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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 168
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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The Doc does a monotub (Pics) (Final Update)
#8004104 - 02/10/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi everyone, This is my first real grow other then a couple PF mistakes... I will be inoculating WBS then spawning to H-Poo in a monotub. I have 6 fully colonized wbs jars already.

These jars are Koh Samoi from one of the sponsors. But I must say, this strain is a fantastic colonizer, 1 week from multi spore syringe to the above pic. I followed Doc's WBS tek which worked out great. I wanted to know why he suggests only filling halfway with grain, so I filled 3 jars to the brim to see what would happen...


As you can see, much slower to colonize. Now my question is, I built my monotub with 7 quarts of spawn in mind, is it a good idea to go ahead and use the 6 fully colonized jars plus one of the slow ones or should I wait till it's finished? Will uncolonized grain contam when mixed with H-Poo or anything like that?
I have heard that WBS retains great moisture, and I have also heard RR say monotubs don't need to be cased... Every monotub I have seen has had a casing layer, but what is the point if wbs is going to hold moisture for me? Has anyone ever done a mono with no casing layer, how was it?
While were on the monotub, here is a pic.

I cracked is good while drilling my 1" holes.... I used some gorilla tape to fix it right up. This will be 4"-4.5" deep after its filled up, I can't wait. I plan on using 4 mil vinyl to make a cover for this thing, that and a bit of poly should seal her up good.
Thanks for looking everyone, questions, comments, and critique welcome.
-------------------- Linux Geek
Edited by Dr. Penguin (03/21/08 01:11 PM)
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Civ
Pinning



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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8004135 - 02/10/08 10:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your bottom holes need to be BELOW your substrate on the so the Co2 can "fallout"
seven qts is too much for that size of tub man, honestly. 3-4 qts is enough for that size.
Aye, RR says they don't NEED to be cased, but they perform better if they are.
Yes your uncolonized grains will contam if you spawn with them.
Some verm, coir or staw would help out your substrate also.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (02/10/08 10:42 AM)
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Seventy
equanimitor



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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8004147 - 02/10/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I left my c(oir)&c(offee), Koh Samui mono tub uncased and I've gotten over 2.5 ounces over about two flushes already. I think you're mistaken assuming that the wbs will hold enough moisture to get rid of the casing layer itself though. The reason you would want to case it is to give it a suitable pinning surface, to have those beneficial pinning micro-organisms that they're always talking about (I'm thinkging 50/50+ here), and to hold extra moisture through the flushes to help yield more. Wbs alone just isn't going to do that for you, but I've seen it myself that uncased tubs can produce. That was C&C though mind you.
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Seventy
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Civ]
#8004153 - 02/10/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Civ said: Your bottom holes need to be BELOW your substrate on the so the Co2 can "fallout"
do you really mean below? they're supposed to be on the exact same level as the sub so it can spill off...if it was below, the sub would spill out
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Crasher
αἱρετίζω




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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Seventy]
#8004160 - 02/10/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Civ, every monotub I've seen has holes at substrate level, not below. please explain how that would work without the sub pouring out after hes spawned.
-------------------- Give me silence, water, hope; Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


Registered: 01/04/08
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Crasher]
#8004195 - 02/10/08 11:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Civ: I have always seen the bottom holes at sub level, thats what I did. I don't want my sub to get all over the poly or spill out or anything. You really can't tell from the pic, but that is a 58 qt tub, quite big, about 19"x13". I was going to add a bit of gypsum to the sub as suggested in RR's videos, but I have some verm and access to straw so I could add some of that as well. as far as # of jars. I'm using the 1:4 ratio here so I can get a nice fast colonization time.
I have all the materials to do a 50/50+ so if you guys think casing will yield better then I will by all means.
Thanks everyone!
Edited by Dr. Penguin (02/10/08 11:06 AM)
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HybridprX
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Re: The Doc does a mono tub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8004214 - 02/10/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Co2 is forced upwards from colonized bulk substrates, you should mark off with a ruler six inches, measure off 1 and a half inches every inch or so and drill half inch holes all around, plug them when you decide you want more or less substrate and stuff the appropriate holes when finished.
I'll post a picture at some point in my life of the design, it works real nice for when I have to much or to less and want to do a mono tub for convenience
--------------------
Edited by HybridprX (02/10/08 11:09 AM)
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a mono tub (Pics) [Re: HybridprX]
#8007729 - 02/11/08 06:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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HybridprX: What do you use to close the holes now that you have like 10 of them? Duct tape? Doesn't that compromise the integrity of the tub, that plastic isn't too heavy duty? Thats a great idea though, lets get some pics up.
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Civ
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Seventy]
#8007750 - 02/11/08 06:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seventy said:
Quote:
Civ said: Your bottom holes need to be BELOW your substrate on the so the Co2 can "fallout"
do you really mean below? they're supposed to be on the exact same level as the sub so it can spill off...if it was below, the sub would spill out
Yes, below the sub! At the least level with it. Your plastic liner will make sure you don't spill all over 
But, my subs are 7 inches with an inch of caseing layer- I am sure smaller subs wont notice the difference as much with the level of the holes.
That tub is average mono-tub size, its when your up in the 80 liter tubs that it gets fun 
OH BTW- that does NOT mean you ONLY put holes under your sub- you put them all over, but some need to be at sub level at the least, some sub-sub level for the best IMO.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (02/11/08 06:43 AM)
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Civ
Pinning



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Re: The Doc does a mono tub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8007759 - 02/11/08 06:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Penguin said: Duct tape? Doesn't that compromise the integrity of the tub, that plastic isn't too heavy duty?
 
Notice the 7 inch crack on this mono- will it colonize?.....

like the americas!
masking tape, duct tape- its all good and it breathes so if you go easy it works wonders.
I notice the tap on your tub due to you cracking it. If you start with a REALLY small drill bit, then move up to larger size, its a bit easier. Also, if you mist water onto the area your drilling it helps relieve the tention.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (02/11/08 06:50 AM)
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a mono tub (Pics) [Re: Civ]
#8007829 - 02/11/08 07:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Civ: The water trick is great. It was weird that it cracked, I was using a hole saw, I've never cracked anything with that before.... I would have stepped up in size if I had used regular bits, but hole saws require some material in the mid to work right.
Maybe I will drill some small 1/4" holes below sub level, to try it out, good idea?
-------------------- Linux Geek
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xeallos
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Civ]
#8007878 - 02/11/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Civ said: Your bottom holes need to be BELOW your substrate on the so the Co2 can "fallout"
Right, because all the CO2 in the atmosphere "sinks" to the ground and suffocates us? 
Even if you had smaller holes at the bottom of your bin they would only be functional after colonization as the substrate retracts.
Looking good Dr, just remember 1:4 spawn ratio at minimum and you should be solid. Size of the tub looks good to me.
Case that bitch with 50/50 Limed to 8 and reap it.
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: xeallos]
#8011231 - 02/11/08 10:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here's a fun update for everyone:
I went ahead and started to pasteurize my H-poo/verm/gypsum mix. I filled about 5 quarts each into two oven bags. I lined the pot with jar lids to suspend it and everything. It went great until I went to pull the first bag out... I got it to about the pot lid level and as soon as I went to put my hand under it to support it, the bottom gave, showering my hand in 150 deg shit. Needless to say it hurt, made a huge fucking mess, and set me back a couple hours. On the plus side, the other 5qt bag is fine.
So now I need to do another bag/jars of pasteurization in order to continue. I rubber-banded the remaining bag quite well and have it cooling off. Will it be ok to wait about 12 hours before I pasteurize another batch? Will the pasteurized bag be fine?
I also realized I made a mistake in my calculations. In order to reach the predicted 4" depth, I will need to up my spawn to sub ratio to about 1:8. Would it be more prudent to change the ratio and level the sub with the holes? Or to have the holes 1/2"-1" above the substrate, making it about 3"-3.5" ?
Thanks for the help guys!
-------------------- Linux Geek
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MyOwnReality
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8011535 - 02/12/08 12:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You guys are funny, its easy not to crack plastic tubs. You simply heat the drill bit (or what ever cutting instrument) over an open flame(I use the stove or my handy burnzomatic propane torch) for half a minute, maybe a little more, then drill. The Heat softens the plastic and allows you to make your way through with much less resistance. Use a razor blade to trim off any excess and your done.
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Smushroom
Avid Learner
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: MyOwnReality]
#8011989 - 02/12/08 03:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Personally I would make it not as deep instead of adding more sub. If you increase the ratio it will take longer to colonize and the risk of contams goes up. If you did want to bulk up the sub a bit I would just pasteurize some straw by itself (soak for 2 hrs first or do a wet pasteurization) and add that to the poo. Straw will help airate the sub and speed up colonization a bit.
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ohmatic
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Seventy]
#8012027 - 02/12/08 04:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seventy said:
Quote:
Civ said: Your bottom holes need to be BELOW your substrate on the so the Co2 can "fallout"
do you really mean below? they're supposed to be on the exact same level as the sub so it can spill off...if it was below, the sub would spill out
yes, on substrate/casing layer level.
--------------------
MONOTUB tek HEATBOMB tek RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: ohmatic]
#8012306 - 02/12/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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MyOwnReality: I'll give that a shot next time
Smushroom: Thanks. I have to say I agree. I am very worried about contams as this is my first bulk grow.
ohmatic: Thanks for stopping by, your monotub tek was my inspiration for this grow.
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8013207 - 02/12/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here are some pics of my second attempt at pasteurization.
I loaded 2.5qts verm/poo/gypsum mix into each bag. I double bagged the one that would hold the thermometer as I think the problem before was from a hole I poked in the bag. 

I loaded them into a big pot lined with jar lids to keep the bags off the bottom. I pressed the air out of the bags and rubber-banded them closed. I used twist ties to suspend the necks to keep them out of the water.

I heated until the bags hit 150F and let them steep for 60 minutes.
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Civ
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: ohmatic]
#8013256 - 02/12/08 01:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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"yes, on substrate/casing layer level. "
Your substrate wont fallout lol 
OH - maybe you guys LITTERALY think I mean putting the holes on the BOTTOM of the sub/tub - that would be pretty shitty.
LOL . thats not what I meant- I meant to relay that you can place the holes , bottom holes, just slightly below the hight of the sub.
omg ohmatixckz! hhhheeeaaaaattttbbbbbbooommmbbb! I still have one with the same water in it from 04! sorry that was random.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (02/12/08 01:06 PM)
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Civ
Pinning



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Re: The Doc does a mono tub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8013271 - 02/12/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Penguin said: Civ: The water trick is great. It was weird that it cracked, I was using a hole saw, I've never cracked anything with that before.... I would have stepped up in size if I had used regular bits, but hole saws require some material in the mid to work right.
Maybe I will drill some small 1/4" holes below sub level, to try it out, good idea?
I use wood drill bits also, they seem to be softer.
yeah, to make clear, I didn't be below your substrate, just an inch or so below the top of the sub.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
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doc34
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8016601 - 02/13/08 08:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I wanted to know why he(Doc34) suggests only filling halfway with grain, so I filled 3 jars to the brim to see what would happen...
Haha, the reason for that is just what you experienced=your jars will swell and not be able to be shaken. If you fill your jars up completely, you actually will have enough bird seed to do two jars, that's why I say to only fill them up 1/2 way-to allow for the swelling of the grains.
Other than that, it looks like you are doing great.
 
Doc
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: doc34]
#8017048 - 02/13/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ha! Thanks doc, pleasure to have you stop by. This is my first forey into bulk subs and I'm loving it. I'm thinking of setting up a fully automated martha in a month or two.
I really like the pics you have in your sig, how do you go about filling that many trays? It looks like substrate bags are the way to go, but what should I fill them with to balance ease and yield? I would really like to step up my cultivation to another level.
I'm working with one of my professors (plant sci major) on some strain isolation on agar which is super cool. I can't wait to try some of that in non lab conditions with some hallucinogenic species.
Update: My tub is prepared and sitting in a dark corner waiting to colonize. I hear a week is standard colonization time, but with this koh samoi I'm hoping it will be shorter seeing as it did my jars in a week from multi spore. I will take some pics when it comes time to case. Thanks everyone!
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: doc34]
#8017318 - 02/13/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
doc34 said:
Quote:
I wanted to know why he(Doc34) suggests only filling halfway with grain, so I filled 3 jars to the brim to see what would happen...
Haha, the reason for that is just what you experienced=your jars will swell and not be able to be shaken. If you fill your jars up completely, you actually will have enough bird seed to do two jars, that's why I say to only fill them up 1/2 way-to allow for the swelling of the grains.
Other than that, it looks like you are doing great.
 
Doc
also.. so you can actually shake ur jar after inoculation... i don't know if this is in the tek but you should leave enough room to shake for faster colonization
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doc34
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8021265 - 02/14/08 07:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I really like the pics you have in your sig, how do you go about filling that many trays?
Thank you. Each one of those trays in my sig held one quart jar each of WBS and I cased using only Coco-Coir as a casing layer.
Doc
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: doc34]
#8022458 - 02/14/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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WOW! Thats only wbs? People are always saying not to fruit off wbs... Looks like you got your shit together. Keep it up!
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8070962 - 02/26/08 12:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey everyone, another update.
After colonization which took about 8 days:

I pasteurized some 50/50+ with added gypsum. I might have made it a bit too alkaline... We'll see.

Applied the casing:

Trimed up the excess tub liner. Here is the finished casing:

When I finished, the sub was about an inch below the hole level, unacceptable. I drilled two more holes on the short sides of the tub at casing layer. Hopefully this will allow CO2 to exhaust.

Thanks for looking everyone!
-------------------- Linux Geek
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SFsorrow
Is Born


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8071034 - 02/26/08 12:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Looking good! I can not wait to try a grow of my own after seeing this.
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tahoe
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: SFsorrow]
#8071753 - 02/26/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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put the holes on the sides but down at the bottom. You do not want the substrate bathing in co2.
They ask if the substrate/spawn will fall out of the holes? Probably not since most of you stick polyfill in the holes which is a bad idea. Just cover the holes with tape, it doesnt have to be micropore, remove the tape after the substrate starts holding itsself together.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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Dr. Penguin
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: tahoe]
#8080594 - 02/28/08 08:09 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Tahoe: I just put some more holes in at substrate level to drain co2 so no worries there. Check the pics.
Just another update. I put my mono into fruiting conditions. Dropped room temp to about 70-75. I have a box fan on low in the corner. And I have a 15watt compact florescent shining at the tub for about 12 hours a day. Sound alright?
Thanks everyone!
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8085861 - 02/29/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hi everyone. Quick update/question. I may have cased a bit late, I had knots forming on the sub that were just starting to turn cinnamon colored... I didn't think much of it at the time, but now I have some pins coming up through my casing layer even though the casing doesn't look fully colonized.

Should I just let them come through and pick them when mature? Or should I pluck them off now so I can get a nice even colonization? I am really excited to see the fruits of my labor. Thanks everyone!
-------------------- Linux Geek
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Dr. Penguin
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8119129 - 03/08/08 08:43 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Check out my pin set! Not the most impressive, but I'm proud of it.
 I picked the 4 I circled in the bottom left because the big one had opened about 3 days ago, I would not like to see rot here.
I have a couple questions maybe you guys can help me out a bit. Some of these fellows look like they are opening a bit short, could this be a sign of CO2 poisoning? I have 10 holes in it with a fan in the room, I would think it gets plenty of FAE but who knows. Maybe the Koh Samoi strain?
Anyone have an opinion on when to do a full harvest, pick off aborts and all? The big cluster in the middle looks like its going to be open and fully mature sometime today or early tomorrow. Alot of inconsistency here as far as maturity goes, some are done but I still have fresh pins coming up... Is there a rule of thumb here as to harvest procedure?
Thanks for stopping by!
P.S. Wet weight of the few I picked 91.3 grams.
-------------------- Linux Geek
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legallyhomeless
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8119552 - 03/08/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Your pinset was not that good because you tried fruiting it after you cased it, rather then following the late casing method or the standard colonizing your casing layer.
If your fruits are short it could def be to high CO2 levels. Maybe you used to much polyfill? I switched to tyvek not long ago, still waiting to see results.
As far as fans go, I keep a small fan directly on my monotub on low 24/7. Sounded to me like you just have a fan on in the room.
Nice job though
-------------------- MY TRADE LIST!!! FULLY AUTOMATIC!! 12-Pot Multi Grow Hydroponic System for Trade.
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Dr. Penguin
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Well, here it is as right before I took everything. I am hoping for a bit of a better pinset on the next flush, we shall see. These koh samoi are pretty weird in their growth habits, very knarled stems, split caps, and short, thick fruits. I'll let ya know how the trip is at a later date.
-------------------- Linux Geek
Edited by Dr. Penguin (03/12/08 11:04 PM)
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Seventy
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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#8139733 - 03/12/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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weird
my koh samui look absolutely nothing like that. they grow with skinnier stems and grow tall...meh, just goes to show that the name doesnt really distinguish much about a strain
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Dr. Penguin
Organic Chemist


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Re: The Doc does a monotub (Pics) (Final update) [Re: Seventy]
#8175872 - 03/21/08 01:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well heres the second flush. Nothing too special. Solid shrooms though, made for a nice final weight. Thank you to everyone that answered my questions and offered advice.

This koh Samoi strain, while being a very quick colonizer with excellent visuals, didn't quite turn out to be what I hoped. I didn't like the pin set and the small gnarled growth, but they worked out alright.
Good luck everyone, happy shrooming.
P.S. Would a mod push this into the grow log section.
-------------------- Linux Geek
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