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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
In case anyone cares.
    #8002667 - 02/09/08 09:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I recently cloned the largest OI I could grow. I cloned for size. I am a n00b.. that's how I do. I then inoculated 3 quarts of rye with that clone. Those 3 quarts were cased together in 50/50, because I am lazy. That case was grown side by side with single quarts of other strains spawned 1:4 coir/castings. The case outperformed the 4 other bulks, yielding at least 40% more weight per similar size container (not by amount of spawn/rye used).

So. Does rye perform that well un-spawned, and just cased, or is it the cloning? I have the feeling it's the cloning, seeing as how they grew large and dense, but I have never grown cased rye before. Also, I should add, that the bulks all grew rather spindly (and are thusly light), but the pin-sets are astounding.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


Edited by thedefone (02/09/08 09:48 PM)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8002940 - 02/09/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Rye is a great substrate, but I'm sure the cloning had a great deal to do with it. Scatmanrav and Magash are 2 posters I can think of off the top of my head that both had great pics of rye grows:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4024831#Post4024831

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3039921#Post3039921


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Quick WBS Prep


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: FooMan]
    #8006007 - 02/10/08 07:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Word. Yeah, I sort of figured. Wanna see comparisons? This first one is from the OI rye, and weighs out at 10 grams.



This is some mazatapec. It weighs substantially less. However, there are tons of them. On the other hand, the OI out-performed the MS bulks across the board.



This is some of the pin-setting I was talking about. I don't really know, but to me, that seems pretty good for a second flush pinset. Tell me I suck. That's okay, I can take it.



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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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Invisibleshroober
Myco Junkie

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8006043 - 02/10/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

nice, thats a killer pin-set, i just love genetically superior shroomies


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Offlineeleven357
Is learning
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Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Ocean Pacific
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: shroober]
    #8058529 - 02/22/08 09:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Great looking shrooms bro! :thumbup::mushroom2:


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InvisibleMahavatar
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Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 75
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: eleven357]
    #8058605 - 02/22/08 10:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the links FooMan, those casing pics by Scatman were fucking awesome.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: eleven357]
    #8058606 - 02/22/08 10:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The bigger it is means more moisture. Not the actual trait.


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058632 - 02/22/08 10:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The bigger it is means more moisture. Not the actual trait.



I'm not buying into that. Explain why I cloned this mushroom and the fruits I grew from that clone are so similar to the parent. If anything, there was more moisture in the spawned bulks next door than there was in those straight grains.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8058653 - 02/22/08 10:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Shortage of moisture is why you got such a small yield.


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058712 - 02/22/08 10:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So the only reason Penis Envy grow thick and dense is because of moisture? Genetics must not have anything to do with it. How does cloning effect everything else regarding mushrooms but not size? Please explain that to me.

When I grew the parent of these OI out in the first place, they were substantially larger than the B+, and GT's I had going. All three were grown on the same batch of rye and spawned to the same batch of coir. In this particular case, this moisture talk is off center.

That being said, I understand the connection between large fruits and moisture, but I am convinced that the size of these fruits is related to the cloning I did.


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


Edited by thedefone (02/22/08 10:54 PM)


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8058746 - 02/22/08 10:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm stumped on genetics. I haven't done as much as research on that at all besides agar work. I'm sorry I don't know this and I kick myself for not. If you want to give me a bad rating I understand. I'll be working on finding that answer out tonight. heh. All I do know is the reason why you got a small yield is because of moisture. Why do you think coir and straw produce such huge mushrooms?


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058764 - 02/22/08 11:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Who said anything about small yields? Just because the fruits were small doesn't mean there weren't tons of them. The pin-setting on the MS subs was outstanding, but the OI clone was so dense it weighed up really heavy. It's just that the OI pounded the MS subs in the yield department. That's all.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058773 - 02/22/08 11:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

OK Here I'll post this and sum it up from what I think

By the time a substrate fruits, hundreds or perhaps thousands of strains have exchanged DNA, either weakening or strengthening the mass. What you get is a 'heinz 57' that may or may not be that great because the weaker genes and the stronger genes(mycelium) have all combined. An example would be mixed breed dogs. We've all seen good examples and others that are dumber then hell.


So taking a piece of mycelium from that mushroom doesn't mean you have that desired trait of it. You just know it FRUITS. c performing fruiters. From taking a piece you don't know which trait your taking from it so it's a hit and miss. I do know though the bigger it is means moisture content. There's still some questions I can't answer. I'll be studying this tonight to understand more.



It is...Size is just moisture related.....OOOO Now i see where you getting at...I'm so dense. Some strains just fruit with bigger traits. I don't know why. I guess it's just that trait. The bigger it is though is just moisture related. I'm confusing myself. :frown:


Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/22/08 11:22 PM)


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058817 - 02/22/08 11:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Give RR his due.  This may sound familiar.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but at least credit him.

Quote:

One swipe of spores on agar will yield hundreds of strains. By selecting a dozen or so of the best rhizomorphic strains and fruiting each one separately, you can find the super performer that will cover every spot of your casing layer with healthy pins. It might take hundreds of multispore grows to find that strain, if ever, because multispore inoculated substrates usually end up with only one or two strains by the time they fruit because they've all combined. (anastomosis)

This means the good fruiting and potent strains combine with the poor fruiting and bunk strains. You never know what you're going to get. Isolate on agar, then fruit separately and test each strain. When you find the best one, you can keep master slants in the refrigerator and grow that isolate forever.  RR



But if you had quoted this, you might have been better off. (Same thread, by the way.) :wink:  So, basically what I'm taking away from this is that even though I am still not doing the same thing as true strain isolation when i do a simple tissue clone (obviously:rolleyes:) I am narrowing the range of possibility.  One or two strains fruited out of that initial OI grow.  I cloned from that and narrowed the field of candidates and it worked out for me.   

Quote:

On the other hand, cloning doesn't leave you with that choice. On a single grow, that's it.. through anastamosis you've likely narrowed your substrate down to a few (sub)strains, and it still has to do with chance, but your choices are now limited. So you clone a fruitbody... at least you *know* you're taking genetic material from something capable of fruiting, because the proof is in hand already. If you happen to get lucky and not only grew a good performer by chance, but chose a good performer, then haven't you reached the game goal? -Creamcorn



Oh shit..  that's what I just said. :wink: 

Creamcorn's explanation of the moisture thing..


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8058827 - 02/22/08 11:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A quote battle! I love it!

:popcorn:


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8058831 - 02/22/08 11:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

differences between strain isolation by transfers and by cloning?

Here's that thread again, for anyone else reading this... It's a goldmine! Dumbfounded... Yes. The size potential of the mushroom is genetic. Whether or not it reaches that potential is environmental. Agreed?

Quote:

A quote battle! I love it!



I need those quotes! You think I have any idea what I'm talking about?


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


Edited by thedefone (02/22/08 11:48 PM)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8058839 - 02/22/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

thedefone said:
I need those quotes!  You think I have any idea what I'm talking about?




:rofl2:


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: thedefone]
    #8058849 - 02/22/08 11:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I should've quoted this...I'm sorry haha I am in no way shape or form have 1/3rd of his knowledge in me...yet, anyways. Yeah ... It's just narrowing it down. Found something else very interesting.


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

agar said:
Usually, more weight = more active content.
Wet or dry.




Which is correct of course, a larger mushroom is likely to have more actives, however the concentration per gram of weight is considerably less. That's why pins and aborts are universally agreed to be much more potent. As a mushroom gets bigger, the cells don't divide. They expand. Larger mushrooms are less potent per gram than smaller ones.
RR




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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058858 - 02/22/08 11:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

haha..Yeah agreed.


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: In case anyone cares. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8058868 - 02/22/08 11:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I saw that too. More size = more water = less actives by weight. These puppies are pretty good, though. Not the best by any means, but decent. The strongest mushrooms I ever grew were off my first batch. Tiny little fuckers. If I could have those again... I didn't push many up, though. I just like the mass these OI produce. They're thick, healthy mushrooms.


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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