|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
On Nothingness
#7999035 - 02/09/08 02:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Someone asks you what's up and you say nothing.
"What, nothing? That is not possible."
"How so?"
"Well, by saying nothing you have just said something."

Bingo.
--------------------
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
I usually answer with "nothing" when I am really deep in my thoughts and look for a quick answer out.  Or when I'm doing something but I don't know how to define it.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
|
|
> "Well, by saying nothing you have just said something."
Mu
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: Seuss]
#7999401 - 02/09/08 08:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
if nothing is something, then everything is nothing.
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
|
MushroomTrip, surely this is the kind of application that we are accustomed to. I normally don't give it any conscious thought when I say it, most likely because it is very deeply ingrained in our language.
What I'm doing here is challenging nothing's representation of reality relative to the manner in which we commonly use the word.
Right now I am leaning towards the belief that we are possibly looking at a subtle fallacy in the English language, a kind of comically elusive phenomenon.
If somebody asks you what's up and you say nothing.
And I mean really say nothing-- not a single word.
Then somehow automatically, there is a problem perceived and the person will ask you
"What's wrong?"
I guess what I'm challenging here is whether the word nothing is really needed at all in the context of common conversation.
Why not be silent instead and read each other's eyes for clues of something.
How about just leaving nothing for what it is. 
Hmm...
--------------------
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Yes, I think it became an accepted fallacy. But imagine this: two people are talking, one of them looking out the window. He is being asked "what do you see?" and he answers "nothing". It's kind of the same thing. But what if those two people were waiting to see something, and that certain something didn't happen? What if the question was referring to that event? This entirely changes the situation. Maybe somewhere back on our minds we think about something when we answer with "nothing". We know what certain people expect from us or usually ask, and this "nothing" means in fact I'm doing nothing from what you expect me to do?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 9 hours
|
|
Not to mention nothing would be absolute zero which is not possible to obtain.
-------------------- ...or something
|
Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: eve69]
#8002443 - 02/09/08 08:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
kelvin?
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
|
Cubie
Moderator




Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8,840
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
AlteredAgain said: Someone asks you what's up and you say nothing.
"What, nothing? That is not possible."
"How so?"
"Well, by saying nothing you have just said something."

Bingo.
I'm guessing you were really fucking bored when you thought this
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: Cubie]
#8002582 - 02/09/08 09:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
AA seems above boredom to me, he was probably just really high and really present.
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: Middleman]
#8002706 - 02/09/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Yes I would have never thought about it if I was bored. In boredom all I can think about is boredom itself.
Always transcend the loop.
--------------------
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: eve69]
#8003681 - 02/10/08 04:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
> Not to mention nothing would be absolute zero which is not possible to obtain.
Might want to read up on Bose-Einstein Condensates before making such claims. 
From wiki:
Quote:
A Bose–Einstein condensate (BEC) is a state of matter of bosons confined in an external potential and cooled to temperatures very near to absolute zero (0 K or -273.15 °C). Under such supercooled conditions, a large fraction of the atoms collapse into the lowest quantum state of the external potential, at which point quantum effects become apparent on a macroscopic scale.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
Edited by Seuss (02/10/08 05:00 AM)
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 9 hours
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: Seuss]
#8003789 - 02/10/08 07:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Very near and absolute zero are two different things, like very near NYC can be Jersey or even California, depending upon framework.
-------------------- ...or something
|
Cubie
Moderator




Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8,840
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: eve69]
#8005164 - 02/10/08 03:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Imposability and nothing don't exist. Making them nothing. Making nothing exist, oh god thought loop. My futuramma brain is gonna explode
|
mushbaby
woodswalker




Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,645
Loc: in my own lil world
|
|
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Yes, I think it became an accepted fallacy. But imagine this: two people are talking, one of them looking out the window. He is being asked "what do you see?" and he answers "nothing". It's kind of the same thing. But what if those two people were waiting to see something, and that certain something didn't happen? What if the question was referring to that event? This entirely changes the situation. Maybe somewhere back on our minds we think about something when we answer with "nothing". We know what certain people expect from us or usually ask, and this "nothing" means in fact I'm doing nothing from what you expect me to do?
This made me dizzy. Let me take a break and try it again.
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: mushbaby]
#8015395 - 02/12/08 10:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Simplified, and in the context of having expectations, "nothing" means everything except what is expected.... 
That is what I got anyways.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8015529 - 02/12/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I read this really cool book called Unified Reality Theory. Wish I still had it because I would definitely recommend it.
In it the author mentions the idea that nothing and everything are really the same essence and what we know as somethings are points of awareness that emerge when we localize the ocean of no-thingness.
--------------------
|
Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
|
|
--------------------
"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
|
thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
|
|
well if someone lacks sense of smell and you ask what do they smell it would be nothing. In other words the inpreceivable by the body makes up nothing in human or anything living things existanence, and of course that does mean beyond their preception that nothing really is something. i dont believe there is a true nothing only limited preception. and oh for some word play "nothing in is just a bunch of non-sense and thats all it is"
so yeah as long as preception exists its impossible for nothing to even begin to exist aside from the fact that nothing is nothingness in it self which is something and we do have the word nothing for it so it cant really be nothing. the non existant is more true then nothing. cause there are alot of non exististing things tho its very possible in the future that they might exist or have existed before us or only in an idea cause peoples imginations come up with some crazy shit and not all of it is shared or even known to others ever. and this kinda goes back to the novelty theory of mc kenna, we are just expressions of novelties thats all
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Edited by thedudenj (02/13/08 08:52 AM)
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
|
Here is what Osho had to say about this wonderfully elusive subject.
Being 'in the gap' can be disorienting and even scary. Nothing to hold on to, no sense of direction, not even a hint of what choices and possibilities might lie ahead. But it was just this state of pure potential that existed before the universe was created. All you can do now is to relax into this nothingness. . .fall into this silence between the words. . .watch this gap between the outgoing and incoming breath. And treasure each empty moment of the experience. Something sacred is about to be born. Buddha has chosen one of the really very potential words - shunyata. The English word, the English equivalent, 'nothingness', is not such a beautiful word. That's why I would like to make it 'no-thingness' - because the nothing is not just nothing, it is all. It is vibrant with all possibilities. It is potential, absolute potential. It is unmanifest yet, but it contains all. In the beginning is nature, in the end is nature, so why in the middle do you make such a fuss? Why, in the middle, becoming so worried, so anxious, so ambitious - why create such despair?Nothing to nothingness is the whole journey. 
--------------------
|
thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
|
|
well i still see nothing as something non existant and what you speak of as something that is very real and is exactly what you described i think we should have a better word for that then nothingness cause its description is far off from what it appears tho that does give it a bit of alure calling it nothing but everything lol. I really could never consider that nothing but might say nothing so people are alured tho.
i think its more so endless possibility or potential. PE(potential energy) vs KE(kenetic energy) going back to middle school physics.
yeah... so im sticking with nothing is something entirely differnt that doesnt really exisit only in thought which does in it self make it something, which then leads to the path you chose for it. my question is why does nothing have to be pitch black like in that card ? why not totally white. why is there this darkness as an expression of nothing. Why not a clean sheet so to say. or maybe its the transfromation of that into the white sheet that leads to mad colors and shit. so in other words im really calling you out on this one think this kinda stuff helps other people get an understanding of each of ours and helps them form their own but thats just my
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: thedudenj]
#8022157 - 02/14/08 12:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thedudenj said: my question is why does nothing have to be pitch black like in that card ? why not totally white. why is there this darkness as an expression of nothing. Why not a clean sheet so to say. or maybe its the transfromation of that into the white sheet that leads to mad colors and shit.
Not sure what the artist was thinking.. But I wouldn't see it making any difference if the card was white. In absolute form black and white are both the same. 
Because how would you tell white from black if you had nothing to compare it to?
In complete darkness all is bright. In complete brightness all is dark. It's a sweet paradox I think.
--------------------
|
thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
|
|
good answer
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: thedudenj]
#8022216 - 02/14/08 12:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
It's funny when I'm laying in bed at night during a new moon and I notice my room turning into complete darkness. At times I can manage to focus my eyes in a certain way that allows me to see a flash of this paradox. For a moment I am surrounded by this white infinite space until my rational mind tells me that there is no light source in the room which pulls me back into the black field of vision. I might have to try this on mushrooms sometime.
--------------------
|
thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
|
|
oh yeah man i do that to you kinda gota un focus and lay still and dive into the complete light. one of the best things for doing that is DXM/O. cause this dissociative properties, it makes it so much easier to let go of everything else. doing it on mushrooms is a bit different tho and sometimes on dxm too. when you get more advanced you can astral project and hold normal vision as well as other worldly vision, on separate Fields of vision. Its the the principals of open eye meditation. with the kinda energy i use i only kinda sample skills and pick up ones here and there and i master them but they are only temporary when i get that energy again tho from someone else i can use the skill no problem. i also teach people how to get to the level at their own skill that i do if they arnt there already. its a neat job in life.
with my tea circle tho its more then tea and kinda more then a circle if anyone does magic everyone feels it and they have a choice to join or ignore it. which is cool cause you get alot of random trips at random hours. and things can get very synced at times, i could tell someone something happened to me then the next they it happen to them. I guess its unifying vibes and im assuming 2012 will cause a rise of this its basic novelty. i think 2012 is gona happen like that cause all the hype about it and people like me doing what im doing and laying that ground as its been said would happen. for something to ever truly happen theres obviously the things that lead up to it, no matter how random and seemingly not coincidental but from there you must look at what a true coincidence is to coincide To occupy the same relative position or the same area in space. To happen at the same time or during the same period. To correspond exactly; be identical. To agree exactly, as in opinion; concur.
and of course coincidence tho i like to think co in (cid) dance or something. puns lol A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged. tee hee kinda like sex sometimes you end up in bed with a girl totally unplanned and other times it takes alot of planning, in other words "the river flows, flows to the sea and thats the way it had to be." from ballad of easy rider lol. its a great example two friends made that movie and smoked real pot in the filming it really questions whats real and whats acting in it. Its great when friends make low budget movies of the stuff we talk about on here. the other night i couldnt tell if my friend was just fucking with me or not and neither could his girl friend it was so mad. so much mind fucking. on a harsher note a friend of mine was ready to kill himself over a similar matter where i appeared to him as an eastern diety come to kill him cause he was a demon. this fellow was plauged by a demon and i killed it. tho he revived it cause he couldnt live with out wanting to have that demon be him and part of him. in other words he couldnt come to terms with him self it was really rought and i hope somewhere down the road he realizes the significance of our jounrnies he was on a dark downward spiral and atleast hes out of the dark and also going upward now its just that hes so deep in. yeah lol medicine man talk.
any who well thats not exactly the lyric btw but the whole song has that kinda point to it.
and i guess another example of the whole time wave zero thing is the internet as we are this huge one being made of many small ones interaction like cells in a body, we just dont communicate in the same fashion and the reason for that is so there can be all the emotions and meaning to all this life. The river flows It flows to the sea Wherever that river goes That's where I want to be Flow river flow Let your waters wash down Take me from this road To some other town
All he wanted Was to be free And that's the way It turned out to be Flow river flow Let your waters wash down Take me from this road To some other town
Flow river flow Past the shaded tree Go river, go Go to the sea Flow to the sea
The river flows It flows to the sea Wherever that river goes That's where I want to be Flow river flow Let your waters wash down Take me from this road To some other town
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Edited by thedudenj (02/14/08 12:49 PM)
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: On Nothingness [Re: thedudenj]
#8022515 - 02/14/08 01:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I have some deep intuitions about the things you speak of but you did touch on so many points at once that I don't quite know where to begin now. 
There is a fascination that I share about experiencing synchronistic connections between individuals in a group network such as your tea circle. I myself have only felt magic spontaneously between one person, sometimes two others, but never have I experienced the possibilities of a group ceremony. Maybe I didn't have the chance, perhaps my heart hasn't seeked it out. But if you get one together next time around, let me know and I'll come join because I'd like to see the action with my own eyes. 
2012012012012012012012012012, if anything, I'm quite sure that this networking of minds is the metaphor for this time. At times I think people will try to grasp it as if they got to use their hands, but it slips away because the reminder is that the central tool for this is not our limbs.. not our body, but our minds: language, thought, and frequency of awareness. It's about tuning in and recognizing common subjectivity with others.
My 2 cents for now. I'm not in the mood to dig any deeper at the moment.
--------------------
|
thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
|
|
oh its ok man i hear you on that sometimes tho lol. yeah i tend to touch a bit of a few things as yage man said my writing is kinda collective you gota pick up pieces here and there and slowly or quickly it will form something else but really its the same thing. Fred alan wolf said that to understand and get the effect of a shaman you need to sorta hang out with me and you just pick it up.(in shamanic physics you can look it up but no longer on youtube) he also spoke in what the bleep about the double slip experiment. i kinda like that guy hes funny, tho im a medicine man theres a differance not much tho more so location and what sacraments.
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
|
|