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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War
    #7988419 - 02/06/08 09:17 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I agree with 100% of what Barack Obama said in this speech.. You can say what you want about having a slavering devotion to a party and how I must been a brainwashed sheep.

Barack Obama makes me hot.

Quote:

2002
Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don’t oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not – we will not – travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.




--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineTheCow
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Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7988692 - 02/06/08 09:51 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I think his campaign has been fucking up on some major points. He hasn't stressed that he was anti-war from the beginning and that he doesn't take corporate money while Hillary bathes in it. He brings it up, but where are the attack ads? Ah how I love the attack ads


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7989599 - 02/07/08 12:35 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

The fact that this race between Cliton and Obama made me regret
regeristing Republican for the closed primaries....but only a
little bit.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7989734 - 02/07/08 01:08 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I wish all of his speeches were that well written.

Good stuff. :thumbup:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: zorbman]
    #7991019 - 02/07/08 12:15 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I pine for having a man this articulate in the White House. Obama's the shit  :yesnod:


--------------------


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Registered: 12/21/00
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: TheCow]
    #7991036 - 02/07/08 12:21 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
I think his campaign has been fucking up on some major points. He hasn't stressed that he was anti-war from the beginning and that he doesn't take corporate money while Hillary bathes in it. He brings it up, but where are the attack ads? Ah how I love the attack ads




Are you serious? He brings these things up every 15 minutes.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/18/06
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: afoaf]
    #7991766 - 02/07/08 03:36 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I know exactly what you mean.


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OfflineTheCow
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Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7992191 - 02/07/08 05:17 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Ive never seen any ad bring that up. Ive seen him bring up the money issue I believe one time in a debate recently. He might have brought it up more, but I think it should be stressed harder.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7993100 - 02/07/08 08:42 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

OK, I'll fisk this stupid populist, socialist diatribe of relentless bullshit

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I agree with 100% of what Barack Obama said in this speech.. You can say what you want about having a slavering devotion to a party and how I must been a brainwashed sheep.

Barack Obama makes me hot.

Quote:

2002
Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don’t oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove (OOOOOOOH the boogeyman) to distract us from a rise in the uninsured (nonexistent and irrelevant), a rise in the poverty rate (nonexistent and irrelevant), a drop in the median income (nonexistent and irrelevant)– to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. (Also untrue, irrelevant and far more the product of the Clinton nothingness than anything else)

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.(Politics and principle are not mutually exclusive. In fact they are intricately entwined. I wonder what he thinks politics are. He is pandering to fools)

Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.( well this is a happy fantasy that conveniently ignores several facts, the most germane being that they had successfully bribed the UN, France Russia and probably some others to END SANCTIONS. Do we really want a naive tool like this running the show?)

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.(My next trip to the supermarket is of indeterminate length and cost and I'm not quite sure what I'll be bringing home. This is the plea of a child who thinks that everything must be assured) I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale(There was a pretty clear one for almost the whole world. Some may not think it was enough but none denied it's existence. Except stupid here) and without strong international support(50 nations and repeated UN resolutions notwithstanding, there was no international support. Yep, none at all seeing as how Burkina Faso and the bribed weren't on board) will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.(OOOOOH the big meanies. Let's surrender. He will get killed for this in the election)

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.(OK. Concrete legislation from this warrior amounted to......none. Way to go, blowhole.)

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.(Wow, just fucking wow. The only way to stop these people from using their weapons is to threaten worse if they do. Or sing Cumbaya. I don't need no Cumbaya president)

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.(Wonderful. Just how would you like to do that? Invade them? Beg them? Thanks for your thoughts now please don't loose the shovel in the sandbox Barry)

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.(So now he wants to eliminate publicly owned corporate profits? The rock upon which all non Ponzi pension schemes are built on? And yet, one wonders what his position on ANWAR and offshore drilling is. Well, one might, but I'm not that one. Barry says NO)

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not – we will not – travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.(Not in vain, Barry, if you let the adults finish the job without your endless encouragement of the enemy. Thanks for your support you stupid twat.)







--------------------


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7993212 - 02/07/08 08:59 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

a rise in the poverty rate (nonexistent and irrelevant)




Between 2000 and 2005, both total in poverty and the poverty rate increased. I don't have 2005-2008, but I'd wager the trend continues.



http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p60-231.pdf

Quote:

(Also untrue, irrelevant and far more the product of the Clinton nothingness than anything else)




Since when do economic policies lag 8 years? I'm going to need a source for this claim.

Quote:

(OK. Concrete legislation from this warrior amounted to......none. Way to go, blowhole.)




Politicians don't draft legislation in speeches.

Quote:

So now he wants to eliminate publicly owned corporate profits?




Reading comprehension: live it, love it. He never said that.

Quote:

Thanks for your support you stupid twat




Opinions are like assholes and opinions are all you just contributed.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: Redstorm]
    #7993270 - 02/07/08 09:07 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

a rise in the poverty rate (nonexistent and irrelevant)




Between 2000 and 2005, both total in poverty and the poverty rate increased. I don't have 2005-2008, but I'd wager the trend continues.



http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p60-231.pdf

Quote:

(Also untrue, irrelevant and far more the product of the Clinton nothingness than anything else)




Since when do economic policies lag 8 years? I'm going to need a source for this claim.

Quote:

(OK. Concrete legislation from this warrior amounted to......none. Way to go, blowhole.)




Politicians don't draft legislation in speeches.

Quote:

So now he wants to eliminate publicly owned corporate profits?




Reading comprehension: live it, love it. He never said that.

Quote:

Thanks for your support you stupid twat




Opinions are like assholes and opinions are all you just contributed.




The speech was in 2002. He never drafted any legislation. He demonized corporations because they, shudder, made profits, a favorite dodge of socialist retards. And median real income increased steadily since 2001. "Poverty" rate is a product of whatever glasses you're wearing.


--------------------


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7993278 - 02/07/08 09:08 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

And should I believe this because you say so?


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Offlinevintage_gonzo
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Registered: 04/08/06
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7993693 - 02/07/08 10:16 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.( well this is a happy fantasy that conveniently ignores several facts, the most germane being that they had successfully bribed the UN, France Russia and probably some others to END SANCTIONS. Do we really want a naive tool like this running the show?)

And what would have happened if the sanctions had ended? Was the threat of no sanctions worth over a trillion dollars of our money and 4000+ lives? If you would remember, after the initial war started we found out that Saddam DID NOT pose an imminent and direct threat to America and the Iraqi military was barely able to keep control over its own people. Sounds like the whole thing was a fuck-up, no matter how you try and spin it.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Barack Obama's Speech Before the Beginning of the Iraq War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7995650 - 02/08/08 12:16 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Could you explain the (non-existant and irrelevant) specifically applied to a rise in the uninsured?


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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