Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Boomr Bag   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineMagicius
Stranger


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 62
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply?
    #8005041 - 02/10/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Im just wondering, how much peat exists in nature.
I mean what if, in like 20 years, like fossil fuel, there is no more peat moss left in the world?
WTF will we do then -

can peat in the 50 50 casing tek be substituted with coco coir with similar results, I know peat has got some PH action goin for it.

what gives with the peat fetish - i dont like it, i just dont trust it. i dont know why. Coco coir seems more innocent a kind of casing ingredient, its just more simple. Peat moss has issues...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: Magicius]
    #8005067 - 02/10/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I use to use peat moss abit earlier on in this hobby and didn't have to much success with it, poor pin sets were produced from a P.H higher then recommended.

You can substitute the peat moss and make a verm/coir casing, I'd use roughly 75/25 (easy ratios) verm/coir , coir has a tendency to overlay if the casing is left to run on it for to long and since coir is fibrous when the mycelium uses up the moisture or its lost to humidity the coir looses water and mats together quicker then verm which is bulkier and doesn't shrink much.

I tried to explain that to the best of my ability man lol... Anyways, a rule of thumb is to have a nice light mixture of coir in with your vermiculite for optimum run times, I can get a fair sized mono tub done in three days using the ring method look it up and try it out. :smile:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBikerfool
Your Local Edgelord
Male


Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 1,577
Last seen: 5 months, 13 days
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: HybridprX]
    #8005115 - 02/10/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I feel a bit guilty about using peat also, it takes hundreads of years to form, and is mined from ecologically important areas.

I don't know of any substitutes except for what was suggested above.

I wouldn't worry though if you use a small bag once in a while.
A lot of gardeners use heaps of the stuff.

Thanks for bringing up this issue!


--------------------
Just an angsty teen contributing to the pubs decline with contentless posts.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: HybridprX]
    #8005171 - 02/10/08 03:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I work at a tree nursery where this issue comes up and I was wondering the same thing. As I looked into it peat recently I found it is basically from wetlands so it's duck and marsh inhabitants who are paying the ecological price for it. I don't think it's particularly relevant for MC because we use so little of it, but in industry palates full of compressed peat bales are gone through in a day of sowing. Problem is as I've read that coir needs a substantial amount of nitrogen. So unless Industrial Livestock Operations start making compost there is no way (that I've read) to get the coir or soil well enriched enough for these means high volume commercial use.

Frankly though Mono-culture is not natural, good in your controlled mush environment, but when it comes to real life habitats mono-culture blows. A couple years down the line these trees, the ones that could survive as saplings in a clearcut environment, will be a giant target for some niche pest. So what's the point of replanting anyway? My work is wasted it's so pointless I hope the trees I prepare are dumped in some ditch and buried over by tree planters so they can say they get more money. It's the only good thing that could come out of the whole thing.

I read a report that said chlorophyll was as low as 25% (of that when peat was used) in some species using coir but I don't think that it had anything in it to enhance the nitrogen content. This is why I couldn't find some brilliant solution to tell my boss to convert to coir. I may be an environmentalist but I don't have time to do homework they should be doing


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKnots_Landing
You're a towel!
Male


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 13
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: Magicius]
    #8005700 - 02/10/08 05:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You dont use peat. You use sphagnum peat moss. very different.

Regarding supply...
"Can the supply of peat moss be completely depleted?

No. The bogs that are being harvested will be restored to functioning wetlands. Members of the CSPMA adhere to strict guidelines in the Preservation and Reclamation Policy (for example, leaving one meter of peat moss when harvesting is completed). In addition, there are millions of acres of bogs in national parks and other preserves that can never be harvested."

From www.peatmoss.com


--------------------
Local Feed Stores http://www.polocenter.com/health/feedus.htm


Edited by Knots_Landing (02/10/08 06:04 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletahoe
Noob Slayer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: Magicius]
    #8005878 - 02/10/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Magicius said:
Im just wondering, how much peat exists in nature.
I mean what if, in like 20 years, like fossil fuel, there is no more peat moss left in the world?
WTF will we do then -






what do you mean that in 20 years there will not be anymore fossil fuel???

Funny that you compared the two though. Because there is a lot of fossil fuel buried under the peat bogs up north.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletahoe
Noob Slayer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: tahoe]
    #8005921 - 02/10/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

btw, runnin gout of peat would be almost like running our of sand. it just isnt going to happen


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: tahoe]
    #8008653 - 02/11/08 12:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I still think 20 years is a long time and there will be a time when peat prices elevate because of excessive demand and resource and conservation needs.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletahoe
Noob Slayer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8008676 - 02/11/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

do you think mushroom cultivation puts a dent on the peat supply?



--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: tahoe]
    #8008843 - 02/11/08 01:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

no I said in an earlier post that MC was not a relevant impact but that industrial nursery uses were the main problem.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletahoe
Noob Slayer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8008848 - 02/11/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

so there is a problem with the peat supply???


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: tahoe]
    #8009649 - 02/11/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Not a crazy one but there will eventually be a shortage but it's not like it will be very difficult to substitute. The problem is more the loss of wetlands and weather you think so or not it most of the problem. More than supply of peat or price.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletahoe
Noob Slayer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8012402 - 02/12/08 08:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Not a crazy one but there will eventually be a shortage but it's not like it will be very difficult to substitute. The problem is more the loss of wetlands and weather you think so or not it most of the problem. More than supply of peat or price.



well there will eventually be no water on the earth but this will be long after life on earth has died/moved.

there is nothing for us to worry about or anyone in the next 10 generations to worry about


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: tahoe]
    #8014358 - 02/12/08 06:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well I think you lack an understanding of the impact of peat excavation on the environment. First off it is a lot and there is a real impact. For example look at your photo above here, do you see the depth of that hole and all of the ground on the hill there in the foreground, I used more than that much peat moss today and I'm going to do it again tomorrow. Now when you look at his one all you see is a grassy field but there are likely a lot of animals that depend on such grassy fields to survive the nutrients in the soil and this land if left to the natural flow of things would eventually become a vibrant forest. But this is not a realistic depiction of how peat moss is always cultivated, since it often is in or around wetlands, it disturbs a lot of animals who live and/or eat around wetlands. I would like to mention now that a lot of environments that are torn up and rebuilt in this manor, often for oil sands or peat moss, only ever yield at the highest 90% restoration. Say though on a long enough Time line the peat bogs will restore these peat bogs, they are according to the link in the above post harvested for between 15 and 50 years. Now you can't tell me that there is no damage being done to the ecosystem by using peat. Though in Canada you'd have to also compare it to the environmental damage of importing coco-coir, there are other forms of agricultural waste that could be used instead of coco-coir (the husks of coconuts) MC does this all the time with straw and manure to mention two favorites.

Now I'm not too worried about it but it does seam a little unnecessary if you can make a superior product by industrial composting doesn't it. Why does industry have to use so much peat moss?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletahoe
Noob Slayer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8014717 - 02/12/08 07:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

great job at talking out your ass. Do not bring that liberal jargin up when talking about peat bogs. Do you have any idea which animals thrive in a peat bog??? Do you have any idea what the soil/peat ph level is at in a peat bog? Do you know of any plants that can live in a peat bog?

Sure of course we could one day run out of peat but it isnt going to happen in our lives or anyones lives who will even be able to find any historical records of you.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehazey
Male


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 2,277
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: tahoe]
    #8014749 - 02/12/08 07:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
great job at talking out your ass. Do not bring that liberal jargin up when talking about peat bogs. Do you have any idea which animals thrive in a peat bog??? Do you have any idea what the soil/peat ph level is at in a peat bog? Do you know of any plants that can live in a peat bog?

Sure of course we could one day run out of peat but it isnt going to happen in our lives or anyones lives who will even be able to find any historical records of you.




what? its hard for me to pay attention when that ass is smiling at me...:grin:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: hazey]
    #8020531 - 02/14/08 12:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

well other than many ducks and migrating birds, deer/moose/caribou, I don't know any specific ones and at the time I'm too busy to look up some rare one that could go extinct from loosing it's habitat to be a peat bog. There is almost no likelihood that there isn't some animal that fits that description, but that wasn't the bulk of my point anyway since I doubt you're a wildlife conservationist (even by hobby) who knows the mechanics and inhabitant species of peat bogs. There is nothing liberal about saying "hey were tearing up peat bogs and transporting their contents all over the world while there is a more ecological and likely more profitable localized solution that is being ignored. WTF's with that?" If this is liberal than Conservative must be just putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "NA NA NA NA I'm not listening" repeatedly.

I never said that we would run out of peat moss. I said there could be a shortage (demand could outstrip supply) eventualy. But higher prices will likely make developing a cheeper alternative an economic priority.

Sorry if I didn't explain this clearly and came off as talking out my ass.

Now If you don't mind I have to destroy the earth by using all the peat moss in the morning and I have a job interview so that I can process all the clearcut forests into mediocre wood (because of pests mentioned in my first post) and I have to do this really early. So I'm going to need to get some sleep.

[edit: besides if you'd read my posts you'd see they are mostly anecdotal testimonies about my retardedly environmentally destructive job that is the product of poor tenure, logging and forestry management practices.Also pointing out the hypocrisy of the fact that the job of producing the trees and planting them is considered to be an eco-friendly occupation, while it is in reality an antiquated approach that is a waste of money and time.]

[edited again: spelling- there are no mitigating birds in wetlands]


Edited by ScavengerType (02/14/08 03:58 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillar
Stranger
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 54
Loc: Canada
Re: Peat substitution and world PEAT Supply? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8024575 - 02/14/08 09:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I know that some peat bogs here are protected in national parks, they hold rare plants... on a northern windswept plateau, with peat bogs, the ecosystem is very unique. Everything happens very slowly, trees are stunted, carnivorous plants (they eat flies, before the casual reader freaks out) proliferate due to low nutrient levels (nitrogen especially? I don't know), and plants have to adapt to very damp, spongy, acid soil.

These bogs also do a remarkable job of regulating water... preventing both flood and drought by their ability to absorb quickly then release slowly. Actually, isn't that why we like peat? :smile:

Not commenting on the ecological aspects of peat harvesting, just saying that some peat-containing areas are important. In Scotland, they're still harvesting peat to burn in some areas. Very smoky. It's just coal, missing several million years of compaction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Boomr Bag   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Coco Peat Tao 1,521 4 03/30/04 06:04 PM
by simplemachine
* Sphagnum Peat Moss Casing ? NewbieS 2,386 8 08/01/05 12:50 PM
by kronnyQ
* Substituting perilite for vermiculite UrbanCowboy 1,671 6 08/09/01 04:14 PM
by L3D
* Substitute for Vermiculite? redfoot 1,449 11 05/13/03 06:22 PM
by Ekstaza
* Pf tek- verm substituted with peat!! pizzle3k 1,882 8 09/06/08 09:19 PM
by RogerRabbit
* Sphagnum peat moss for 50//50 casing? ShroomBilly 7,991 10 05/02/18 04:39 AM
by bodhisatta
* 50/50 Coco Coir versus 50/50 Peat Moss
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Blue Helix 51,441 93 12/04/16 11:30 AM
by mushboy
* Your Experience With Peat Moss... bigboomers 4,910 16 05/06/05 06:18 PM
by bluhoney

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
1,588 topic views. 17 members, 166 guests and 41 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.046 seconds spending 0.024 seconds on 14 queries.