: In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.

Predatory Lending: In the Illinois State Senate, Obama called attention to predatory lending issues. Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also urged the state to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.

American Jobs: Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.




--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8007679 - 02/11/08 05:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, you are one inconsistent feller. For months you were extolling the virtues of Ron Paul and his approach to government. Now you jump on the bandwagon of the candidate remaining in the race who is as far as it is possible to get from what Ron Paul stands for.

To coin a phrase.... what the fuck?





Phred


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8007707 - 02/11/08 05:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Its simple. America isn't ready for the direction Ron Paul would take the country in. If it was, then he would have stood more of a chance than he did. An older friend from work suggested I got on Obama's website and check out some of the ideas he stands for, which he knew I would be intrigued by, from our discussions about Ron Paul and what was interesting about him.

Its clear that the country needs this because this is the direction it seems to be going in. When I realized that my choices were either McCain, Hillary, or Obama, I became interested in finding out more about him, and found his platform. If I can't have a President who will restrain and restrict the government from imposing upon individual sovereignty, I at least want to have one that will use the government wisely to effect positive growth and change in the direction the country is headed. Not all change happens overnight and you have to find the path that will lead to change manifesting when the time is right for it to do so.

I would have no reservations about providing an elaborate perspective from myself as to exactly why an Obama presidency appeals to me, but I'll hold that for now because I have other matters to attend to, like creating a huge fucking salad to munch on. :hehehe:

I'll tell you what I really liked, though. His ethics platform is inspirational, ideal. He also stands for instituting the requirement that all new spending includes with it precisely where the money will come from and where it will be cut from. The idea that the public could comment for five days on a bill on the White House's website is very innovative. Giving the public an easy means to track where all of the money is going in their government seems far ahead in time, but he's offering it now.

I really enjoy the fact that he sees the means of creating economic and social change is through offering incentives. Most of his proposals have been for tax credits, and not pay-outs, so its not subsidization. His stance on education is probably the single most important aspect of his platform, in my opinion, which is to create huge incentive for investment in education, from drastically cutting taxes for teachers, to creating more incentive for them to take jobs in rural areas... His plans for easy access for all to high speed Internet, as well as seeking to protect the openness of the Internet, is crucial. If we actually invested in education, then perhaps there wouldn't be as many morons, right? :lol:

He's truly an innovator, and he has a sense of purpose and direction for the future that he is giving this country who has had none since the collapse of the Soviet Union. He's standing for being an international leader in energy. His energy platform, the ways he is seeking massive, fast progress in alternative energy and the effects getting us off of oil will have for us, its brilliant.

At least its having a direction that isn't securing greater corporate profits, or perpetual war agansit an ideaology. At least it is rational, reasonable application of government for the better of society as a whole; not only for this country, but for the entire planet. :earth:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8007708 - 02/11/08 05:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Also, Ron Paul's ideas are very similar to that of Obama's, the only point at which they would disagree is whether or not the federal government has the right to exist in the first place in such a form. As is quite clear, the federal government is still needed by the American people, as they aren't yet capable of governing themselves through reason, so it might as well be in such a way that it will help bring the day that people will be ready to be truly free.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8007717 - 02/11/08 06:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You can dress a dancing bear in a frilly skirt and call it a ballerina, but that doesn't make it any less a bear.

Obama is the closest thing to a Commie currently serving in the US Senate. Note that I do not say he is a Communist, just that his voting record more closely matches how a Commie would vote than the voting record of any other senator, including freaking Ted Kennedy, fa cryin out loud! It ain't an easy thing to out-pinko Ted freaking Kennedy, yet Obama manages it.

As for his campaign promises, it's easy enough to say you'll do this or that and that you won't do that or this. But one's voting record is more than just a promise, one's voting record is evidence. And the evidence shows that given the opportunity, Obama will have America to the left of Sweden in no time flat.




Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8007719 - 02/11/08 06:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Also, Ron Paul's ideas are very similar to that of Obama's...




Ron Paul's ideas (with the exception of Paul's views on the Iraq war) are as opposite to Obama's as it is possible to be. Paul takes the standard Libertarian view that less government is always preferrable. Obama echoes Hillary and every other Libbie in the world in believing that all good things come from government.

Do you not remember Paul's views on socialized medicine, dude?




Phred


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8008035 - 02/11/08 09:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Sweden dosn't have a plummeting currency or overextended military forces, and they even legalized drugs for a while back in the 60's (or was it 70's) Sweden? I'll take it.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: xFrockx]
    #8008056 - 02/11/08 09:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You might want to talk to some actual Swedes about their drug laws. Penalties are pretty harsh.

Then there's the joy of seeing two out of every three dollars you make taken from you in taxes, and paying thirteen bucks for a shot of vodka in the local pub....




Phred


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InvisibleArp
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8008104 - 02/11/08 10:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

One of my Swedish friends have had his home raided a few times (mostly because of criminal acquaintances). They confiscated his weed plants, but didn't fine him or anything.

I think it's pretty relaxed if you do it low-scale i guess. If you smuggle bricks of cocaine you can get up to 14 years in prison. But they probably let you leave before finishing your sentence anyways.

Besides that info im not so sure. But it's slowly changing, probably due to high immigration. Neo-liberals all over feeding on demoralized citizens.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Arp]
    #8008323 - 02/11/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Sweden has some of the harshest drug laws in the world. It's one of the very few countries in the world where it is a crime to use marijuana. In most other countries the crime is "possession" or "trafficing".

But we're getting pretty far afield from the topic of the thread -- Obama's pinko credentials.





Phred


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InvisibleArp
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8008643 - 02/11/08 12:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

there are all kinds of laws, but it's how they are put to use that counts.

you're right about high taxes, but there are ever so many tax-returns for the average worker (and higher income groups).

:smile:


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Invisiblemoeshroom
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8009498 - 02/11/08 04:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
But we're getting pretty far afield from the topic of the thread -- Obama's pinko credentials.
Phred




My browser says the topic of the thread is "The Blueprint for Change."

Obama is a liberal. You don't like liberals. You call him a communist. Why don't you address the elements of Blueprints for Change that you have problems with, and try to persuade us how the specific Blueprints will be destructive to America?


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: moeshroom]
    #8009549 - 02/11/08 04:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What part of

"As for his campaign promises, it's easy enough to say you'll do this or that and that you won't do that or this. But one's voting record is more than just a promise, one's voting record is evidence. And the evidence shows that given the opportunity, Obama will have America to the left of Sweden in no time flat."

did I fail to make clear?





Phred


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8009896 - 02/11/08 06:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Which of Obama's promises are "too left," and how would these policies leave America worse off?


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: moeshroom]
    #8009932 - 02/11/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

His plan to socialize medicine in the US. To be fair to Obama, Hillary's plan to socialize medicine in the US is no better.



Phred


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8010177 - 02/11/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Are you sure you know which Obama you are taking about? Neither democratic candidate wants the federal government to take over health care, regardless of whatever right-wing nutjob you got that idea from.


Edited by xFrockx (02/11/08 07:01 PM)


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: xFrockx]
    #8010487 - 02/11/08 07:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Neither democratic candidate wants the federal government to take over health care, regardless of whatever right-wing nutjob you got that idea from.




No? Then where does the "free" health care come from, pray tell? And if he's so sure his health care plane is so wonderful, how come it isn't even mentioned in his blueprint? What is he trying to hide?




Phred


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8010970 - 02/11/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ahh, but it is mentioned in the Blueprint, pretty predominantly in fact, right after ethics at the top.

Quote:


Barack Obama’s Plan for a Healthy America


“We now face an opportunity – and an obligation – to turn the page on the failed politics of yesterday’s health care debates.... My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don’t have health insurance, you will have it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness.”


At a Glance


Universal Coverage

Obama will sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of his first term in office. His plan will provide affordable, quality health care coverage for every American.

Reduce Health Care Costs

Obama’s plan will bring down the cost of health care and reduce a typical family’s premiums by as much as $2,500 per year.


THE PROBLEM


Millions Of Americans are Uninsured or Underinsured because of Rising Medical Costs

47 million Americans – including nearly 9 million children – lack health insurance with no signs of this trend slowing down.

Health Care Costs are Skyrocketing

Health insurance premiums have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years.

Too Little is Spent on Prevention and Public Health

The nation faces epidemics of obesity and chronic diseases as well as new threats of pandemic flu and bioterrorism.
Yet despite all of this less than 4 cents of every health care dollar is spent on prevention and public health.


BARACK OBAMA’s Plan


Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All


(1) Obama’s Plan to Cover Uninsured
Obama will make available a new national health plan so all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, can buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress.

The Obama Plan will have the Following Features:

• Guaranteed Eligibility: No American will be turned away FROM ANY INSURANCE PLAN because of illness or pre-existing conditions.

• Comprehensive Benefits: The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.

• Affordable Premiums, Co-Pays and Deductibles.

• Subsidies: Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.

• Simplified Paperwork and Reined in Health Costs.

• Easy Enrollment: The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.

• Portability and Choice: Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.

• Quality and Efficiency: Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.


(2) National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating
insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers
would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend on how healthy you are. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.


(3) Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.


(4) Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage. Obama will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage, including allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents’ plans.


(5) Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve as a critical safety net.


(6) Flexibility for State Plans: Due to federal inaction, some states have taken the lead in health care reform. The Obama plan builds on these efforts and does not replace what states are doing. States can continue to experiment, provided they meet the minimum standards of the national plan.


Lower Costs by Modernizing the U.S. Health Care System


(1) Reducing Costs of Catastrophic Illnesses for Employers and Their Employees. Catastrophic health expenditures account for a high percentage of medical expenses for private insurers. The Obama plan would reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers’ premiums.


(2) Lowering Costs by Ensuring Patients Receive and Providers Deliver Quality Care:

Helping Patients.

Support Disease Management Programs: Seventy five percent of total health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. Obama will require that providers that participate in the new public plan, Medicare or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) utilize proven disease management programs. This will improve quality of care, give doctors better information and lower costs.

Coordinate and Integrate Care: Over 133 million Americans have at least one chronic disease and these chronic conditions cost a staggering $1.7 trillion yearly. Obama will improve coordination and integration of care of those with chronic conditions by making sure programs are fully implemented and encouraging team care.

Require Full Transparency about Quality and Costs: Obama will require hospitals and providers to collect and publicly report measures of health care costs and quality, including data on preventable medical errors, nurse staffing ratios, hospital-acquired infections, and disparities in care. Health plans will also be required to disclose the percentage of premiums that go to patient care as opposed to administrative costs.

Ensuring Providers Deliver Quality Care:

Promote Patient Safety. Obama will require providers to report preventable medical errors and support
hospital and physician practice improvement to prevent future occurrences.

Align Incentives for Excellence: Both public and private insurers tend to pay providers based on the volume of services provided, rather than the quality or effectiveness of care. Providers who see patients
enrolled in the new public plan, the National Health Insurance Exchange, Medicare and FEHBP will be rewarded based on how effectively they treat patients.

Comparative Effectiveness Research: Obama will establish an independent institute to guide reviews
and research on comparative effectiveness, so that Americans and their doctors will have the accurate
and objective information they need to make the best decisions for their health and well-being.

Tackle Disparities in Health Care: Obama will tackle the root causes of health disparities by addressing
differences in access to health coverage and promoting prevention and public health, both of which play a major role in addressing disparities. He will also challenge the medical system to eliminate inequities in health care through quality measurement and reporting, implementation of effective interventions such as patient navigation programs, and making the health workforce more diverse.

Reform Medical Malpractice: Obama will strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance and will promote new models for addressing errors that improve patient safety, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship and reduce the need for malpractice suits.


(3) Lowering Costs Through Investment in Electronic Health Information Technology Systems: Most medical records are still stored on paper, which makes it hard to coordinate care, measure quality or reduce medical errors and which costs twice as much as electronic claims. Obama will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records, and will phase in requirements
for full implementation of health IT. Obama will ensure that patients’ privacy is protected.


(4) Lowering Costs by Increasing Competition in the Insurance and Drug Markets:

Increase Competition: The insurance business today is dominated by a small group of large companies
that has been gobbling up their rivals. There have been over 400 health care mergers in the last 10 years, and just two companies dominate a full third of the national market. These changes were supposed
to make the industry more efficient, but instead premiums have skyrocketed by over 87 percent.
Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. His plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. His new National Health Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.

Lower Prescription Drug Costs: The second-fastest growing type of health expenses is prescription
drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are selling the exact same drugs in Europe and Canada but charging Americans more than double the price. Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion. Finally, Obama will work to increase the use of generic drugs in Medicare, Medicaid, and FEHBP and prohibit big name drug companies from keeping generics out of markets.


OBAMA’S RECORD


Health Insurance: In 2003, Barack Obama sponsored and passed legislation that expanded health care coverage to 70,000 kids and 84,000 adults. In the U.S. Senate, Obama cosponsored the Healthy Kids Act of 2007 and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2007 to ensure that more American children have affordable health care coverage.

Women’s Health: Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.




I'm not so aware of health care as an issue, but there are several aspects of that that catch my eye, especially reform in the health insurance and drug industries that will bring more competition to lower costs. Most of it sounds like reform of the system in place already, which seems like a collusion between large corporations and government to create higher profit for some corporations and giving rich people a high-profit venture to invest in.

It seems there are issues that arise within society that never get addressed because it is more profitable to perpetuate a system in which the issues never get alleviated, and health care seems to be one of them. Its more profitable to sell grease and sugar than it is to sell fresh vegetables, of course. If we are going to have some sort of government policy on health care, I would at least prefer it to be in the interest of the people and not in the interest of the corporations and wealthy invididuals who stand to profit from it.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8011027 - 02/11/08 09:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Ron Paul's ideas (with the exception of Paul's views on the Iraq war) are as opposite to Obama's as it is possible to be. Paul takes the standard Libertarian view that less government is always preferrable. Obama echoes Hillary and every other Libbie in the world in believing that all good things come from government.

Do you not remember Paul's views on socialized medicine, dude?





I already expressed that what they would disagree on is whether or not the government should exist in the first place, in a way that Obama would use it to effect change, but stated that they do agree on a lot of the issues.

For example, Obama's policy stands agansit some of our trade agreements, like NAFTA, stating that our trade agreements should benefit the American worker, but that we should be involved in free trade. His foreign policy is similar to Ron Paul's, especially regarding diplomacy and that we should be talking with these nations. Obama's agansit any kind of long-term presence in Iraq, and is probably just less hesitant to leave than Ron Paul is, due to the collapse that might occur if we do it too quickly (which is a reasonable concern held by a lot of people).

They agree on transparency of government, and they agree a lot on the policy of giving incentives for change to occur. Obama proposes targeted tax breaks in his plans instead of subsidies, and I think they are in agreement on economic and spending issues, especially regarding the debt, borrowing money, and not introducing new spending unless it is clearly specified what will be cut.

I think the real difference is that Obama would use the federal government to benefit the American people, whereas Ron Paul wouldn't use the federal government, in the benefit of the American people. Clearly, America is not ready for Ron Paul's approach, but they are ready for Obama to reform the current system into one more favorable for the people and the future.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8011053 - 02/11/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
What part of

"As for his campaign promises, it's easy enough to say you'll do this or that and that you won't do that or this. But one's voting record is more than just a promise, one's voting record is evidence. And the evidence shows that given the opportunity, Obama will have America to the left of Sweden in no time flat."

did I fail to make clear?




It sounds like America wants Obama to lead us in this direction, although it certainly won't be such an extreme transition as your propose. You haven't elaborated in the slightest as to why the direction Obama would take this country is in any way undesireable. Would you care to do so?

Also, with his Blueprint for Change, there is included a view of his record on each issue, from his accomplishments in the Senate, in Illininois, and as a civil rights lawyer. There does seem to be good evidence that the change he proposes is the change he will seek.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8012420 - 02/12/08 08:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No one interested in discussing this? I can post more stances from the Blueprint, but its easier to just click it and read it, 'cause it takes time to format it in here...

I think the direction he is seeking to take the country in is pretty insightful and interesting. Not a bad course by the looks of it.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8012959 - 02/12/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No need to discuss it much. It's the standard pinko government-as-the-font-of-all-wonderfulness spiel, with the added benefit that he'll never have to deliver on most of it because most of it is beyond the power of the Executive branch of the US government to implement anyway.

With the exception of earmarks, just take whatever Ron Paul's position on an issue was, reverse it exactly 180 degrees and you arrive at Obama's position.




Phred


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8013383 - 02/12/08 01:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Its simple. America isn't ready for the direction Ron Paul would take the country in. If it was, then he would have stood more of a chance than he did. An older friend from work suggested I got on Obama's website and check out some of the ideas he stands for, which he knew I would be intrigued by, from our discussions about Ron Paul and what was interesting about him.




Bollocks. If america was not ready for Ron Paul, you're saying america is not ready for the constitution. If the american people were not ready for Ron Paul, why did so many people give him so much money? Enough to break records multiple times?

Obama, Clinton and McCain are all puppets. Not that your votes will count for anything. The world knows what America doesn't want to admit: Vote rigging is public, and endemic. There is no quick fix, even if Ron Paul had got in power, it wouldn't have been the end of tyranny.

It's a shame. I have always been keen on America standing for the things it's supposed to stand for in the constitution and bill of rights. But America is as corrupt as the rest of the world, and when it collapses, it's going to lash out and drag everyone else down with it.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8013789 - 02/12/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I bought Obama's book today called 'The Audacity of Hope - Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream'. Can't wait to get stuck into it man. This guy is gonna be an awesome president!

Obama 08


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: bradmassive]
    #8013933 - 02/12/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

He is not going to be President, thankfully.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8014106 - 02/12/08 05:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

have you placed any money on this yet?


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8014130 - 02/12/08 05:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No. I'm not sure I will here either. Some fuckers owe me for Ron Paul and they aren't chirping up. They know who they are. I think one is fireworks_god. When I get around to it I'm going to see if I can find the thread.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8014170 - 02/12/08 05:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #8014195 - 02/12/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks. It seems the Cow didn't stand up so it's just f_g.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8014390 - 02/12/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Visionary Tools said:
Quote:

Its simple. America isn't ready for the direction Ron Paul would take the country in. If it was, then he would have stood more of a chance than he did. An older friend from work suggested I got on Obama's website and check out some of the ideas he stands for, which he knew I would be intrigued by, from our discussions about Ron Paul and what was interesting about him.




Bollocks. If america was not ready for Ron Paul, you're saying america is not ready for the constitution. If the american people were not ready for Ron Paul, why did so many people give him so much money? Enough to break records multiple times?

Obama, Clinton and McCain are all puppets. Not that your votes will count for anything. The world knows what America doesn't want to admit: Vote rigging is public, and endemic. There is no quick fix, even if Ron Paul had got in power, it wouldn't have been the end of tyranny.

It's a shame. I have always been keen on America standing for the things it's supposed to stand for in the constitution and bill of rights. But America is as corrupt as the rest of the world, and when it collapses, it's going to lash out and drag everyone else down with it.




LOL


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Redstorm]
    #8015156 - 02/12/08 09:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, the collapse of an empire is a funny thing.

People starving and queueing up in breadlines is funny.

You wanna laugh out loud? Do that in the camps the government has made for you!

You want to laugh? Go to the churches where the priests will tell you to give up your guns and submit to the government, submit to vaccinations. Submit to tyranny.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8015442 - 02/12/08 10:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, you *are* crazy.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8015698 - 02/12/08 11:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Nonsense, you never confirmed that bet. I said I'd take it, but we never made it. The only person I made a bet with is willshire, and that bet is not over yet.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Phred]
    #8016070 - 02/13/08 12:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
No need to discuss it much. It's the standard pinko government-as-the-font-of-all-wonderfulness spiel




No, this is dishonest discussion. I've already called you on attempting to argue agansit Obama with the fallacy of some loaded label. Place something more substansial on the table agansit an Obama Presidency so we can actually know why you object to it, on an ideaological level. What do you have agansit who the guy is and his platform?

Quote:


, with the added benefit that he'll never have to deliver on most of it because most of it is beyond the power of the Executive branch of the US government to implement anyway.




In his time in the Senate and as a politican in Illinois, he's accomplished a lot of his tasks he's put forward, and I think it is probably pretty certain that both the Senate and the House will be controlled by the Democrats, who feel inspired by someone like Obama. I think the prominence of Republican candidates like McCain, Romney, and Huckabee demonstrate that a lot of Republicans are more than ready to cozy up to the Democrats. I think he'll be able to accomplish a lot of his goals.

Quote:


With the exception of earmarks, just take whatever Ron Paul's position on an issue was, reverse it exactly 180 degrees and you arrive at Obama's position.




No, I have already refuted this, referring to specific issues.


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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8016205 - 02/13/08 01:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Visionary Tools said:
Bollocks. If america was not ready for Ron Paul, you're saying america is not ready for the constitution. If the american people were not ready for Ron Paul, why did so many people give him so much money? Enough to break records multiple times?




Possibly 200,000 people gave Ron Paul donations, myself included. That is one Ron Paul supporter for over every million Americans. If America had been ready for Ron Paul, then he would be on the fast-track to the Republican nomination, but John McCain is. As it has been Americans choosing this course for these candidates, it seems pretty evident that, who they pick, is who they are ready for.

The Democrats receive like four times the amounts of votes that Republicans do in the primaries and caucuses. This pretty clearly shows how things will turn out.

Quote:


Obama, Clinton and McCain are all puppets.




Why, have you seen someone's hand up their ass? :smirk:

Quote:


Not that your votes will count for anything. The world knows what America doesn't want to admit: Vote rigging is public, and endemic. There is no quick fix, even if Ron Paul had got in power, it wouldn't have been the end of tyranny.




No, Americans actually come out and vote. I was working on a project once to buy voting records from South Carolina for calling for Ron Paul. These people actually exist, you can go call them up and ask them if you want. :smirk: 

Quote:

But America is as corrupt as the rest of the world, and when it collapses, it's going to lash out and drag everyone else down with it.




Corrupt? Obama's measures would lessen the incentive for corruption by making the government more transparent. Scroll up and read his stance on ethics.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8016244 - 02/13/08 02:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Nonsense, you never confirmed that bet. I said I'd take it, but we never made it. The only person I made a bet with is willshire, and that bet is not over yet.




Whats up with people trying to weasel their way out of bets on this site? You "made" the bet no matter which way you try to cut it, now it's time to be a man and pay up.




Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Oddly enough, not one of these people is willing to take up my offer of $100 for their $1 if Paul gets nominated.  Fucking blowholes if you ask me.




I'll bet you $10 that Ron Paul gets nominated for the presidency in the primary election. :smile:




Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I'm hoping that he honors my wager, but realizes that he should quickly close off the possibility of any new bets. :smirk: The bets will snowball at the pace of Ron Paul's campaign, and I don't want him to default on my bet because he owes all of you fuckers money too. :razz:




It sounds to me like you would have expected him to pay had Ron Paul got the nomination.

You remind me of this kid from years back in junior highschool who tried to weasel his way out of a bet with me because "we didn't shake on it". :lol:


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #8016278 - 02/13/08 02:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

matt said:
Whats up with people trying to weasel their way out of bets on this site? You "made" the bet no matter which way you try to cut it, now it's time to be a man and pay up.




Who knows if he was serious or not? There is no confirmation, and with a bet that he could stand to lose a thousand dollars, there is need for confirmation, or else he could certainly claim to have never seen my reply and didn't actually make the bet.

I made a similar bet with willshire and I acknowledge that bet. Why? Because it was confirmed. I'm not going to pay someone that could have been joking with a bet like that when they never step forward, and at least acknowledged then that the bet was made. I fully intend to fufill my bet with willshire when the nomination is actually made, but I have no interest in sending zappaisgod $10 because the bet was never made.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8016364 - 02/13/08 05:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Visionary Tools said:
Yeah, the collapse of an empire is a funny thing.

People starving and queueing up in breadlines is funny.

You wanna laugh out loud? Do that in the camps the government has made for you!

You want to laugh? Go to the churches where the priests will tell you to give up your guns and submit to the government, submit to vaccinations. Submit to tyranny.




:tinfoil: :crazy2: :crazy:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8016413 - 02/13/08 06:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Barack Obama’s Plan for a Healthy America

Millions Of Americans are Uninsured or Underinsured because of Rising Medical Costs





The reason costs are skyrocketing is because old diseased people are afraid of death and will do anything to stay alive at whatever cost. Dying people are living for years and no one can digest their bills. This is the problem of big spending in health care, and I didn't read anything about his plan to address that one.

I'm wary of Obama, as much so as the other 2 big candidates (Hillary, McCain). I really liked Ron Paul's money policy and idea for a much smaller government (which would fix our health care problem). Obama sounds like a sell out to me, and he's playing his cards right.

All the minorities at my work are voting for him without even knowing his policies. And anyway, his written policies on the internet, and what he actually does are two different things. I think I'll put my energy and thoughts into science and technology.

Where is Frank Zappa when you need him?

Frank Zappa '08 FTW


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (02/13/08 06:54 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8017360 - 02/13/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Nonsense, you never confirmed that bet. I said I'd take it, but we never made it. The only person I made a bet with is willshire, and that bet is not over yet.




I figured that's how it would go. Send a tenner to the Shroomery.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8021074 - 02/14/08 05:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I can't remember how much mine was for Willshire, but I'll definitely throw an extra $10 to the Shroomery when McCain gets the nomination, just since it is a close call on whether there was a bet. I swear to god, they had his picture HUGE all over Newsweek, and I think he'll sweep the nomination for the ugliest motherfucker alive contest.... hand those covers out to the Muslims to put the fear of Allah in them... :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: fireworks_god]
    #9683178 - 01/26/09 03:11 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Everyone knows how much Obama talks about change, but I think that a lot of people wonder what ideas he actually stands for. You'll notice how he won't really talk about them too much during his campaign, and you'll also notice that he is on the track towards winning. I predicted the three state sweep that happened on Saturday, and the fact that he took a good win from Hillary in Maine is demonstrating just how powerful his campaign has become while Hillary's is ripping apart. Obama also seems to have more support from his party, with such prominent leaders as Tom Daschle supporting him and speaking to the rest of his party on Obama's behalf, to John Kerrey campaigning for him in Maine, etc.

Anyways, I thought I'd share with all of you The Blueprint For Change. It is a comprehensive presentation of what Obama feels the issues this country is facing are, his solutions that he will implement (with support of a Democratic-controlled Congress that feels a renewed sense of purpose from his leadership), and his record in supporting these solutions.

I thought I'd share here some of the ones that I found very interesting. If I cannot have someone like Ron Paul who will dramatically restrain and reduce the federal government, having someone who is capable of making the government something that respects the rights of humans, makes the government more transparent, wise, efficent, and more open to participation by the people (through the Internet), and acts in their interests, and not the interests of securing profits for corporations, is just fine by me, and probably even better than no government at all. :wink:



Quote:


THE PROBLEM


Lobbyists Write National Policies

For example, Vice President Dick Cheney’s Energy Task Force of oil and gas lobbyists met secretly to develop national energy policy.


Secrecy Dominates Government Actions

The Bush administration has ignored public disclosure rules and has invoked a legal tool known as the ‘state secrets’ privilege more than any other previous administration to get cases thrown out of civil court.


Wasteful Spending is Out of Control

The current administration has abused its power by handing out contracts without competition to its politically connected friends and supporters. These abuses cost taxpayers billions of dollars each year.


BARACK OBAMA’s Plan


Shine Light on Washington Lobbying

Centralize Ethics and Lobbying Information for Voters: Obama will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records, and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.


Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.


Support Campaign Finance Reform: Obama supports public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests. Obama introduced public financing legislation in the Illinois State Senate, and is the only 2008 candidate to have sponsored Senator Russ Feingold’s (D-WI) tough bill to reform the presidential public financing system.


Shine the Light on Federal Contracts, Tax Breaks and Earmarks
Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a “contracts and influence” database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.


Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Barack Obama will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients – or tax earmarks – are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.


End Abuse of No-Bid Contracts: Barack Obama will end abuse of no-bid contracts by requiring that nearly all contract orders over $25,000 be competitively awarded.


Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.


Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama’s Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.


Bring Americans Back into their Government


Hold 21st Century Fireside Chats: Obama will bring democracy and policy directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national broadband townhall meetings to discuss issues before their agencies.


Make White House Communications Public: Obama will amend executive orders to ensure that communications about regulatory policymaking between persons outside government and all White House staff are disclosed to the public.


Conduct Regulatory Agency Business in Public: Obama will require his appointees who lead the executive branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can watch these debates in person or on the Internet.


Release Presidential Records: Obama will nullify the Bush attempts to make the timely release of presidential records more difficult.


Free the Executive Branch from Special Interest Influence


Close the Revolving Door on Former and Future Employers: No political appointees in an Obama administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration.


Free Career Officials from the Influence of Politics: Obama will issue an executive order asking all new hires at the agencies to sign a form affirming that no political appointee offered them the job solely on the basis of political affiliation or contribution.


Reform the Political Appointee Process: FEMA Director Michael Brown was not qualified to head the agency, and the result was a disaster for the people of the Gulf Coast. But in an Obama administration, every official will have to rise to the standard of proven excellence in the agency’s mission.


OBAMA’S RECORD


Federal Ethics Reform


Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the “gold standard” for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists’ bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law. The Washington Post wrote in an editorial, “The final package is the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet.”


Google for Government


Americans have the right to know how their tax dollars are spent, but that information has been hidden from public view for too long. That’s why Barack Obama and Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) passed a law to create a Google-like search engine to allow regular people to track federal grants, contracts, earmarks, and loans online. The Chicago Sun-Times wrote, “It would enable the public to see where federal money goes and how it is spent. It’s a brilliant idea.”


Illinois Reform


In 1998, Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned most gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.


A High Standard


Unlike other candidates Obama’s campaign refuses to accept contributions from Washington lobbyists and political action committees.




How does that sound for an ethical government? :lol: Obama's the man. :thumbup:




:rofl2:

Obama has already broken that MAJOR campaign promise just few days into his presidency! (he had to waive his own rules not to hire any lobbyists for his administration.)




Obama waives lobbying rules for Lynn


The decision of the Administration to impose an additional set of requirements, and then waive them for this nominee, does not change the standards to which we hold all nominees," Levin said.


Lynn was a registered lobbyist until early 2008 and his nomination raised some eyebrows even before the executive order on ethics that Obama issued Wednesday, because it contradicted the new president’s pledge not to let lobbyists in his administration.


According to Raytheon’s lobbying disclosure forms, Lynn was part of a team that lobbied on a wide range of defense-related issues, including force protection, electronics, intelligence and missile defense.


It would be difficult for Lynn, if he is confirmed, to avoid involvement in issues regarding his former company and the programs in which it is participating because Raytheon is one of the largest defense contractors, with contracts in many major weapons programs. $$$$$$$$$


http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/groups-urge-senate-to-reject-lynn-2009-01-23.html


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9684589 - 01/26/09 06:58 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Wow, that's definitely not good. Any Obama supporters have a response to this?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Redstorm]
    #9685347 - 01/26/09 08:59 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

The Obama can do no wrong


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Redstorm]
    #9685475 - 01/26/09 09:19 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

It sounds like a bad move.  I don't understand it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Redstorm]
    #9685845 - 01/26/09 10:04 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Wow, that's definitely not good. Any Obama supporters have a response to this?




Not really a supporter, but I have a response:



MEET THE NEW BOSS, SAME AS THE OLD BOSS! 

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: TGRR]
    #9685860 - 01/26/09 10:05 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

thats fucking creepy!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9685871 - 01/26/09 10:07 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
thats fucking creepy!




You'll get used to it.  Oh, yes.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Redstorm]
    #9687777 - 01/27/09 10:11 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Wow, that's definitely not good. Any Obama supporters have a response to this?




Obviously I am in disagreement with this.  If this guy had so much contact with Raytheon that he is going to have to recuse himself from any decisions involving that company, which does something like 15% of the business with the US military, I don't even see how he can effectively do his job.  I would not be surprised to see this appointment withdrawn if it doesn't look like he'll be confirmed.

But you have to wonder as to the train of thought that made B-Rock think this guy was a good choice in the first place; I certainly don't understand it.

However, as I've said here many times, politics is compromise.  While I am a Democrat, and will remain so, I don't toe the party line on many issues.  I certainly will not defend everything our new President does, nor endorse all of his policies.  I'm not sold on either the efficacy or the necessity of this trillion-dollar bailout, or this continuing to rain bombs down upon civilians in Afghanistan, although in the end I think that war needs to be fought.

So no, I won't stick up for everything Barack does.  But I do believe he will do a good job, and in the end, we agree on more than we disagree on.  I unequivocally support his moves towards closing Gitmo and increasing transparency in the government, and I think his XO from yesterday allowing individual states to set their own pollution standards is a great first step in creating greater energy independence and reducing wastefulness.

I think people should realize that he's never been President before, he's been on the job less than a week, and how many of us have not stumbled in our first few days at a new job?  I think people should let him grow into the office for a few months before they pronounce everything he has done, will do, or is in the process of doing an absolute failure.  Despite the breathless shrieking of the media our entire American way of life is not going to come crashing to the ground in the next few months.

He has my patience.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9687820 - 01/27/09 10:25 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

This is a great link that shows the Obama administration's track record on campaign promises. I'll definitely be checking it from time to time.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9687835 - 01/27/09 10:29 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Good Post Madtown :thumbup:

But ya know i wont give Obama any "patience":grin:

Peace  :peace:

Lonestar


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
Re: The Blueprint For Change [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9694993 - 01/28/09 03:50 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
:rofl2:

Obama has already broken that MAJOR campaign promise just few days into his presidency! (he had to waive his own rules not to hire any lobbyists for his administration.)




Obama waives lobbying rules for Lynn


The decision of the Administration to impose an additional set of requirements, and then waive them for this nominee, does not change the standards to which we hold all nominees," Levin said.


Lynn was a registered lobbyist until early 2008 and his nomination raised some eyebrows even before the executive order on ethics that Obama issued Wednesday, because it contradicted the new president’s pledge not to let lobbyists in his administration.


According to Raytheon’s lobbying disclosure forms, Lynn was part of a team that lobbied on a wide range of defense-related issues, including force protection, electronics, intelligence and missile defense.


It would be difficult for Lynn, if he is confirmed, to avoid involvement in issues regarding his former company and the programs in which it is participating because Raytheon is one of the largest defense contractors, with contracts in many major weapons programs. $$$$$$$$$


http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/groups-urge-senate-to-reject-lynn-2009-01-23.html




:rofl:

He's off to quite the start isn't he? :ass2mouth:





--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (01/28/09 03:59 PM)


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