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Viveka
refutation bias
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#7990263 - 02/07/08 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
My preference for Aenima and Undertow lies somewhere in the singing, mostly. There was something unpretentious and organic about it that seemed to be gone in Lateralus. Hard to put my finger on it.
I know just what you mean. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that up through Aenima, Maynard was focused on TOOL exclusively. When Adam Danny and Justin were writing Lateralus, Maynard was off doing APC, then he came in later and wrote his parts over what had already been laid down instrumentally. When I listen to The Grudge I can just imagine Maynard bobbing around in a room listening to the already mostly completed tune and coming up with something to lay over the top of it.
The thing that kinda bugged me when Lateralus came out was how everyone gushed especially about Parabol/a. It was pretty good but it was the most straight ahead rock thing they had ever done and wasn't nearly as unique or labrynthian as the The Patient or Lateralus or something and I also didn't like how the lower chorus came across the first time sung in the lower octave. Didn't sound right and more evidence of the disconnect of Maynard from the writing process.
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Viveka
refutation bias
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7990267 - 02/07/08 02:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dude, I got into the Tool/KC comparison with you years ago and you totally copped out when I asked you to back your position up with actual comparisons between specific Tool and KC songs. You also had a strange way of speaking of Maynard as if he WAS Tool. I can dig up the link to the thread if you like and perhaps you can take up where you left off.
Both bands use odd and compound times a lot but beyond that the two bands are really not that similar at all. You can't compare Adam and Fripp's styles, nothing alike(and Adam really ain't much next to Fripp). Danny and Billy are both choice, unique drummers, Carey is admittedly influenced by Bruford but his style is quite different. You can't compare D'amour or Chancellor's bass playing to Wetton or Levin's to any convincing degree, except that maybe some of Chancellors distortion sounds like some of Wetton's big swells, but that's nothing to speak of and you sure as shit can't compare Lake, Wetton or Belew to Maynard.
Aesthetically, the bands really don't have a lot in common. I'm still convinced the only reason you are making this argument is because of Maynard's quote in 2000 that KC was "basically the band we've been ripping off" over the years or however it went. But when you consider that the guy talks out his ass constantly that doesn't mean much.
When I hear In the Court or In the Wake or Islands, I don't think of Opiate or Undertow. When I listen to Starless or Larks' Tongues, it sure doesn't sound much like Aenima or Lateralus and when I listen to the 3 80's albums (my favorite material) it doesn't sound a damn thing like anything in the Tool catalogue, but I start thinking, I could go, "hey, this part in Neil and Jack and Me kinda reminds me a bit of that one bar in Schism that goes..." but so fucking what? It could be a minor similarity that pretty much goes with the territory of prog rock or completely erroneous on my part, a product of aberrant analyticisms. I'm glad Danny was influenced strongly by KC instead of The Beatles or some other now cliche rock shit that you wouldn't even hear the distillation of through today's bands because the original was so impotent by comparison.
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lavod
Seal Whisperer
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5,452
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: Viveka]
#7992962 - 02/07/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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93 Well said Viveka. As I've previously said, the final outcome of the music evoked is only one aspect of another band's influence. I feel that Tool shares KC's overall vision of music expressed as audible art. They share the discipline and dedication required for such a feat. Some playing styles can be compared(moreso with the later kc incarnations imo, i.e. Jones is closer to Belew than Fripp, danny closer to Pat). Yet, the music that you hear is radically different.
I've listened to Red, Yawninganus, many times, in fact the album is a foot and a half from my head as we type. I've also heard most of the kc albums, Fripp's work with Eno, seen fripp and belew as p6 with porcupine tree, as well as attending a league of crafty guitarists gig(front row mind you:)). Yet, I still carry the above stated perception. Musically speaking, the only band that has ever reminded me of Tool in the slightest degree(sans a Balance/Keenan connection), and this is a big stretch, is Coil. 93 93/93
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger
Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: lavod]
#7993226 - 02/07/08 07:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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wtf is this 93 stuff?
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manyc
♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 571
Loc: Axis Mundi
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7993319 - 02/07/08 07:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The first time I tripped on acid for 12 hours me and a group of 6 other people listened to the Lateralus album probably 3 entire times. Tool helped guide me through the incredible turmoil of naively taking 4 hits of really good acid your first time. The Patient really got to me, though..
"Is this a test? It has to be... Otherwise I can't go on."
It's ridiculous to base your liking of a band on whether or not it sounds like its roots or not. The point is not to mimic the ones who influenced you, but to take it and use it to create something of your own. I certainly believe Tool succeeded in this respect.
A band is not about the members or the image. It's about the music; the art. All of the members of Tool make this clear in the handful interviews they've done.
I hate when people get all worked up over music. It's like arguing semantics most of the time - futile and biased.
Honestly, after going to the two Tool concerts I've been to, I often think about just how many of their die-hard fans are tools themselves.
-------------------- Hemp could Save the World. "There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian Know Thyself. "If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence Mckenna
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger
Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: manyc]
#7993342 - 02/07/08 07:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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werd cuz music is subjective?
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whatsgrimace
Stranger
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 5,239
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7993372 - 02/07/08 07:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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All extreme fanboys are generally annoying, but I think Tool's are some of the worst... It's too bad, because they're a great band.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: Viveka]
#7993379 - 02/07/08 07:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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well, you were right that I did bitch out on that last thread, mostly because I didnt feel like downloading, or ripping songs from both tool and KC and then going through more exhausting task of uploading them on here... this was also before the upload limit was increased. I dont think you can look at the "musical stylings" of individual musicians when comparing two bands.... it doesnt really make sense to me. I dont know what to tell you about listening to certain songs and not hearing what I am talking about... which is another reason I kind of just dropped the last thread.. pure incredulity (word?). of course the playing styles arent the same, nobody from Tool has half the chops that KC does. I think a lot of you are also trying to say that because Tool hasnt completely stolen entire bridges, melodies and such from KC that my position has no legs. I will say that my previous position from the last thread was rather harsh... but Im not talking about just influenced or inspired. Tool is less talented musicians, playing the less talented version of one aspect of KCs feel. Just listen to the album Power to Believe, and the song level 5... while even though that record was made in the late 90's/early 2000, which is post Tool releases, one of the main focuses of that album was to craete a more poppier sound and at times poke fun of new age prog/metal bands which is evidenced by the song "Happy with what you have to be happy with". but even when KC tries to dumb down they still pull of the epic/dark feel much better than Tool, IMO.
And when I have some words This is the way I'll sing Through a distortion box To make them menacing
Yeah, then I'm gonna have to write a chorus We're gonna need to have a chorus And this seems to be as good as any other place to sing it till I'm blue in the face
And for a second verse Of terse economy I'll brew another pot Of ambiguity
Then I'm gonna have to write a chorus We're gonna need to have a chorus And this seems to be as good as any other place to sing it till I'm blue in the face Yes, we're gonna need to have a chorus I'm gonna have to write a chorus And this seems to be as good as any other place to sing it till I'm blue in the face
Happy with what you have to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have, happy with what you have to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have to be happy with what you have you have to be happy with what you have to happy with
Then I guess I'll repeat the chorus! We're gonna repeat the chorus! I guess I'll repeat the chorus! We're gonna repeat the chorus! Then I guess I'll repeat the chorus! We're gonna repeat the chorus! I guess I'll repeat the chorus! We're gonna repeat the chorus!
Happy with what you have to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have, happy with what you have to be happy with you have to be happy with what you have to be happy with what you have you have to be happy with what you have to happy with
but anyway, getting off topic here...
about the quote you posted, the first and only time I have heard that was from that last thread we had, so this really isnt spawned from what Maynard said, believe it or not I dont hang on every word he says like some of his Tools.
of course most of the 80's stuff isnt a good indicator of hat I am talking about, because KC has far more depth and diversity than Tool will ever have... but even Three of a Perfect Pair is very remeniscent of maynards vocal melodic phrasing and texture. the song structure and idea are basically the same, but the only difference I see is that they have a revised version of KC and put different "eyebrows" on it.
I mean, even look at the lyrics. she is susceptible he is impossible they have their cross to share three of a perfect pair... he has his contradicting views she has her cyclothymic moods they make a study in despair three of a perfect pair...
one, one too many schizophrenic tendencies keeps it complicated keeps it agggravated and full of this hopelessness what a perfect mess...
I mean, can you honestly say that you dont hear Tool salivating at that song? seriously sing it, and think how Maynard would sing that song. it wouldnt be that far from the original song. I mean, the opening melody to schism is so close to Trey Gunn's warr guitar style... even the tone. I could go on and on, but im not because I cant make you see it if you dont want to.
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whatsgrimace
Stranger
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 5,239
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7994102 - 02/07/08 09:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, Maynard himself was quoted as having said, "I have a feeling kids are going to come and hear King Crimson and go, fuck Tool ripped these guys off blind."
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: whatsgrimace]
#7997126 - 02/08/08 05:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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bump.
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 2,293
Loc: Chicago
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Re: 10 Reasons why us TOOL fans like them soo much. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7997885 - 02/08/08 08:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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A song is a song dude. Of course Maynard would sing it quite the same as KC does because that's the way the song IS. You can't just say stuff like that. I agree that there is definitely some huge similarities between the two bands but, in the end, they are not even close to each other. They are only of the same genre at most, if at all. If anything KC reminds me more of the Moody Blues than anything, aside from the unique time signatures. Don't get me wrong though, I do like it.
And by the way, I thank you all for your awesome insight to this post. A lot of good stuff is discussed in here. And I like the criticisms of Maynardists. Some good shit. lol
Quote:
Middleman said: I'm fanatical about the music not the musicians.
well said!...
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