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InvisibleMankey
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Sealer
    #7991069 - 02/07/08 12:35 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

This guy finally arrived in the mail. 12" seal up to 2mm thick

I can finally start using spawn bags right instead of burning the ends (Which, I might add, has NEVER been successful.)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #7991111 - 02/07/08 12:48 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I prefer tie wire over sealers. It allows me to open the bag later for fae, and also to re-use the bags.
RR


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Sealer [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7991121 - 02/07/08 12:49 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

See, whenever I do that, I somehow end up with contamination. I've been careful on all levels, including using tyvk sleeves inside the bags while pcing.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #7991301 - 02/07/08 01:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting I've yet to lose a substrate bag with that method after several thousand. When you remove the bag from the PC, it should have a vacuum in it. I have a bag sitting right now as a test, that was PC'd before I made my DVD last winter. The only seal is the tyvek sleeve, and it's still contaminant free. If you seal the bags prior to sterilization, you run a huge risk of the bag exploding in the pressure cooker as it cools.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Sealer [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7991398 - 02/07/08 02:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

True, true. I would never seal it before sterilization. I try to follow your video's method to the point. I think one of my problems is that I can never find hardwood sawdust. The dust from the mills is always mixed together whenever I go down there so I just end up using soaked hickory chips, wheat bran, and gypsum. I'm wondering if I could use some of that aspen pet bedding (additive free). All I wanted for valentines day was some herecium :frown:


Edited by Mankey (02/07/08 02:08 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #7991597 - 02/07/08 02:53 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You can use the bedding, but it should be ground up into coarse sawdust sized pieces first.

Do your bags come out of the pressure cooker tightly sealed with a vacuum? Make sure if using this method that you use a PC and not a sterilizer. A sterilizer will pull a vacuum in the chamber itself, which will prevent the bags from forming their own vacuum. The result is they may contaminate when you open the sterilizer. A PC allows air to enter as it cools, thus the pressure around the bags is higher than the pressure inside the bags and a vacuum forms where you want it.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Sealer [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7991877 - 02/07/08 04:07 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, granted it's not the best pressure cooker around it says pressure canner and cooker on the instruction book. It's a presto (All American's redheaded step cousin). There is definitely a vacuum when I open it up. I usually leave the bags in there for around 3 hours just to make sure I'm leaving enough time for the pressure to equalize.

Thanks for the help.


Edited by Mankey (02/07/08 04:08 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #7991949 - 02/07/08 04:27 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

As long as there's a vacuum in the bags themselves when you open them, the contaminant is entering after that point.

If you meant to say the vacuum is developing in the PC itself, do whatever is necessary to prevent that from happening. Remove the weight or something just as zero psi is reached.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Sealer [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7992103 - 02/07/08 05:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, thats what I meant to say.


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Offlinejung
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #8000868 - 02/09/08 06:21 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Nice sealer. Looks just like mine, which recently went missing...in the house somewhere.

Some areas are more contaminant prone than others. I remember reading in the TMG how some ops can use crude methods of sanitation yet have surprisingly low contamination rates, whereas some high-tech facilities are plagued with problems.

Anyways, I have those pre0sealable bags. How is it that the bags will explode while cooling? I would think they would implode. Am I missing something?


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8001056 - 02/09/08 06:53 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

the rapid cooling causes condensation/lots of steam, which inflates the bag, least thats the way i understand it.

The first time i cooked a presealed bag, i opened the cooker right away and it inflated within seconds throwing my paper clips off. After that i decided to put a jar/can rack ontop my bags.

now I always seal my bags before pc'ing with paper clips, and then set my rack jar ontop of my bags, i always wait about 10-20 minutes before opening my cooker, and ive' never had a bag explode before but can see how it could happen.


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Sealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #8001199 - 02/09/08 07:12 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Paper clips huh? Good idea. I'm gonna try that next time... too bad I ordered from the site that must not be named who was recently named a non-sponsor.... they have my cultures backordered. :crankey:


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #8002104 - 02/09/08 09:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

so backorder your money


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #8002180 - 02/09/08 09:50 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

When time expires and you shut off the stove, your bags are at 15psi, just like the PC is at 15psi, therefore there is no pressure differential between them.

As the PC cools, being exposed to the ambient air, it loses pressure faster than the substrate in your bags can cool. Thus, the PC is at 10 pounds for example, while the substrate bags might still be near 250F, thus still trying to maintain 15psi. The result is the bags swell up and often burst.

After they all cool down, the substrate in the bags shrinks, thus forming a vacuum in the bags, provided they're allowed to vent when there's a positive pressure differential.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisibledesertturtle
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Re: Sealer [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8002246 - 02/09/08 10:05 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Seems like a pain to use bags. I simply use big pickle jars with polyfill and RTV injection ports. No need to invest in a sealer. What are the advantages with bags other than being able to moosh things around for faster colonization?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sealer [Re: desertturtle]
    #8002933 - 02/10/08 12:23 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Large spawn bags hold more material, and they can be packed easier in to the PC, thus making better use of your available pressure cooker space. An AA921 holds ten quart jars, but each jar has less than a quart of material. The same PC can sterilze twice or more as much material when using spawn bags.

In addition, when sterilizing sawdust/woodchips, jars become a real pain in the rear. With spawn bags, you can easily make five to seven pound sawdust blocks for shiitake, oysters, etc.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinejung
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Re: Sealer [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8003111 - 02/10/08 01:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I see. A plastic bag exploding substrate sounds fun, like a gag to play on an unsuspecting friend.

The bags are supposedly pre-sealable though. Something with the filter being able to accommodate more gas exchange. Are these still unable to provide rapid air exchange to prevent bursting? My PC instructions say to cool it in cold water, but given what I've read, it might not be the best idea when using pre-sealed bags. Still, I'm going to try it anyways just to see.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8003163 - 02/10/08 01:31 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

your instructions say to put a hot pressure cooker in cold water?

if its cast aluminum it will crack, im not sure what would happen to stainless steel but i can't imagine it would be good fo rit


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Sealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #8004281 - 02/10/08 01:33 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
so backorder your money




Did yesterday.


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Offlinejung
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Re: Sealer [Re: Mankey]
    #8004737 - 02/10/08 03:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

it's pretty crazy. the cold water starts sizzling and steaming but the pc is ok so far. i think it's made out of aluminum. i posted a pic of it in one of my threads.


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Offlinejung
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8006428 - 02/10/08 10:38 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i just saw them do it on the iron chef too. they put the pressure cooker under running tap water to cool it faster.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8008827 - 02/11/08 03:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

yah i just thought I remembered reading not to do it with cast aluminum in my manuel, so who knows


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (02/11/08 03:29 PM)


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Offlinejung
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8008976 - 02/11/08 04:16 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

maybe it's steel, i don't know. it just feels like aluminum.

here's my impulse sealer. look familiar? all that dust - it's been years



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Offlinejung
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8029319 - 02/15/08 11:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i just made a sawdust bag today. sealed it and pc'd it. i think the pc might be stainless steel. anyways, the bag didn't explode. i put tap water over the pc after it cooled like 20 min. it sizzled and everything but everything was fine.

the sealer didn't completely work though. water smears near the seam go over to the other sides. that means the seal isn't complete. so maybe do it longer?

thing is, mine's also got 12 inches to work with but the large bags seem too big. so i seal it twice so there's a point at the criss-cross that gets two sealings. so if i put it higher, that point is liable to melt. maybe get medium size bags?


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Sealer [Re: jung]
    #8029333 - 02/15/08 11:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i got some large bags ill go measure mine and see how big they are


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Re: Sealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #8029379 - 02/15/08 11:49 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

my bag is 7 inchs, my bags are large filter bags, and they have creases at the top i fold them in and get 7 inches.

however, ive never used a sealer before, 3 layers might be to much?

even so, i opened my bag all the way up so its only 2 layers and i get a little over 11 inches,-> rough measurements thow

i would just experiment at the "very" top of your bag, if you mess up and melt it you can just cut it off and move down


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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