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OfflinePlok
Life is fractal
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Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 1,152
Loc: Los Angeles
Last seen: 25 days, 10 hours
Is it a coincidence that water is clear?
    #8000189 - 02/09/08 01:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Think about this for a minute. It's deeper than it seems at first.

Water and oxygen are the primary components of all life on this planet. Obviously carbon and other elements are involved as well.

But we need water and oxygen more critically than anything else.

They are both transparent. Now granted both distort and bend light, but they are both relatively invisible.

The vast majority of chemicals and compounds in the universe are not invisible, but the two most required to sustain most life on this planet are. Carbon dioxide, which plants use, is also invisible.

It seems like there is something profound about this that I am struggling to reach for but can't quite articulate. Why is this? How much of a coincidence is it, and how much does it tie into our origins?

We have evolved visual apparatuses that see these life sustaining compounds as invisible...


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Just say NO to the War on Drugs.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Plok]
    #8000224 - 02/09/08 01:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Think about this for a minute.



Perhaps if you made any sense whatsoever.

Quote:

We have evolved visual apparatuses that see these life sustaining compounds as invisible...



And our ears have evolved to hear silence...


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OfflineApJunkie
part-time Ninja
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Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 2,735
Loc: Loc:Loc:Loc:Loc:Loc:
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Plok]
    #8000234 - 02/09/08 01:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

CO2 isn't invisibCO2 isn't invisible, it's just spread so sparingly that you can't percieve it most of the time. If you've ever been in a mountainous region during a pressure inversion you've seen CO2 concentrated enough to be visible.

Nitrogen is 78% of our atmosphere however, so I suppose it's good that it's pretty much invisible to our eyes, but even with this there's a huge amount of empty space between the air molecules.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Plok]
    #8000370 - 02/09/08 02:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Plok said:
Think about this for a minute. It's deeper than it seems at first.

Water and oxygen are the primary components of all life on this planet. Obviously carbon and other elements are involved as well.

But we need water and oxygen more critically than anything else.

They are both transparent. Now granted both distort and bend light, but they are both relatively invisible.

The vast majority of chemicals and compounds in the universe are not invisible, but the two most required to sustain most life on this planet are. Carbon dioxide, which plants use, is also invisible.



It seems like there is something profound about this that I am struggling to reach for but can't quite articulate. Why is this? How much of a coincidence is it, and how much does it tie into our origins?

We have evolved visual apparatuses that see these life sustaining compounds as invisible...




what?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Plok]
    #8000547 - 02/09/08 03:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't believe everything your senses told you. That which we cannot "see" is invisible or translucent to us, but our senses are limited to our human perspective. Water might be orange for all I know; I just cannot percieve it as such.

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Offlinelearningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
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Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: MOTH]
    #8000841 - 02/09/08 04:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

OP, lay off the drugs.


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OfflineCubie
Moderator
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Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: learningtofly]
    #8001212 - 02/09/08 05:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Clear plastic, glass, albino spores, rubbing alcohol, h202 ect...

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Cubie]
    #8001481 - 02/09/08 06:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

And aliens - please do not overlook the invisible Reptoids. :nono:


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OfflineDraigan
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Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 70
Last seen: 16 years, 29 days
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8002015 - 02/09/08 07:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think you can wrap your head around anything because nothing is there!!

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Plok]
    #8002505 - 02/09/08 09:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Plok said:
Think about this for a minute. It's deeper than it seems at first.

Water and oxygen are the primary components of all life on this planet. Obviously carbon and other elements are involved as well.

But we need water and oxygen more critically than anything else.

They are both transparent. Now granted both distort and bend light, but they are both relatively invisible.

The vast majority of chemicals and compounds in the universe are not invisible, but the two most required to sustain most life on this planet are. Carbon dioxide, which plants use, is also invisible.

It seems like there is something profound about this that I am struggling to reach for but can't quite articulate. Why is this? How much of a coincidence is it, and how much does it tie into our origins?

We have evolved visual apparatuses that see these life sustaining compounds as invisible...




For future reference, to avoid sounding like a raving lunatic, it might not be a bad idea to do a little quick reading on the electromagnetic spectrum and how human vision works.

For an example of how this soudned to me, I present you the following:

Quote:

Plok said:
Think about this for a minute. It's deeper than it seems at first.

DNA and protein are the primary components of all life on this planet. Obviously oxygen and other chemicals are involved as well.

But we need DNA and proteins more critically than anything else.

They are both very small. Now granted one is slightly larger than the other, but they are both relatively invisible to the naked eye.

The vast majority of chemicals and compounds in the universe are not small (rocks, metals, lakes, oceans), but the two most required to sustain most life on this planet are. Even chlorophyll, which plants use, is also very small.

It seems like there is something profound about this that I am struggling to reach for but can't quite articulate. Why is this? How much of a coincidence is it, and how much does it tie into our origins?

We have evolved life sustaining compounds as all very small chemicals...



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Offlinelearningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8002918 - 02/09/08 10:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am confused is he asking why some things are small and some things are big?


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: learningtofly]
    #8003007 - 02/09/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No, he's just having a small bout of verbal diarrhea... when you take too many drugs and start vocalizing a train of thought which you think is profound, but really carries no significance of any kind on the cosmic scale. The fact of the matter is, there's no cosmic significance to the color of a substance.

Whether or not we can see a thing depends on what frequencies it absorbs light at. This is in turn related to the bonding state of the compound and what energetic states are available for it to be promoted to. When a molecule is struck by a photon, it can absorb the energy of that photon, but since the promoted state is higher-energy and thus unstable relative to the ground state, the molecule will relax back to the lower energy ground state by releasing a photon containing the energy difference between the two levels. Bottom line: the frequencies of light a molecule absorbs come out of the its wavefunction (ie it's basically arbitrary)

Our eyes have evolved to percieve a narrow range of the electromagnetic spectrum. Since sight has been so highly conserved and evolutionarily successful, it is reasonable to conclude that eyes percieve light in a region of the spectrum which is highly suited for increased survival. And I would contend that it's completely reasonable that both air and water typically appear clear to us.

Think about it from a survival perspective: You don't need to be able to see air to breath effectively; it's an omnipresent resource. And in fact, if air absorbed light in the visible range, it would severely impair the ability to see at distances (imagine constantly looking through colored fog). And water, as the OP pointed out, diffracts light. It doesn't need to be colored for you to be able to see it. On the other hand I think it's very useful survival-wise that pure water appear clear; that way, impurities in the water can be more easily seen and tainted water can be more easily avoided.

Nothing deep and cosmic going on here, just basic bioevolution logic.

Edited by Entropymancer (02/09/08 10:49 PM)

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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8003052 - 02/09/08 10:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Cool post! :thumbup:

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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Plok]
    #8003343 - 02/10/08 12:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

But we need water and oxygen more critically than anything else.




In an abstract sense I understand what your saying, but it's important to understand that none of the components of life are more or less important. Life is dependent on no short a list of elements in addition to the ones you mentioned (nitrogen and phosphorus come immediately to mind).

Quote:

They are both transparent. Now granted both distort and bend light, but they are both relatively invisible




Again the underlying implication is understood but you must know thats only according to your own view. The terms used are inherently relative and subjective.

Quote:

It seems like there is something profound about this that I am struggling to reach for but can't quite articulate. Why is this? How much of a coincidence is it, and how much does it tie into our origins?




If you keep reducing down you will find that the significance of water cannot be overstated. Water is central to ALL theories of origin. Not to lessen the significance of your own question, this is your thread. But to me the really interesting thing about water is the fact that it is the only substance (known) that is less dense in it's solid state! Think about that. What if ice were not less dense than water? Bodies would freeze more readily, and from the bottom up! I have done a lot of reading about this and I still have not found a reason for the fact, but it is ASTOUNDING the number of processes that depend on ice being less dense than water.


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Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.

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Offlineigwna
The Cap'n
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Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Fugai]
    #8003541 - 02/10/08 02:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

this guy must hate himself now.


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: igwna]
    #8003607 - 02/10/08 03:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I understand you perfectly, forget the haters.

Our eyes can only see so much, until you open yourself to the way of the Tao, then you truley sense ALL, nothing is invisible to you anymore. Everything is clear.

The fact water is transparent is pure poetry in fluid motion, asis the air we breathe.

It has everything to do with our origins, that why you ache so for it.
Realise this and your ache will turn into pure joy.


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Edited by Chronic7 (02/10/08 03:52 AM)

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Offlinelobotomix
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 327
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8003738 - 02/10/08 06:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

maybe its a coincidence, maybe not.
who knows?

and who wants to know? why? :heart:

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OfflineDraigan
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Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 70
Last seen: 16 years, 29 days
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: lobotomix]
    #8003799 - 02/10/08 07:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Rofl that thing where your on drugs and you think its profound, but to everyone els it aint. Hahahhaha, that is so funny.

Its all good bro. I love you anyways. Hahhahahhaham, rofl.

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Invisibleelbisivni

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: Draigan]
    #8004374 - 02/10/08 12:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

OMG that is soo funnay!!

:bitchsmack:


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Offlinelifeson2112
Stranger

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 36
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Is it a coincidence that water is clear? [Re: elbisivni]
    #8005141 - 02/10/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That's fun stuff to think about, but I don't think most people can appreciate it. That's how I imagine most artists think. Noticing little pointless and nonsensical things and giving them meaning to yourself and others who are riding the same train of thought. Of course it doesn't have any scientific meaning, but most things that people value in life doesn't.

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