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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineShroomDoom
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Registered: 06/07/04
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The ethics of mass extinction.
    #7987710 - 02/06/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

70% of biologists view the present era as part of a mass extinction event. now there is even fossil evidence to prove that the current constraint humans are placing on the biosphere is going to result in a mass extinction:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071024083644.htm

i hate to be pessimistic, but i think we're almost to that point where its too late to do anything about it. sure we could drastically reduce our wastes and impacts, but what good would that do? we could maybe slow it down, but could we stop what has already been set in motion.? herein lies the philosophical question : is it wrong then to do nothing about it? a single person's effort does nothing to outweigh the damage done by the masses, so is there even a point in trying? can you call me a murderer or a rapist of the land if i do nothing but continue my comfortable way of life, and just watch the world die?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #7987789 - 02/06/08 05:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

can you call me a murderer or a rapist of the land if i do nothing but continue my comfortable way of life, and just watch the world die?




No.

We are not "supposed" to do anything.
In the same time I believe that it's more preferable to become aware, sentient and caring about life and this planet's well being. Enjoying nature and natural and caring for them comes when we realize that they make us feel good. But then again, some people feel good as consumers.
Both of these actions are driven by the same impulse: pleasure. :tongue:
So how do you determine which one is "best"?
If your intention is to preserve the planet, you can only do it on your own (or find people with similar preferences and join powers). But still, it doesn't mean that this is the best way for everybody.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7988390 - 02/06/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Although I agree that at this point, alot of the damage has been done, there's also a great deal of evidence that if left to her own devices, the planet has a remarkable capacity to heal. If we stopped pumping the atmosphere with Co2, the climate change crisis would be far less devastating than if we continued on in the direction we're going.

Quote:

Original post: Sure we could drastically reduce our wastes and impacts, but what good would that do? we could maybe slow it down, but could we stop what has already been set in motion.?




Drastically reducing our impact would have the benefit of drastically reducing our impact. That seems to be the rational goal .

As for the ethical element, I believe that yes, it's wrong to do nothing about it. This assumes the premise that it is desirable to protect the environment for either future generations, for it's own sake, or both. I think that a contender would be hard pressed to come up with a convincing argument against this premise.

Quote:

MushroomTrip:
So how do you determine which one is "best"?




Weigh the benefits and consequences of both sides.

On one hand there is the short term pleasure of temporary wealth and enjoyment for a minority of the world's current population, with the consequence of inevitably massive degrees of suffering in the near future.

On the other hand there is reconsidering our priorities and living more simply yet still quite well. Producing fewer usurious throwaway consumer items and ensuring that there is "as much as as good" leftover for the wellbeing of our children and thier children after them.

The second option is 'best' for the greatest number of people and for the generations to come, while the former is only 'best' for the small percentage of people who are already wealthy and is bad for many more people right here and now.

I think it's quite obvious that drastically reducing our ecological footprint is more desireable in the long term, and even in the short term, than continuing on our current trajectory.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #7989072 - 02/06/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i hate to be pessimistic,

I know how you feel. Still I think you're being realistic considering the emotional advancement of the human species to this point.

I suggest trying to enjoy what is left that feels good, don't procreate (if you want to do something constructive) and buy a fiddle and take a couple of lessons. You should be ready for anything.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/06/08 08:51 PM)


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: Icelander]
    #7989097 - 02/06/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You should be ready for anything.


:thumbup:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleUbermensch
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Registered: 11/27/06
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Loc: Pac Northwest
Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: Icelander]
    #7990258 - 02/07/08 02:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You should be ready for anything.




Thats why I'm going to find a quiet corner of the world.

What makes not acting to better the problem wrong is the assumption that you care about other humans and the environment. I want to care about humanity as a whole, but its driving itself in the wrong direction. The result of us fucking up is a response from nature thats going to be brutal. Will we deserve it? Absolutely. When we are gone life will run its course, albeit a different one, just as it has for billions of years.

It may or may not be morally wrong to drive SUV's, clear cut the private land you own, or buy jewelry, but it sure as hell is distasteful.


--------------------
Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God has died, and those sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful sin, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth!


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: Ubermensch]
    #7990851 - 02/07/08 09:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thats why I'm going to find a quiet corner of the world.


Too late, all the quiet corners are being sought out by folk such as yourself and as soon as you get sight of each other you will start to disagree about just about everything and make a god awful racket and the authorities will have to step in to establish order.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7990852 - 02/07/08 09:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

On one hand there is the short term pleasure of temporary wealth and enjoyment for a minority of the world's current population, with the consequence of inevitably massive degrees of suffering in the near future.




Quantity is not always quality.
Also, what do you mean with "minority"? From what I know the majority of people are supporting consumerism (composed of producers, sellers, buyers, promoters...)

Quote:

On the other hand there is reconsidering our priorities and living more simply yet still quite well. Producing fewer usurious throwaway consumer items and ensuring that there is "as much as as good" leftover for the wellbeing of our children and thier children after them.

The second option is 'best' for the greatest number of people and for the generations to come, while the former is only 'best' for the small percentage of people who are already wealthy and is bad for many more people right here and now. 




Incidentally I agree with you that we can live more simply and still well.
However, others don't share the same opinion.
What's there to do? Impose our will on them? Personally I don't like this idea. :shrug:
Also, do I have the duty of caring for the future generations which will inhabit this planet? I don't think so. If I (again incidentally) DO care, it is because it was my choice, not because I HAD to.

Quote:

I think it's quite obvious that drastically reducing our ecological footprint is more desireable in the long term, and even in the short term, than continuing on our current trajectory.




"More desirable" is something different than saying that saying it is ethical.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: Icelander]
    #7991144 - 02/07/08 10:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Thats why I'm going to find a quiet corner of the world.


Too late, all the quiet corners are being sought out by folk such as yourself and as soon as you get sight of each other you will start to disagree about just about everything and make a god awful racket and the authorities will have to step in to establish order.




:lol:


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OfflineWScott
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Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
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Re: The ethics of mass extinction. [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #7993601 - 02/07/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"Of all the teachings we receive, this one is the most important. Nothing belongs to you. Of what there is, of what you take, you must share. The land belongs to the Creator. We look after it for our grandchildren’s grandchildren.

Treat the Earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

We were given this most beautiful place, with all the things in it for us to live and exist. We are to look after it. The men to look after the animals to make sure that they sustain. Women to look after the water to make sure that the water is pure." ~Aboriginal Expression

Do what you need to do. If something inside you feels like you're part of what you see as the problem (a gear in that material consumption machine), only you can change that. You're not the only one that feels the way you do by the way.


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