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InvisibleiBruiseBlue
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Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook?
    #8003114 - 02/09/08 11:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I plan on dosing two hits of (relatively) strong acid at noon tomorrow, and it's had me wondering, is it true that acid isn't LSD-25 anymore? Even Tim Leary once said that Owsley's acid was the last true LSD-25, and anyone who claims they've dropped acid since then has been misinformed. I know my shit isn't DOB or any of that other substituted amphetamine trash, but is it truly LSD?


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OfflineBend the Bong
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003133 - 02/09/08 11:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

bear never cultivated the ergot fungus..he purchased premade bulk lysergic acid in the raw...then used that to create lsd...


lsd25...the 25 means it was the 25th experiment that hoffman got what the psychoactive lsd compound...


you are getting lsd yes...but is it the best stuff?? well the chemist has to make it right...and even if he does..is he using the best of the ergot ect ect....and does he give the best of the batch to the pushers?? and are they cutting it? watering it down...see what I mean...hoffman was the last to make the real deal imo....he cultured the ergot fungus on his own making sure it was perfect for what he was using it for...which at the time was lsd


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Edited by Bend the Bong (02/09/08 11:25 PM)


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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003135 - 02/09/08 11:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

what?
:toomuchacid:


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003147 - 02/09/08 11:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i can see how acid could be watered down or light, but I don't see how any form of acid could be not pure/true. that makes no sense in my opinion. how can a molecule not be pure?

a molecule is a molecule, if it was missing an element, it wouldn't be that molecule, it would be something else.


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InvisibleiBruiseBlue
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Bend the Bong]
    #8003152 - 02/09/08 11:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm aware of why Hoffman named it LSD-25, my question was simply this, does today's street blotter contain the exact compound that was accidentally ingested that fateful April afternoon?


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OfflineBend the Bong
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003166 - 02/09/08 11:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iBruiseBlue said:
I'm aware of why Hoffman named it LSD-25, my question was simply this, does today's street blotter contain the exact compound that was accidentally ingested that fateful April afternoon?




erowid had an article about this...where someone had an old vial of delsyd*spelling*...which was 60 years old never opened...they tested it at that symposium they held in switzerland...and people were saying it was the same thing as the acid they have on the streets...


the question I have to ask is this....does 200 mics make you feel like you are on trippy crack?? cause thats what my first lsd experience felt like...is this subjective or compound...or both?? the other lsd experiences were more calm and nice...

did hoffman feel like he was on crack??


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Edited by Bend the Bong (02/09/08 11:36 PM)


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Offlinetyler_0_durden
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003171 - 02/09/08 11:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ummm...I got real LSD this past summer.

You will never be able to tell just by looking at your blotter or whatever it's on, but you should be able to tell based on what happens after you take the dose...

-you shouldn't taste much of anything when you take it
-before you even start hallucinating or seeing movement in your vision, you may notice that the first twenty minutes after dosing feels like hours.
-initial effects will be felt after the first 20-25 minutes
-you should start to trip out within the first hour (esp. w/ strong LSD)
-you should notice an effect of your peripheral vision bending backward somewhat...or it disappearing altogether..
-the peak is reached at about the 3-4 hour mark and lasts to the 8 hour mark. It is characterized by a sudden loss of ego and possible OBE's and NDE's..
the trip usually winds down after a good 12 hours, when you finally return to normalcy...

That's LSD. Any RC out there is slightly different..


--------------------
"As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter."  --Max Planck


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003175 - 02/09/08 11:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iBruiseBlue said:
I'm aware of why Hoffman named it LSD-25, my question was simply this, does today's street blotter contain the exact compound that was accidentally ingested that fateful April afternoon?




Yes, if your blotter contains real acid, it's LSD-25, d-lysergic diethylamide. Who's been feeding you what kind of pseudoscientific hogwash about Owsley being the last one ever to make it? What about the families? What about Pickard?


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InvisibleiBruiseBlue
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8003254 - 02/10/08 12:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I was just wondering why someone like Leary would make a statement like that. Just because I'm curious about the possibility that LSD-25 hasn't existed since the 1960's doesn't mean that I believe it. I have always thought my blotters and gels to be true LSD, but certainty is the first step towards being a fool.


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OfflineMorphMan
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8003391 - 02/10/08 01:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iBruiseBlue said:
I was just wondering why someone like Leary would make a statement like that. Just because I'm curious about the possibility that LSD-25 hasn't existed since the 1960's doesn't mean that I believe it. I have always thought my blotters and gels to be true LSD, but certainty is the first step towards being a fool.




I highly doubt he meant literally. Leary was probably speaking figuratively.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: MorphMan]
    #8003685 - 02/10/08 05:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

some people are talking that ALD-52 (not an RC) is the LSD-25 imposter, it is supposedly very simmilar but only 1/2 as active by measure, so that rather than 75mics LSD/blotter you may have 150mics ALD and never be the wiser.
would it matter?


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OfflineRaeven
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8003741 - 02/10/08 06:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Doubt it, its well documented that ald-52 is highly unstable and will degrade into lsd after a short time, meaning you will need to consume it in a few days or it'll just be lsd-25. I'm also fairly sure theyre effects are very identical but ald-52 is said to be even more easier to handle then acid.


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Offlinejizmaster

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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: appleorange]
    #8003862 - 02/10/08 08:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

a molecule is a molecule, if it was missing an element, it wouldn't be that molecule, it would be something else.




exactly, i was tempted to reply to another post saying basically this but it was a bit old so i didn't bother.

Bend the Bong, did Hoffman really cultivate ergot? Seems unlikely...

And he couldn't do anything to 'make sure it was perfect for what he was using it for...which at the time was lsd,' except grow it, extract the lysergamides and hydrolyse them to lysergic acid, which is lysergic acid however it's obtained.

Raeven, i'm not sure how unstable it would be, N-acetyl indoles apparently survive strong acid (nitric, trifluoroacetic) but are cleaved by strong base (hydroxide). It sounds like it could easily survive being on a piece of blotter for a few weeks and the journey to the brain. Unless the body has some enzyme that will cleave it...

Edit: N-Acetyl indole and several others can be purchased, it's not noted as being unstable.


Edited by jizmaster (02/10/08 08:31 AM)


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: jizmaster]
    #8003895 - 02/10/08 08:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Of course Leary would say Owsley was the last true LSD cook. You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.

Acid is acid. You can get bunk, you can get rc's but acid is and always will be acid, otherwise it wouldn't be acid.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #8003983 - 02/10/08 09:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.



:thumbup:


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8004009 - 02/10/08 09:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The thing is about LSD synth is the enantiomers aren't psychoactive.

I'm not sure about the isomers either, but I'm pretty sure the only psychoactive compound is D-LSD, whereas when preparing the LSD you have D-isoLSD, L-isoLSD, D-LSD and L-LSD..

The purity of the product is affected greatly by the ability to remove/convert the unwanted isomers produced in the synthesis.

I don't doubt that there are a lot of brilliant 'cooks' out there.. it has been said many times that most second year chemists could make it.. :shrug:


--------------------
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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #8004018 - 02/10/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
Of course Leary would say Owsley was the last true LSD cook.  You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.

Acid is acid.  You can get bunk, you can get rc's but acid is and always will be acid, otherwise it wouldn't be acid.




true that. in high school i had a friend who's next door neighbor was cool as fuck and smoked us out all the time,  he was in his late 40s.he used to talk about all the acid he got in the 70s and how it completely sent him to another world and he insisted the stuff we get nowadays isn't real acid. he had tried some bunk shit from some teenagers in the neighborhood and was convinced acid isnt real anymore. when i saw him last year i told him that i could get him real acid, that i had tried it myself, and these gels were very real. he said he didn't want it,  and insisted that it couldnt possibly be real.  :shrug: i don't understand why people would pass up the chance for some real lucy just because of a stupid preconception about today's acid. ithe hits may not be as strong of a dose, but the chemical is the same LSD-25 that was around in the 60s, and 70s .


--------------------


Edited by ShroomDoom (02/10/08 10:05 AM)


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8004038 - 02/10/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.



:thumbup:




Leary was a good guy.. but unfortunately he possed a quality not suitable for the position he elevated himself to. His major problem was that he was a media darling.. If you actually read anything Leary wrote its not 'full of shit'.. its just another mans interpretation of the psychedelic experience. He is somewhat pretentious is his literature, and in places you do have to read between the lines, but in general he was a good guy.

As I said before.. the only place I can fault him is his tendancy to be a media hound. :shrug:


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: MorphMan]
    #8004126 - 02/10/08 10:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MorphMan said:
Quote:

iBruiseBlue said:
I was just wondering why someone like Leary would make a statement like that. Just because I'm curious about the possibility that LSD-25 hasn't existed since the 1960's doesn't mean that I believe it. I have always thought my blotters and gels to be true LSD, but certainty is the first step towards being a fool.




I highly doubt he meant literally. Leary was probably speaking figuratively.


as always....




indeed im sure he ment bear was the last one to make "real" meaning up to his standards, lsd-25


and im sure he just used the full name to sound like the smart doc he is


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: notapillow]
    #8004155 - 02/10/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

notapillow said:
Quote:

MorphMan said:
I highly doubt he meant literally. Leary was probably speaking figuratively.


as always....

indeed im sure he ment bear was the last one to make "real" meaning up to his standards, lsd-25




This is simply not true. Leary apparently went around telling people that no more real LSD exists, it's all strychnine and speed and crap (which is obviously horseshit).

Just watch the Bill Maher episode Learyfan just posted. Bill Maher makes a douche of himself insisting that real LSD isn't around anymore (because Leary told him so), while three of his four guests call bullshit, having personally taken real LSD more recently than the '60s.

There are parts of his trip that are genuine, but mostly he was a egomaniac with a penchant for pseudoscience.


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InvisibleSwan Song

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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8004294 - 02/10/08 11:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

what is this RC and ALD52 i keep reading about. i know lsd but some of the other acronyms are loosing me here. i always thought the stuff i was taking was lsd i had no idea there were other similar things out there that produced those effects and still fit on blotter paper. could someone elaborate or tell me where to look for it myself.

Thanks

Lost


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Swan Song]
    #8004324 - 02/10/08 11:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lostinnc said:
what is this RC and ALD52 i keep reading about. i know lsd but some of the other acronyms are loosing me here. i always thought the stuff i was taking was lsd i had no idea there were other similar things out there that produced those effects and still fit on blotter paper. could someone elaborate or tell me where to look for it myself.

Thanks

Lost




Some people think that the sunshine acid of the early 70's was actually ALD-52, because when the chemists got caught that's what they said it was. In reality they were probably just saying that to avoid being caught for making a highly controlled substance, and either way ALD-52 undergoes hydrolysis to create LSD so it seems unlikely to me that anybody distributes ALD.


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: g00ru]
    #8004340 - 02/10/08 11:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

who would listen to leary about anything having to do with chemistry?!?!?!?! he was a psychology professor, not a chemist. he never cooked it up.


--------------------
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Offlinejizmaster

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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Cepheus]
    #8004375 - 02/10/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The only isomers you will get are the isomers at the position where the amide is attached, ie. D-LSD and D-iso-LSD. The other two possible isomers next to the amine (L-LSD and L-iso-LSD) aren't produced naturally or during the synthesis.

I doubt anyone would bother making ALD-52 to sell, possibly though to satisfy personal curiosity, since it needs an extra synthetic step, doesn't increase potency and is just as illegal because of the analog act. The last thing you would want to do if you have grams or more of illegaly produced LSD is do more chemistry on it!


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: iBruiseBlue]
    #8004643 - 02/10/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iBruiseBlue said:
I'm aware of why Hoffman named it LSD-25, my question was simply this, does today's street blotter contain the exact compound that was accidentally ingested that fateful April afternoon?




LSD is LSD. If it's not LSD, then its not LSD. Of course there's lots of 'fake' stuff that goes around all the time, but that doesn't mean that there isn't real LSD anymore. And yeah its the same as it was in the 60s.

That is of course unless its not LSD. You get me :smile2:


Edited by Ombient (02/10/08 01:19 PM)


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Robo]
    #8004917 - 02/10/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So technically, the last person to make "LSD-25" was the first. Hoffman. But plenty of others have synthesized the molecule since, and continue to do so to this day. Just because I don't know how doesn't mean that others can't do it. They still test for and arrest for LSD.


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: 04281969]
    #8005227 - 02/10/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is why I love chemistry. It defies age, trend, etc.

A chemical will be identical to another sample at a different time, place, etc.

I see no reason that LSD would not exist in large amounts worldwide to this day. :shrug:


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: 04281969]
    #8005291 - 02/10/08 04:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
So technically, the last person to make "LSD-25" was the first.  Hoffman.



:confused::confused::confused:

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.  There's no difference between LSD-25 and d-lysergic diethylamide. 

That'd be like me claiming that the last "real" heroin was the stuff synthesized by C.R. Alder Wright, and everything since then hasn't been "true" heroin.  :wtf:


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8006024 - 02/10/08 07:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What I mean to say by that is the term "LSD-25" was actually a designation created by the Sandoz company in order to keep its chemical stocks separate. But, d-lysergic diethylamide is something that many people have synthesized.

Like, if synthesized, or clinically manufactured mescaline were named "Mescazol" by Globochem, and someone in their home made some mescaline, they shouldn't call it "Mescazol".


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: 04281969]
    #8006297 - 02/10/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ah, I get you now.  :strokebeard:

But I think I still have to respectfully disagree.

Take aspirin as a counterexample.  "Aspirin" is the brand name given to acetylsalacylic acid (ASA).  If I synthed some ASA (which I actually did in high school), I wouldn't call it ASA; I'd call it aspirin.  Because that's something people call it.

Or heroin.  If I synthesized some diacetylmorphine (aka diamorphine, aka acetomorphine), I wouldn't call it any of those fancy names; I'd call it heroin (again, that's its original patent name), because that's something people call it.


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8008026 - 02/11/08 09:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Aspirin is really old, though. Lots of lawyers have come and gone since. Today there are common names, generic names, and patented names with copyrights, etc.

I just think that if another drug company were ever to make LSD, they wouldn't call it LSD-25. But, it's an issue hardly worth worrying too much about.


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8008673 - 02/11/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.



:thumbup:




and  a narc


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OfflinePilzeEssen


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: mr_pat]
    #8008679 - 02/11/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mr_pat said:
Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.



:thumbup:




and  a narc




why do you say that? not disagreeing or anything, just curious..


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Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: PilzeEssen]
    #8008731 - 02/11/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PilzeEssen said:
Quote:

mr_pat said:
Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
You shouldn't listen to a thing Leary ever said he was completely full of shit.



:thumbup:




and  a narc




why do you say that? not disagreeing or anything, just curious..




Timothy Leary, the counter-culture guru of the Sixties, who urged his generation to "tune in, turn on, drop out" informed on friends and helpers in order to get out of jail early.

That is the picture that emerges from Federal Bureau of Investigation documents now published on the Internet.


When Timothy Leary died from prostate cancer in 1996 at the age of 76, obituary writers focused on his experimentation with drugs, his counter-culture history, and how Mr Leary chronicled his slow death via the Internet.

The former Harvard professor of psychology had preached anti-establishment slogans all his adult life.

But after he was jailed on narcotics charges in 1974, Mr Leary began cooperating with FBI agents investigating his 1971 escape from a California prison.

He had been helped by members of the radical Weather Underground group to escape from the jail and, after hiding in a series of safe houses, he was smuggled out of the country with the help of a false passport and other fake documents provided by the Weathermen.

Change of heart

After being extradited from Switzerland and returned to a US jail, Mr Leary decided to cooperate. He told FBI agents this was not only because he wanted to be released, but also because he had developed a desire for a collaborative and honourable relationship with law enforcement officers.

"I want get out of prison as quickly as I can," he told the investigators. "And I believe that telling the total truth is the best way to get out of prison."

"I prefer to work, I'm never going at it illegally ever again," Mr Leary continued in his statement, " but I would prefer to work constructively and collaboratively with intelligence and law enforcement people who are willing to forget the past."

Mr Leary justified his decision by saying he wanted to continue contributing to public debates.

"I still have a lot to say ... it's part of a longer range plan of mine," he said according to the...........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/380815.stm

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS255US255&q="timothy+leary"+informer&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nw


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OfflinePilzeEssen


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7,312
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: mr_pat]
    #8008813 - 02/11/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i thought he was part of the hemlock society, and decided to end his life himself?


--------------------
"The soul has greater need of the ideal than of the real. It is by the real that we exist, it is by the ideal that we live."

If you want to get a hold of me, my email address is in my profile. Just click on my screen name. I got banned from using private messages cause I didn't follow the rules... :frown:


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Offlinethepatient89
Stranger

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 8
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Was Owsley the Last True LSD-25 Cook? [Re: PilzeEssen]
    #8031560 - 02/16/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Does anyone who's taken LSD realize that there HAS to be some way for society to utilize it? Truly, our society needs to take the entire idea and use it responsibly. It's too much power for us to just make illegal. Anyone who has not tried it and who is internally strong enough to use it and realize its fullest potential, I apologize from the bottom of my heart that my species has gone and fucked it up for everyone. Damn us, fools.


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