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OfflineDigital Reality
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Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!!
    #7986183 - 02/06/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don’t effin get it. I’ve tried over and over again, using different methods to prepare, rye, wbs, and popcorn once. I’ve tried soaking then PC'in, Soaking, simmering, and pc'ing grain that’s slightly wet, grain that’s fully expanded but completely dry to the touch, or tissue as per the tissue test. And each and every time nothing grows. I think i use to have a problem with not rinsing enough after the simmer or soak because sometimes there would be white milky residue at the bottom of the jars that i believe would be from starch. But now I rinse the hell out of the grains and make sure they dry for several hours but still nothing.

Christ at this point I would almost be grateful for some contamination. I can grow cakes all damn day long with about a 100% success rate, but grains just wont work for me.

I have read a few posts about fungicides, and some people seem to say there is such a thing, and some say there isn’t. Could that be a problem? The supplies im getting has fungicides on them to help keep them fresh longer?

Any help is appreciated. Maybe an exact brand or link to where you buy your supplies. Im just so tired of seeing all these people talking about there grain and how it finished in 10 days or something like that, and im sitting here with my thumb up my ass saying WTF. lol


Edited by Digital Reality (02/06/08 10:46 AM)


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986193 - 02/06/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Man am I in a hurry.... dude

Soak for 36 hours, drain and rinse until the endospore smell is gone, let them drain/dry for a good six hours prior to packing into jars, PC for 90minutes at 15 psi, let it cool.

then repeat the process again, only this time adding two table spoons of instant coffee to 1mug of boiled water and use this in with the soak water, let soak for 10-12 hours and repeat the wash/dry/PC cycle again...

Only way rye works for me, otherwise it's failure no matter what. take care.


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: HybridprX]
    #7986196 - 02/06/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, that is a week to prepare each batch!


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: shevanel]
    #7986217 - 02/06/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Na its only about 3 days. the second time you only let it soak for 10-12 hours. Still its a longer process then normal but if i manage to get something growing with grain i could give a shit.

HybridprX
Thanks for the response. Ill start the process tonight and see what happens this time around. Maybe ill get something that works this time.


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986253 - 02/06/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Digital Reality said:
I don’t effin get it. I’ve tried over and over again, using different methods to prepare, rye, wbs, and popcorn once.




Just use one method until you get it right, tweaking it along the way
Quote:


I’ve tried soaking then PC'in, Soaking, simmering, and pc'ing grain that’s slightly wet, grain that’s fully expanded but completely dry to the touch, or tissue as per the tissue test.




It's the desired outcome you are after, not a specific process. The goal is to get the grain to soak up as much water as possible without exploding.
Quote:


And each and every time nothing grows. I think i use to have a problem with not rinsing enough after the simmer or soak because sometimes there would be white milky residue at the bottom of the jars that i believe would be from starch.




Generally, that's from exploded grains, meaning, some of your grains either got too much moisture, or you cooked the ones on bottom in the pc and they burst.
Quote:


But now I rinse the hell out of the grains and make sure they dry for several hours but still nothing.




Soak for 24 hours, Rinse, strain and let drain for an hour. Some say to lay them out thin on a few towls to get excess outside water off the grains. Either should work.
Quote:


Christ at this point I would almost be grateful for some contamination. I can grow cakes all damn day long with about a 100% success rate, but grains just wont work for me.




Hmm... Stick with cakes. Colonize, and crumble to a suitable substrate.
Quote:


I have read a few posts about fungicides, and some people seem to say there is such a thing, and some say there isn’t. Could that be a problem? The supplies im getting has fungicides on them to help keep them fresh longer?




It's doubtful, and if your seeds do have fungicide, it should say on the bag. I have never even pondered if a bag I pickup has fungicide.
Quote:


Any help is appreciated. Maybe an exact brand or link to where you buy your supplies.




When I'm out, and remember I need birdseed, I just buy the first bag I come across. Some say pennington is good. *shrugs*
Quote:


Im just so tired of seeing all these people talking about there grain and how it finished in 10 days or something like that, and im sitting here with my thumb up my ass saying WTF. lol




These people have run into the same learning process as you. They just keep working it until they find something that works. Also, give it time, I have had grain jars that did not even begin to show growth for two weeks and have had grain jars that took two months to get at 100% colonized.

Also, IME, simmering grains is not necessary. A Rinse, plus 24 Hour soak, + 1 hour drain time is sufficient.

Just for what it's worth, my last batch of wbs, I did something totally unorthodox. I soaked for 24 hours, then rinsed, and poured the grains out on my patio, and used a shop broom to sweep them into a thin layer and left then for an hour and came back and swept them up into a pile, then loaded the jars by hand. PC'ed, no contams... LOL.....


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Fraggin]
    #7986326 - 02/06/08 11:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well i def understand what you mean about tweaking one method because it took a few tries to get my PF jars to work right. But at least they had something to tweak. I would have growth but it failed for different reasons until i got it right. But i cant even get far enough to tweak. lol

And as for the exploded grains, i use to have quite a few when i was trying with wet grain per say. but everything is dry now and have no broken kernels. So i know thats not the problem.

Also Ive tried to crumble my cakes to coir a few times but never get any growth after that. The coir is Ph balance and hand tested for moisture content. But I'm pretty sure it was a problem with the coir. I actually bought some new coir last night and am going to give that a shot tonight. If that doesn't work i guess that will be my next problem.

As for your very strange method of drying grains i don't even know what to say about that. lol its strange but if it works... well your doing better than me.

Thanks for the response


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OfflineBarakaZulu
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986339 - 02/06/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you need to build a glove box and put 99% isopropyl in a spray bottle inside the box.

I had all the same trouble you have and a glovebox took from 10% success rate to 100%.

srs.


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986340 - 02/06/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What kind of pc are you using?


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: HybridprX]
    #7986387 - 02/06/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HybridprX said:
Man am I in a hurry.... dude

Soak for 36 hours, drain and rinse until the endospore smell is gone, let them drain/dry for a good six hours prior to packing into jars, PC for 90minutes at 15 psi, let it cool.

then repeat the process again, only this time adding two table spoons of instant coffee to 1mug of boiled water and use this in with the soak water, let soak for 10-12 hours and repeat the wash/dry/PC cycle again...

Only way rye works for me, otherwise it's failure no matter what. take care.




Are you kidding me? That's absolutely ridiculous.


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Mankey]
    #7986441 - 02/06/08 12:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i say use much less innoculant and make sure you shake/stir your LC before you draw it up and use it. If its lc I would use like 2cc per qt jar. The excessive innoculant often contaminates grain easily in my personal experience. Squirt it around the edge of the glass and grain to where it drains barely enough to reach the bottom, all in a circular motion and dont shake it. Give it a shot fuckin a. It worked for me when I had wet spot contams. Also make sure your not burning your grains when you pc by using too much heat and making the weight jiggle alot. One last thing to try might be shaking the grain jars while they are still hot. Yet another thing could be that you need to leave your rings loose on your jars while you pc so your filter material doesnt get soaked with steam while you pc and the interior steam is forced through it. It could be anything, everyone gets away with different shit. Some people (RR) even grew these things on the Good Word can you believe that! Crazy i tell ya.


--------------------
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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: sandman420]
    #7986462 - 02/06/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Also, what kind of pc are you using? I find it difficult to retain moisture with a pc with a jiggle weight.


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Fraggin]
    #7986809 - 02/06/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

BarakaZulu - I have no contams so a glove box will help nothing. But I'm no noob to growing, so i do have a glove box and use it. I just have terrible luck with grain i guess. Like i said before, i almost would be happy to grow a contam at this point.

Fraggin - I'm using a 23qt(i think) presto PC. And it does have the weight on top, but once it gets to like 14 to 15 lbs i turn the heat down so it maintains that rather then a higher heat that would blow off steam.

sandman420 - Ive tried using both LC and Spores solution. Ive used anywhere from 2-6 cc's per jar. Neither of which seemed to cause any standing water.

I dunno. I guess what I'm going to do is throw some grain in a bucket today, and let them soak for 48 hours, then rinse, PC for 90, then soak again with the coffee and finally PC again.

I just ordered some fresh spores from Spores 101 that i guess ill be using this time around. Ill post some pics of all of this. Maybe someone will catch what I'm doing wrong, or low and behold maybe this shit will work this time...


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986896 - 02/06/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This method is how I've done WBS jars for many years now...

Rinse and strain off floaters and discard.

Soak overnight, drain well by shaking in a colander.

Load into qt jars w/ polyfill filters and PC at 15psi for 1 hour.

Take PC off heat and let cool overnight.

No need for all that silly coffee/double soaking. I've used coffee as soak water and found no advantage to this.

That should be the only method you need.

Good luck


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986904 - 02/06/08 02:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

don't bother soaking for that long. I soak for 12-24 hours, simmer for ten minutes, strain, rinse, then let dry for 3 hours, PC at 15 PSI for 45 minutes.

you can pick out floaters, but it doesn't matter at all.
I think you should go with a current shroomery sponsor for your syringes though.

No problems.

Soaking for two days is stupid, period.


--------------------
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Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


Edited by Crasher (02/06/08 02:10 PM)


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Crasher]
    #7986974 - 02/06/08 02:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What!!! i thought they were a sponsor of ours. thats how i found them to start with?!?!

And i think i might try polly this time around. before i was just using tyvek and micro pore tap. I don't figure that will make much of a difference but we shall see. Oh and how big are the hold you guys have that the polly is in. 1/4 in right?


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986994 - 02/06/08 02:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think they got dropped recently.

well, whatever size hole a 16 penny nail makes. I used micropore and polyfill side by side in a dozen jars and now prefer micropore to polyfill, hands down.

Don't go for the ridiculously long soaks. some people (Tahoe) just puts grain and water in his jars at a 2:1 ratio and PC's. no soak, no simmer.

Keep trying!


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7986995 - 02/06/08 02:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

yeah approximately 1/4"

There's a polyfill lid tutorial somewhere on the main site you might look up, but I believe that guide suggests you inoculate through the polyfill, which never really worked for me, so I use 1 hole filled with poly and 1 small hole covered in electrical tape for the needle.


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OfflineDigital Reality
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: simplemachine]
    #7987059 - 02/06/08 02:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

simplemachine - yeah ive read it, i was just checking to make sure i remember correctly.

and damn that sucks about spores 101. they have never gave me a problem. i wonder what happend. oh well

as for the gains... well i guess here we go again. ill post some pics this time. thanks for the help.


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OfflineBarakaZulu
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Digital Reality]
    #7987267 - 02/06/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

have you smelt your grain jars after a few days or weeks? The problem I had with grain was nothing was growing - not even contams, or so I thought. But when I opened them up, there was the sour smell of fermented grain... that's a contaminant. I had also tried every method and nothing grew until I built a glove box and started using alcohol spray inside the box.


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Invisibleplaywithguns
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: sandman420]
    #7987323 - 02/06/08 03:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds like your grain is too wet or you are injecting way to much innoculant^

If it's not that, the fungicide probably has something to do with it.

Trust me, if you follow RR's method, you will not fail. Failure is often a result of an out of wack moisture content. Usually too wet.


--------------------
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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: playwithguns]
    #7987424 - 02/06/08 03:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you know its probably something very simple... i would read a tek and follow exactly what it says to the t.... also i would make sure i waited atleast 10 hrs before i knocked it up


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InvisibleMaxwell Edison
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7987453 - 02/06/08 04:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It's just the way it is when you start out, buck up little camper, you will get it if it means enough to you.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Maxwell Edison]
    #7987474 - 02/06/08 04:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleMaxwell Edison
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7987777 - 02/06/08 05:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If you follow Roger's grain tek, it will work, or the problem isn't with the grains.


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Offlinefigurine
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: Maxwell Edison]
    #7987919 - 02/06/08 05:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: HybridprX]
    #7988478 - 02/06/08 07:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HybridprX said:
Man am I in a hurry.... dude

Soak for 36 hours, drain and rinse until the endospore smell is gone, let them drain/dry for a good six hours prior to packing into jars, PC for 90minutes at 15 psi, let it cool.

then repeat the process again, only this time adding two table spoons of instant coffee to 1mug of boiled water and use this in with the soak water, let soak for 10-12 hours and repeat the wash/dry/PC cycle again...

Only way rye works for me, otherwise it's failure no matter what. take care.




Hah. You changed it a little bit from last time but wow. Do you live in a dump. This is the only way grain works for you? You have other issues if yo uhave to soak and pc twice just to get grain to work


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: tahoe]
    #7988570 - 02/06/08 07:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Not that many people like popcorn around here, but...?

Here is cracked corn. Rinsed in HOT water. Soaked for 24 hrs. Rinsed again in Hot water. Strained for 1 hr. Added field capacity vermiculite. PC 90 min 15 PSI.

12 days into incubation

Here is cracked corn. Simmered for 30 mins. Rinsed in cold water. Strained manually. PCed 90 mins at 15 PSI.

11 days into incubation

Once while doing WBS, I let it soak for 2 days and the seeds started to sprout.


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Offlineresptodd
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7988904 - 02/06/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know what the deal is. PF tek, Grain tek, it's easy, just follow the tek correctly. Cleanliness is a necessity. I went from PF, to LC, then to grain since I joined this forum. Now I'm starting on agar petri dish cloning, and I haven't been around all that long. Read what's going on pay attention to who is posting you'll figure out who's advice you can use as gospel pretty quick.----If you are not into it yet, you have to--have to!--learn LC teks.


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OfflineMuShQuEsT
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: resptodd]
    #7989570 - 02/06/08 10:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I posted on this same thing the other day.

I feel I followed the tek perfectly but alas no growth.

You say you even used an LC and it still didn't work?


--------------------
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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Why am i the only one that cant make grain work!!! [Re: playwithguns]
    #7990017 - 02/07/08 12:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, I am not kidding anyone.

If I could get away with only soaking for 24 hours, rinsing, drying and pc'ing only ONCE I would LOVE IT! ha ha but unfortunately, it does not work for me.

What does work for me is the method I described, and yea, dont get me wrong. It is a major pain in the ass, that is why I use the 22qt mirror PC to soak large amounts of rye all at once and prepare extremely large batches.


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