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SurReality
PsychAdemic

Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress
#7985275 - 02/06/08 12:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok so I just received a hefty amount of rue, and for my first try i decided to mix a generous 3 grams rue (ground seed) with 1/3 of a gourd of yerba mate` and sugar. I let the tea brew for about 25 minutes, once it got a bit saturated i topped it off with more hot water. just finished the first gourd (cup).
So now I'm on gourd 2 and intend to drink about 3-4 gourds and wait for any effects, and follow intuition from there. BTW if your unfamiliar with mate`, this is how it is prepared: leaf goes right in the gourd, and near boiling water is added and a strong brew is ready within minutes. also a straining straw is used to drink the tea from the leafy gourd, called a bombilla. Much more tea is used than with other tea because it is ment to be shared in a group, i can get about a dozen cups before the tea tastes spent. I don't mean to talk about my favorite tea here, but i felt it was necassary so all could understand better.
One question i have is how big of a difference will this method be with not alot of time to brew, from using extract in tea. Assuming it will be much weaker, I went with a lil more than 3g....
Im interested in what others, hopefully with rue experience, think about this preparation.
Ill check back occassionally
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: SurReality]
#7985327 - 02/06/08 12:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd be wary of mixing Mate with rue haphazardly, seems like something you'd want to build up the dose on gradually, paying close attention to any toxicity.
As to the difference between a typical dose of rue brewed from 3g vs what you're getting in the mate: it's a little bit of a tricky question, so bear with my explanation... there's two main aspects to it:
1.) Relative effectiveness of a rue tea vs your consumption method (In terms of harmine/harmaline bioavailability) When you make a normal rue extraction, steeping it for a long time and consuming the tea, you get virtually all of the seed alkaloids into your stomache in a big gulp. Consuming it in your mate, you'll probably get ~60% of the rue alkaloids your first gourd (~40% remain), ~60% of those remaining in your second gourf (~16% remain after 2), and so on. So you'll get the full dose, but over a longer period of time. I don't think the effects of rue are proportional to the rate it's consumed, so I'd expect that you'd get the full activity out of your rue to a first approximation.
2.) How does it intereract with the drug in question (primarily caffeine) It's common knowledge that when using rue to augment DMT it's best to consume the rue first to deactivate MAO, then consume the DMT afterwards. This could lead to the hypothesis that consuming it concurrently with mate will also be less effective than if the rue were consumed prior to the mate. However, I do not belive this is the case. The reason lies in the level on which I expect the two to interact.
Caffeine works primarily by manipulating the cellular concentration of cAMP, a messenger molecule used by many regulatory systems (such as beta-adrenergic receptors). Simply put, it makes it harder for the cell to get rid of cAMP, so the effects of things which stimulate its release (like epinephrine) will last longer. Rue works primarily by preventing the breakdown of things which will signal for the production of cAMP (things like epinephrine), so your cell is going to be hit with a double whammy, where the effects of things like epinephrine will be amplified on two levels of the signalling pathway. Thus it shouldn't really matter whether you take one or the other first, or both simultaneously... the drugs act independently of each other although the overall effects are probably going to be a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
Be sure to report back your experience, as I admit you have me intrigued.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic

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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: Entropymancer]
#7985522 - 02/06/08 02:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its been 2 hours since the first gourd was finished, im on number 5... I'm not particually impressed, i think the mate spoilled it. durring the first half hour- i felt the uplift and clearity of the mate. and within an hour it seemed difficult to focus, i was flipping through a nonfiction book using the index and it was difficult to keep in mind on whatt i was searching for (this may also just be due to my habitual cannabis use). I feel a similar faint vide amung my pores like the first half hour of LSD(placibo effect?). The closest to visuals that i had was a big red light, when going from a lit room to a dark room. It seems sorta like i didnt get enough, because if i get lost in a stare there is a lucid drifting of objects...
Also I had no unplesant physical feelings, stomach is of no concern.
I think next ill try gel capping 3gs and starting with 2, unless i can get time in the kitchen to extract. (if still nothing the seeds must be bunk) This doesn't compare to the trip reports on erowid i've read at all, with doses under 3gs being difficult. All in all it just seemed to brighten my day- brighter vision and mood.
So i guess i'll retire for the night, maybe i'll be pleased with this mild sense when my mind is quiet.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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FarFromHere
~Teotzlcoatl~



Registered: 01/10/08
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: SurReality]
#7985546 - 02/06/08 02:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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don't do yerba mate and rue together!
Wanna trip beta-carboline? Eat the rue!
Wanna get a buzz? Drink the Mate!
-------------------- "We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: FarFromHere] 1
#7985888 - 02/06/08 08:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
FarFromHere said: don't do yerba mate and rue together!
Wanna trip beta-carboline? Eat the rue!
Wanna get a buzz? Drink the Mate!
Wanna be a closed-mided asshole who doesn't care about learning the effects of untried drug combinations? Then you must be FarFromHere!
Seriously, it's legit to point out to the combination is potentially dangerous and to urge caution, but unless you have personal experience showing this to be an ineffective combo, then STFU and let the OP experiment.
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator



Registered: 01/08/03
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress *DELETED* [Re: Entropymancer]
#7986085 - 02/06/08 10:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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FarFromHere
~Teotzlcoatl~



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Posts: 926
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: poke smot!]
#7989008 - 02/06/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
then STFU and let the OP experiment.
i don't want him to get hurt.
Quote:
while people have died combining harmala+coke
No...way?
Cocaine or coca-cola?
-------------------- "We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb
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beatyou
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Posts: 618
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: FarFromHere]
#7990173 - 02/07/08 01:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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syrian rue is an maoi, be careful
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator



Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress *DELETED* [Re: FarFromHere]
#7990737 - 02/07/08 08:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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beatyou
one



Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 618
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: poke smot!]
#7991331 - 02/07/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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the dietary restrictions are many too. peanuts, cheese, chocolate, anti depressants or other ssri's, the list is big
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FarFromHere
~Teotzlcoatl~



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 926
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: beatyou]
#7991368 - 02/07/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Very long...
Heres My Prep' for Aya' or other Drugs which contain strong MAOIs...
Within 2 weeks of and 2 weeks after- ALL medications and vitamins Symptathomimetic drugs Protein bars or extracts Sumatriptan Imitrex Antihistamines MDMA Aged Cheese- Bre’, etc. Amphetamines Migraine medicines SSRIs and any other anti-depressants OTC cold medicines Ephedrine Ephedra Yohimbe Heterocyclicsand Nosedrops tranquilizers Decongestants Pseudoephedrine Diet pills Sedatives- Sleeping Pills, etc. Asarone Nutmeg Macromerine Narcotics- Cocaine, Heroin, Methamphetamine, etc. Allergy medication Opiates- Opium, Valium, Oxycotton, Hydrocodone St. Johns Wort Dextromethorphan Any other MAO inhibitor; MAOI Anti-depressants- Sertraline (zoloft, etc. Amoxapine (asendin) Antihypertensives (high blood pressure medication) Appetite suppressants Clomipramine (anafranil) Cyclobenzaprine (flexeril) Desipramine (pertofrane) Doxepin (sinequan) Fluoxetine (prozac) Imipramine (tofranil) Levodopa (dopar, larodopa) Maprotiline (ludiomil) Medicine for asthma or other breathing problems Meperidine (demerol) Methylphenidate (ritalin) Nortriptyline (aventyl) Paroxetine (paxil) Protriptyline (vivactil) Selegiline (eldepryl) Tricyclic antidepressants (amitriptyline, elavil) Trimipramine (surmontil)
Within 1 week of and 1 week after- Same as above+ Any tyrosine-containing food Mescaline All Beans (including soy!!!) This also includes bean products- like soy sauce, bean dip, etc. No beans!! Broad (Fava) bean pods ( whatever that is) Soy Sauce and Miso soup Avocados Bananas Dill Parsley Fennel Protein bars or extracts Aged cheese Chocolate Make sure all food are fresh; spoiled or old food is the main cause of negative reactions.
Within 3 days of and 3 after- Same as above+ All alcohol Non-alcoholic brewed (Fermented) beverages (non-alcoholic beer); Kombucha; All other brewed drinks. Bananas Canned Foods Chocolate All Beans (including soy!!!) This also includes bean products- like soy sauce, bean dip, etc. No beans!! Broad (Fava) bean pods ( whatever that is) Avocados Cultured dairy products (buttermilk, yogurt, and sour cream) Raisins Red plums All Caffeine products (Coffee, Black or Oolong Tea, Energy Drinks, Ect.) All Dairy products Soy Sauce Spinach Figs Raspberries Nuts Cheese Fish Ginseng High Protein Meals Sausage, Bologna, Pepperoni, Liver and Salami Sauerkraut Shrimp Soups- may have protein, Miso soup can be dangerous. Yeast (unless baked) Salt Sugar Oil Fat (Except 30m after ingestion) Make sure all food are fresh; spoiled or old food is the main cause of negative reactions.
Within 36 hours of and 36 hours after-
Same as above+ No meat or ingestion of any sort of living creature. Absolute no candy or sugar. No sex or masturbation. Take a long bath or shower; Shave your Head, Eye-Brows and Ass; Paint yourself Blue. Drink nothing but water. Contemplate the experience.
33-7 hours before- Same as above + No food
3-1 hours before- Same as above + No water or other drink.
5-15m before- Make some fatty MAOI safe soup- Lard, Mushrooms and Chicken. You can also have some potato chips ready, but the soup is best. Release all bodily waste and fluids. Shake before use. Drink Aya’ (over 20m) Attempt to keep Aya’ down at least 1:00 hour, but induce purge after 1:30-2:00h. Ingest mint and crystalized ginger (Anti-nausea) after purge. Smoke cannabis (Anti-nausea) after purge. Consume the fatty (MAOI safe) food 15-30m after purge to release DMT in bile. Run around naked and make strange noises.
-------------------- "We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: FarFromHere]
#7991892 - 02/07/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's a very comprehensive list, and provides good guidelines for dietary restrictions if you're taking a strong prescription MAOI. But for consuming rue, I think that's a bit overkill.
Sure you want to avoid certain foods for ~12-18 hours on either side of consuming the rue. And I agree with all of the pharmaceuticals that have long halflives needing time to get out of your system. But no aged cheese for two whole weeks beforehand?
Basically all of the foods on your list I'd change to "Do not consume for 36-ish hours before and after ingestion".
Quote:
FarFromHere said: Within 36 hours of and 36 hours after-
No sex or masturbation.
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator



Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress *DELETED* [Re: beatyou]
#7991937 - 02/07/08 02:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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FarFromHere
~Teotzlcoatl~



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 926
Loc: The 7th Plane
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: poke smot!]
#7991944 - 02/07/08 02:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basically all of the foods on your list I'd change to "Do not consume for 36-ish hours before and after ingestion".
right.
And no drugs for 2 weeks or more.
-------------------- "We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: poke smot!]
#7991960 - 02/07/08 02:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You hit the nail on the head. I've heard tons of anecdotal reports that consuming tyrosine-containing foods is not a problem with the beta-carbolines (or at least harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmaline).
But that being said, I wouldn't want to encourage people to neglect the restrictions, in case they happen to be an exception to the rule. Better safe than struck by serotonin syndrome.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic

Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: Entropymancer]
#7994693 - 02/08/08 01:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow i didnt realize there were such dietary restriction with rue/caapi, that truly diminishes my interest... i really dont have the money to pick food out of my diet, as i pretty much eat all that i can get...(while maintaining 115-130lbs) my intentions were to do this early in the day before i get much of an appetite and have about a 10hr fast b4 use.
i just skimmed through that list and found much of what was in my diet over the week in there. although i did take a shower and shaved my head to paint myself blue, maybe that saved my life... really how serious is that list??
ok i took about 2.5g via gel caps this morning and went about my day as usual... i didnt have much difficulty getting through my day at all, if someone had given it to me w/o my knowing i don't think i'd have noticed it. if i had visuals i'm not sure, i had a few glimpse hallucinations(?) it was more like they saw me than i saw them... i had i sorta interest in birds, noices, nature... but it may just be an attitude i get when i expect to trip.
sorta concerned about this inactive(?) rue, because swim really don't want to waste a dmt experience....
Thanks for all the help, SurReality
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator



Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress *DELETED* [Re: SurReality]
#7995080 - 02/08/08 07:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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beatyou
one



Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 618
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Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Syrian Rue Seed Yerba Mate` - Expierment in Progress [Re: poke smot!]
#7996022 - 02/08/08 12:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I ate ground rue seeds in combination with a couple g's of cubes. The rue affected the experience, in a positive way.
I'm not sure the amount of rue I ate, though.
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