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Offlinelonestar2004
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OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD
    #7984546 - 02/05/08 08:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Berman's count: 606-534


David Plouffe, on a conference call just now, offered the Obama campaign's estimate of where they stand at this moment in terms of delegates.

"We are, in terms of delegates, ahead currently: about 606 to 534, in terms of pledged delegates awarded tonight," he said.

The Obama campaign's delegate guy, Jeff Berman, caught and corrected the inaccurate early reports of Nevada's delegate count, so they've got credibility on this count.

Plouffe cited wide margins in Kansas and Minnesota, as well as the fact that Obama had a larger margin in Illinois than Clinton did in New York.

Details of their argument after the jump.



An Early Look Inside the Numbers (As of 9:45 pm CST)



Surprisingly strong performances in Senator Clinton’s backyard has Senator Obama in a strong position on Super Tuesday.



Senator Obama Wins Home State Head-to-Head

Obama won his home state by 67 delegates (110-43; 153 total). Clinton won her home state by 52 delegates (142-90; 232 total). Among home states, Obama won a net delegate margin of 15. That’s a good number – but even more impressive when you consider that New York had 79 more delegates up for grabs than Illinois.



Obama Wins in Clinton’s Backyard -- Connecticut

Obama won in Connecticut – less than 10 miles from Clinton’s New York home. Nearly 25% of Connecticut voters live in the New York media market.



Obama Showed Strong Across the board Strength in Georgia

In Georgia, Obama won nearly 40% of the white vote and 64% of the vote among women – an impressive display of across the board support in a Southern, so-called ‘red state’.



Strong Showing among Hispanics

Despite all the talk about Clinton’s strong support among Hispanics, Obama won a clear majority of Hispanics in Illinois and got nearly 44% of the Hispanics in Arizona, according to exit polls.



Obama Won Lion’s Share of Delaware Delegates

15 delegates were up for grabs in Delaware. Because of huge margins in Wilmington, the site of Obama’s 20,000-person rally on Sunday, Obama will take 9 delegates and Clinton only 6.



Obama Sweeps Caucus States

Obama is position to sweep the caucus states. According to early projections, Obama is likely to take delegates by about a 2-to-1 margin in Minnesota (72 total delegates), Kansas (32 total delegates), North Dakota (13 total delegates).



Similar margins in Obama’s favor are also likely in other caucus states: Colorado, Idaho and Alaska.



Obama, So Far, Has Won More Red States Than Clinton (5-3)

AL, GA, UT, KS, ND, (5)

AR, TN, OK (3)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Bermans_count_606534.html


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Invisiblewhatsgrimace
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7984646 - 02/05/08 09:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is exciting news. :thumbup:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #7984855 - 02/05/08 10:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

last i heard .. clinton was ahead

I'm terrified to live in an America with her as president


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985107 - 02/05/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is really scary to say but we'd be lucky to get her at this point. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be her vs. Mccain in the general election and she is going to get the living shit beat out of her once the Republican slime machine gets going.

The only thing more terrifying than an America with Hillary as president is an America with another Republican as president. :foreheadslap:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7985113 - 02/05/08 11:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I can live with Mccain... compared to Hillary. Obama was the only dem that stood a chance against mccain.

Any other repub would get beat by hillary. If he democrats have any brains (which they don't.. so why am I even asking) they'd put Obama up there.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985132 - 02/05/08 11:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If [t]he democrats have any brains (which they don't.. so why am I even asking) they'd put Obama up there.




It ain't over by a long shot. It is an interesting contest.

Obama's Message vs. Clinton's Machine.

Which will win out in the long run?


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985135 - 02/05/08 11:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Obama was the only dem that stood a chance against mccain.




:thumbup: Completely agree.

Quote:

I can live with Mccain... compared to Hillary




Can you live with staying in Iraq indefinitely?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7985139 - 02/05/08 11:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If Hillary wins.. we'll be staying indefinately in Iraq too. At least Mccain's got the balls to admit it. I think he's a sellout, but in the end, if he wins, after he's done with the "we gotta stay in iraq" speeches just to please the rest of the repubs, he'll be the one repub (besides paul) who probably has the best chance to review the situation with more realistic eyes. I mean hell... could you see Mccain being any WORSE than what we have now? Mccain proves that he's at least CAPABLE of listening to people and not just being a corporate puppet.

Just my opinion though... I can't count how many times Ive heard Hillary cop with with something to the effect of

"WE NEED TO GET OUT OF IRAQ... cough cough.. unless.. ummm.. there's some alqueda stuff going on yada yada we'll stick around and bla bla bla". Whenever she talks about getting out of Iraq she ALWAYS throws in some caveat about possibly staying, just so she can say later on, that she never lied to anyone when she keeps the troops there forever and just ignores the situation.


Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service. If Hillary and Obama were THAT worried about the war, they'd have ended it months ago.


Edited by BrAiN (02/05/08 11:24 PM)


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985193 - 02/05/08 11:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

well we are screwed when we retire
we are going to be forcefully putting money into social security
then its all going to get spent and inflated like a madman by the time we retire
and there will be so many old people, disproportionally were fucked


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Coaster]
    #7985213 - 02/05/08 11:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No you aren't.

Ir you count on the government, you're probably fucked.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zorbman]
    #7985227 - 02/05/08 11:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:

It ain't over by a long shot. It is an interesting contest.

Obama's Message vs. Clinton's Machine.

Which will win out in the long run?




QFT


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985244 - 02/05/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If Hillary wins.. we'll be staying indefinately in Iraq too.



I think you may be right but it definitely didn't endear me to Mccain when he said that he would have no problem staying in Iraq for 100 years. That's just ludicrous. Hillary, even though she's full of shit and would make a pretty bad president MIGHT try and get us out of there a little earlier...I'd hope. It's a choice between shit and more shit at this point but I'd rather have a Democrat than 4 more years of Republican crap to be honest with you. The Republican party has had their 8 years in office and have failed America miserably. It's time for a Democrat to step up to the plate.

Quote:

Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq.




True again. To avoid further bullshit like Iraq would mean changing our foreign policy approach, i.e. non-interventionist, which NONE of the other potential front-runners offer. Hell, even Obama has said that he'd consider invading Iran (said it in 2004, check it out) and Pakistan (more recently) but I'd have preferred him for the reasons I listed above. Like you said, the only candidate that REALLY offered us "change" (there's that friggin' buzzword again :mad2:) was Paul though he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning even one state.

Quote:

If Hillary and Obama were THAT worried about the war, they'd have ended it months ago.




They alone don't have the power to do this, there is the entire Congress and that pesky presidential veto to circumvent. And by the way, shame on the Democratic Congress for not pursuing an end to the war in Iraq, that's why we voted those assholes in during the 2006 midterm elections.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7985315 - 02/06/08 12:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They just don't have the votes!

Its not that hard to understand.

You can see that they have put it up to vote several times, and it has been defeated each time.

Don't blame the people who proposed the bill and voted for it, but do some research and see who voted AGAINST it and take out your ire on them.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7985395 - 02/06/08 01:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Don't blame the people who proposed the bill and voted for it, but do some research and see who voted AGAINST it and take out your ire on them.




You're splitting hairs. The fact is that this current Democratic Congress was swept into office on a mandate that they would be some sort of check on Bush and get the US out of the Iraq War. They have failed very badly. It misses the point to figure out which Democrat voted for a resolution to condemn the Iraq War and who didn't because (a) these resolutions are non-binding, merely protesting troop increases and (b) Bush would either use his veto and the Republicans in Congress would prevent it from being overridden, which has happened.

You are incorrect in assuming that these bills you allude to would actually get troops out of Iraq considering they are NON-BINDING!

What the Congress could have done but haven't is to cut funding for the war. This would be a ballsy move and would force an quick end to this war. Not only have they not done this but they've actually authorised increases in money and troops. This is not what the American people have demanded of our Democrat Congress in the midterm elections and we have been betrayed by their cowardice and inactivity.

An 18% approval rating for this Congress... that's even lower than the president and the second lowest EVER! Clearly I'm not alone in my frustration at this pathetic Congress.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/08/gallup-approval.html


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7985423 - 02/06/08 01:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you think they would have the votes to cut funding?

Really?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7985456 - 02/06/08 01:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you think they would even want to vote to cut funding? When it comes on down to it, party affliation is simply a political maneuver based upon convinence. These guys switch parties when it is beneficial for them, and no one party benefits from one special interest. If standing agansit the War in Iraq was anything more than political posturing, they would have stood up strongly agansit it, even if, in the end, they would have come up a few votes short to stop it. If it was an idealogical stance, they would have striven to continue to seek to end it.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineCubie
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7985514 - 02/06/08 02:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

McCain scares me more then Hillary. He looks like a war hungry mother fucker. If we just can't have ron paul. Id rather have obama. Hopefully Ron will run independent.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Cubie]
    #7985543 - 02/06/08 02:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the real mccain ..

Quote:

McCain's political colleagues … know another side of the action hero -- a volatile man with a hair-trigger temper, who shouted at Sen. Ted Kennedy on the Senate floor to "shut up," called his fellow Republican senators "shithead," "fucking jerk," "asshole," and joked in 1998 at a Republican fundraiser about the teenage daughter of President Clinton, "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father." [In 2006], McCain suddenly rushed up to a friend of mine, a prominent Washington attorney, at a social event, and threatened to beat him up because he represented a client McCain happened to dislike, and then, just as suddenly, profusely and tearfully apologized.




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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Cubie]
    #7985568 - 02/06/08 02:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cubie said:
Hopefully Ron will run independent.




Cut him a check for a hundred million and you'll see it happen. Otherwise, forget about it.


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
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Like being here
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7985577 - 02/06/08 03:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Cubie said:
Hopefully Ron will run independent.




Cut him a check for a hundred million and you'll see it happen. Otherwise, forget about it.




You can't buy the election, didn't the tea party tell you that?


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7985592 - 02/06/08 03:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What the fuck are you talking about? He said "hopefully he'll run independent". I responded by identifying what would be necessary before Ron Paul would run. It would take that much to even be able to approach any kind of realistic, independent campaign.

Can money buy an election? No, but it can buy the means to campaign. Duh. The energy you waste in being needlessly dismissive would be much better spent thinking.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7985677 - 02/06/08 06:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:

They alone don't have the power to do this, there is the entire Congress and that pesky presidential veto to circumvent. And by the way, shame on the Democratic Congress for not pursuing an end to the war in Iraq, that's why we voted those assholes in during the 2006 midterm elections.




They don't have to get 66% of the senate to pull the troops out. They only need 51% to reject a war budjet. The latter they could have done, what they have threatened to do, but never followed through with.


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985766 - 02/06/08 07:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think they would have the votes to cut funding?

Really?




Yeah... really. The Democrats would be able to use their 51% majority to at least send a bill to the president (which would probably get vetoed like the last bill of which we spoke) but they should at least be pressing and hammering this forward through Congress. It comes down to general spinelessness as to why they have not done this. Now, if you want to talk about SHOULD they cut funding, that's a much more interesting topic.

Quote:

Do you think they would even want to vote to cut funding?




A better question, even if it was rhetorical. No, they do not. The Democrats are so timid they will not even stand up to the president, even when mandated by the American people to do so. When it comes down to it (as fireworks suggests), the Democrats essentially postured for the American people during the 2006 midterm elections pandering to those voters discontent with the war so they could get into office, not so they could actually do something about the situation. They are scared the public will see them as not supporting the troops (blanket Republican accusation for disagreeing with the president on the war) so they pretty much gave the president carte blanche for spending on the war and basically rolled over and played dead.

Quote:

They only need 51% to reject a war budjet. The latter they could have done, what they have threatened to do, but never followed through with.




That's what I thought, I'm still a bit unsure on that though. The Dems seem content to pay lip service to the antiwar movement that voted them but not even challenge the president. That's bullshit.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7985828 - 02/06/08 08:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Unless I am mistaken you can't donate more than 50K to an individual candidate


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:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985839 - 02/06/08 08:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service.




What about Kuccinich?


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7985849 - 02/06/08 08:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
If Hillary wins.. we'll be staying indefinately in Iraq too. At least Mccain's got the balls to admit it. I think he's a sellout, but in the end, if he wins, after he's done with the "we gotta stay in iraq" speeches just to please the rest of the repubs, he'll be the one repub (besides paul) who probably has the best chance to review the situation with more realistic eyes. I mean hell... could you see Mccain being any WORSE than what we have now? Mccain proves that he's at least CAPABLE of listening to people and not just being a corporate puppet.

Just my opinion though... I can't count how many times Ive heard Hillary cop with with something to the effect of

"WE NEED TO GET OUT OF IRAQ... cough cough.. unless.. ummm.. there's some alqueda stuff going on yada yada we'll stick around and bla bla bla". Whenever she talks about getting out of Iraq she ALWAYS throws in some caveat about possibly staying, just so she can say later on, that she never lied to anyone when she keeps the troops there forever and just ignores the situation.


Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service. If Hillary and Obama were THAT worried about the war, they'd have ended it months ago.




great post, pretty much my thoughts exactly... from what I've read, Obama seems pretty keen to skip town on iraq too, though not to the extent of Paul, obviously.

I really don't get the hillary thing... is it just name recognition? The woman issue (which bugs the shit out of me)... dunno

maybe healthcare issues? though I don't know how she differentiates herself from obama, and not sure the American conscious reaches far back enough to still associate her w/ the first term stuff she wen for, but maybe


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7986090 - 02/06/08 10:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:
Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service.




What about Kuccinich?





well.. active candidates


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7986172 - 02/06/08 10:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What concerns me is how McCain said that he would stay in Iraq for a hundred years if that's what it took for our troops to come home with honor. 

He's is incorrectly assuming two things:
1. Our troops currently have no honor
2. We have an infinite money supply

You know, those damn dope fiends were so dishonorable when they returned home from Nam, and our boys now are the same. :rolleyes:

Also, he doesn't seem interested in the declining dollar, eroded personal liberties, illegal immigration, or America's tarnished image.  The end justifies the means, we'll be bankrupt and teetering on the edge of our superpower pedestal, but it won't matter just so long as our troops come home with HONOR!

He has been tainted by his little Vietnam adventure.

To me it appears that the trauma he incurred over his five year stint in a Vietnamese prison camp has greatly clouded his judgment regarding the sustainability of our Iraqi excursion and the nature of *honor*.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: SoY]
    #7986192 - 02/06/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Don't get me wrong... I'da rather NOT have Mccain as president... I just think Hillary would screw things up worse. If it's Mccain and Hil, I'd vote mccain.

If it wasObama and Mccain... fuck it... I don't care either way so I'd just write in Ron Paul.

btw I was just drving around Texas A&M a few minutes ago... big ass RON PAUL billboard on the side of the road.... wonder how well RP is gonna do in Texas. Whenever I'm out here in College Station I see a lot of his signs in ppl's yards.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Coaster]
    #7987065 - 02/06/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
well we are screwed when we retire
we are going to be forcefully putting money into social security
then its all going to get spent and inflated like a madman by the time we retire
and there will be so many old people, disproportionally were fucked




You're correct. You are fucked. Madtown is wrong. It has nothing to do with dependence and everything to do with how they are going to cornhole you with payroll tax increases to pay me. I fucking warned you all.

Of course, if you are dependent on the government you are fucked, too. Just in a different way


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7987093 - 02/06/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

We are definitely fucked. we now have a choice between liberal, liberal and liberal...


Now I'm trying to figure out which one of the three will fuck us the least.....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7987100 - 02/06/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:


You're splitting hairs. The fact is that this current Democratic Congress was swept into office on a mandate that they would be some sort of check on Bush and get the US out of the Iraq War.




No, they were not. That may have been your issue but what cost the Republicans majorities was that they became as spendy as the Dems and their own voters stayed home. The welfare queens voted just as much as ever but the adults couldn't stand the stench.


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7987121 - 02/06/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Now I'm trying to figure out which one of the three will fuck us the least.....




That's a no-brainer. McCain will fuck y'all the least.

Not the perfect Republican candidate, for sure, but still miles better than either of the two Dems.




Phred


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7987309 - 02/06/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:


You're splitting hairs. The fact is that this current Democratic Congress was swept into office on a mandate that they would be some sort of check on Bush and get the US out of the Iraq War.




No, they were not. That may have been your issue but what cost the Republicans majorities was that they became as spendy as the Dems and their own voters stayed home. The welfare queens voted just as much as ever but the adults couldn't stand the stench.




Where are you getting your information from? The handling of the Iraq War was BY FAR the most pressing issue that inspired the American people to vote the Democrats into Congress. Alright, as usual I'll be the one citing sources to back up what I'm saying... starting to feel alone in this respect:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/23/AR2006102300766.html

N.B. The subtitle states "Iraq War Cited Most Often As Top Issue for Elections." Among most this is the conventional wisdom for the 2006 Midterm Elections results and the polls stand testament to this.


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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/06/08 03:38 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7987383 - 02/06/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

From your link

Quote:

Two weeks before the midterm elections, Republicans are losing the battle for independent voters, who now strongly favor Democrats on Iraq and other major issues facing the country and overwhelmingly prefer to see them take over the House in November, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.




A poll before the election by the WAPO ABC News does not exactly constitute evidence. This is going to have to remain an opinion issue since there is no way to actually prove either of our positions. For an example of why I think the way I do consider Lieberman the Hawk over Lamont the Twat in Connecticut. Also, the Republicans had more seats at risk. Don't be so quick to grab the mandate label. I don't think it happened. I don't think the Dems believe it did either, or they would have cut funding if they really thought that's what people wanted and would give them an electoral advantage.


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7987454 - 02/06/08 04:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

This is going to have to remain an opinion issue since there is no way to actually prove either of our positions.




Probably, and I respect your opinion. There were some that clearly voted for the Democrats because of economic issues, though all I was arguing was that the majority voted based on their disapproval of the Iraq War.

Quote:

A poll before the election by the WAPO ABC News does not exactly constitute evidence.




Why not? I think that it gauges public opinion very well but fair enough... how about exit polls from the election itself?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/election.why/index.html

Quote:

I don't think it [mandate] happened. I don't think the Dems believe it did either, or they would have cut funding if they really thought that's what people wanted and would give them an electoral advantage.




According to the Midterm Election exit polls, 57 per cent of all voters disapproved of the war in Iraq. This percentage is higher than the alleged mandate that Bush received from the American people when he received 51 per cent of the popular vote in the 2004 presidential election. It can only logically follow that this was a mandate for the Democrats to change something about the Iraq War, being that this was the main issue at stake.

Quote:

I don't think the Dems believe it did either, or they would have cut funding if they really thought that's what people wanted and would give them an electoral advantage.




I think the term "pussies" would be applicable in this situation. Maybe political cowards. Whatever the case is, the American people are not happy about this.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7987460 - 02/06/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

We'll see.

There is a pretty solid amount of rational Americans who believe that that the war was a mistake, but that just up and leaving in the dark of night would be an even bigger one.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7987484 - 02/06/08 04:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I thought it was more a matter of Republicans not voting for their previously preferred whores than it was for anybody voting for some other whore. It's also not unusual for an administration in power to lose it's Congressional majority in a midterm election. In fact, I think it's the norm.


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7987561 - 02/06/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, Yes.

If you're talking about the reason you guys lost out so big in the last election, I would agree.

I was just referring to the significance of the voting block that I mentioned on the decision of the Dem's to not push for a funding cut vote. I support the Democratic party, but I would not have supported such an act, and I think there are a lot of people who agree with me.

I'd like to be out of Iraq, but there has got to some kind of rational basis for the withdrawl. Not just a fly-by-night pack everything up and go type deal.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7988044 - 02/06/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

There is a pretty solid amount of rational Americans who believe that that the war was a mistake, but that just up and leaving in the dark of night would be an even bigger one.




Any other ideas? When we do eventually leave, Iraq is destined to fall back into sectarian warfare... the only way that region has ever been peaceful is under a strongman or an empire. It's prolonging the inevitable.


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7988370 - 02/06/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:Any other ideas? When we do eventually leave, Iraq is destined to fall back into sectarian warfare... the only way that region has ever been peaceful is under a strongman or an empire. It's prolonging the inevitable.




That is the pessimistic view, yes. Listen, there is no doubt that most of the countries in the Middle-East are run by dictators or strong-men. But that just as certainly does not mean that a democratic government under the rule of law CANNOT exist. You cannot get one from the other. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

Regardless of what you believe about American puppet-mastery, there is a group in Iraq trying very hard to establish a viable state out of what they have. No, it is not a historically, culturally, or religiously homogenus population. But that does not preclude success on the part of those people, does it? More has been done with less, hasn't it? And they have the hugely influential financial support of the most powerful country in the world. Don't you think they might have at least a little chance of success?

It's our problem, whether you like it or not, because of what we've done to their country. I didn't want to be there either, but we are and you cannot do anything about that now. We have wrecked their country, and if they are asking for a bit of time to get their shit together before we loose them to the tender mercies of politics in the Middle East I don't see how you can in any good conscience not give it to them.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7988999 - 02/06/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

That is the pessimistic view, yes. Listen, there is no doubt that most of the countries in the Middle-East are run by dictators or strong-men. But that just as certainly does not mean that a democratic government under the rule of law CANNOT exist. You cannot get one from the other. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.




Now let's look at things realistically for a second. The state of Iraq was artificially imposed on to the map of the Middle East by the British Empire following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I. It is a total clusterfuck of Sunni, Shia and Kurds. The state that exists today is shaped the way it is because of British oil interests and primary loyalties still lie on ethnic boundaries, not along national boundaries (think of the tribalism vs. nationalism problem. that came from European powers carving up Africa in the 1880s). Iraqi Kurds are more loyal to their Kurdish brethren in Turkey and Iran and still seek to form their own nation of Kurdistan, which was promised around the same time that Iraq was created. Sunnis and Shia are more loyal to their respective diasporas and have feuded for centuries over certain theological questions.

This is not a recipe for success. The only semblance of nationalism that exists in that country now comes from the shared sentiment that Iraqis want us the FUCK out of their country! Imagine how you would feel if there was a foreign army patrolling your streets.

Quote:

Regardless of what you believe about American puppet-mastery, there is a group in Iraq trying very hard to establish a viable state out of what they have.




What I believe about American puppet-mastery? What the hell are you even talking about? You assume too much. Like I said before, Iraqi nationalism is more of a resistance to being occupied than any sort of brotherhood felt amongst the disparate ethnic groups. Iraq as we know it has no future as a stable, multi-ethnic democracy, especially not if the US is still lingering around in their country. The only hope that this region has is to fragment into separate states along ethnic lines in a similar fashion to what the Balkan states did following the collapse of Yugoslavia. Iraq is a failed state in every sense of the word: this is not pessimism, it is reality.

Quote:

It's our problem, whether you like it or not, because of what we've done to their country. I didn't want to be there either, but we are and you cannot do anything about that now. We have wrecked their country, and if they are asking for a bit of time to get their shit together before we loose them to the tender mercies of politics in the Middle East I don't see how you can in any good conscience not give it to them.




We've discussed this in another thread and the conclusion we reached is that violence and attacks on US troops are steadily increasing the longer the US stays in the country. Are you suggesting we stay in Iraq indefinitely and pay the price in American blood? Unfortunately this is the choice we are left with: more American and Iraqi blood if we stay or a whole lot more Iraqi blood if we go. You sound like someone who would have supported sticking around in Vietnam for another 10 years to straighten things out.

To take another lesson from Vietnam I don't think it would be a bad idea if the Congress started making deadlines and drawing down troop numbers (like they did in Vietnam) while getting Iraqi security forces to take over. At that point we could gradually hand it off to the Iraqis and get our coveted "peace with honour" to use an appropriate phrase.

Final note: guess what happened when Congress grew a pair of testicles and rightfully took hold of our foreign policy in the early 70s? They helped bring our troops home.


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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/07/08 09:38 AM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7990663 - 02/07/08 07:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think we should pull out of iraq immediately, but the night before, give all out soldiers spraycans and have the spray "AL QUEDA SUCKS LLAMA BALLS" all over Iraq before they leave

That'll show em.


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
    #7990893 - 02/07/08 09:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
I think we should pull out of iraq immediately, but the night before, give all out soldiers spraycans and have the spray "AL QUEDA SUCKS LLAMA BALLS" all over Iraq before they leave

That'll show em.




:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Awesome!


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Offlinehazey
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7993008 - 02/07/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7993274 - 02/07/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:

I can live with Mccain... compared to Hillary



Can you live with staying in Iraq indefinitely?





can you live with big government up your ass with a microscope for the next 70+
years? that's what clinton wants, think back to her book It Takes A Village...


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7993476 - 02/07/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:

I can live with Mccain... compared to Hillary



Can you live with staying in Iraq indefinitely?





can you live with big government up your ass with a microscope for the next 70+
years? that's what clinton wants, think back to her book It Takes A Village...




Are you seriously implying in that statement that the Republicans are for small government. The Democrats=big government and Republicans= small government sound bite you're referring to is a total crock. Let's review... under this Republican regime for the past 8 years the federal bureaucracy has exploded with government spending reaching astronomical levels. In fact, the "fiscally conservative" small-government Bush administration has outspent both "tax-and-spend" liberal presidents Clinton and Carter. How's that for small government?

Here's some figures from only 2003 and the figures are obscene. They are much higher today.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3184

It isn't just the defense budget that accounts for the rise in government spending, it's also things like education and labour, which have experienced 70 and 65 per cent increases respectively. Some small government, right?

Let's not even mention the NSA wiretapping and domestic spying along with the Patriot Act. It appears that the government's microscope is already planted firmly in the collective asshole of the American people.


Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/07/08 07:49 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7993527 - 02/07/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:
Are you seriously implying in that statement that the Republicans are for small government.




I'm stating that they're all for big government, increasing powers of that body
and stripping more right, I've referred to nothing but a book, it's going to get
worse because htat microscope has sharp corners


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7993586 - 02/07/08 07:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:
Are you seriously implying in that statement that the Republicans are for small government.




I'm stating that they're all for big government, increasing powers of that body
and stripping more right, I've referred to nothing but a book, it's going to get
worse because htat microscope has sharp corners




I'm in total agreement with you on that. Both sides of the aisle are into the idea of big government and like I said earlier both Hillary and Mccain would make shitty presidents. I wasn't defending Hillary. All I was saying is that I'd probably choose her over Mccain because I can't even begin to fathom how bad it would be to have Republicans in charge of the country for another 4 years.

You're also right about that government microscope getting more and more intrusive but I hardly think that Mccain would reverse that trend any more than Hillary.

Anyone else get the feeling we're going to be in 1984 territory in a few years?


Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/09/08 08:22 PM)


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OfflineCubie
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7994752 - 02/08/08 02:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Man partys don't mean shit anymore. All their policys and personalitys are differnt. Were fuct with Hillary or McCain.
Pray for obama he's our only chance.
China was just on the news spying hardcore on us like always. Russia hates us and has a KGB president. North Korea is always wanting to blow us up. Japan probley would love to drop a few nukes on us, they just turned our navy away from port during a bad storm. Not to mention the terrorists... Well, were gonna get fuct up eventuley anyways. Just like Rome and Greece just now the stakes are raised. Nukes are gonna kill us all. We doomed ourselves figuring that shit out. Well not 'we' but the dumbasses who have them now.
Bleh I'm stoned


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Cubie]
    #8002335 - 02/09/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8002405 - 02/09/08 08:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hell yea he owned today


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8003742 - 02/10/08 06:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It pisses me off the way everyone is saying how Hilary is prolly gonna win. I don't know why anyone would be that sure about this yet. I personally think Obama is gonna kick ass all over the place and then piss all over the republicans to top it off. This is what I hope.

Yes We Can!

Obama 08


--------------------
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OfflineTheCow
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8005440 - 02/10/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Obama just won Maine. Not sure what the total delegate numbers are now as no website has posted it yet


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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: TheCow]
    #8005470 - 02/10/08 05:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If he won by 20%, which are the numbers I saw, it should be something like..15/10 or 15/11.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8005474 - 02/10/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Which is not a substantial amount of delegates, but you'll take them where you can get them I suppose...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8006378 - 02/10/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Clinton Secretly Visits Edwards; Obama Next

ABC News has learned that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., met with former Sen. John Edwards secretly at his home in Chapel Hill, North Carolina on Thursday. Clinton's rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Illionis Sen. Barack Obama will meet with Edwards on Monday, sources say.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/abc-news-eloise.html



Damn i think Edwards only has about 26 delegates.....

she must be desperate!


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Invisiblewhatsgrimace
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8006434 - 02/10/08 08:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It's probably going to come down to:

Edwards: I'll let you have my delegates if you let me be your vice.
Clinton: k mang

That or she'll just pay him off.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #8006818 - 02/10/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

His delegates aren't shit.

They are less than insignificant.

Not nearly enough to parlay into a VP slot.

Plus, there are the connotations of 2004 which I'm sure Hillary would want to avoid.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8007200 - 02/11/08 12:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
That's a no-brainer. McCain will fuck y'all the least.

Not the perfect Republican candidate, for sure, but still miles better than either of the two Dems.




I'm not buying that one bit. McCain will fuck us all the least? That's ridiculuous, the man is emotionally unstable. While I have respect for the tragic experience of being a prisoner-of-war, it only goes to show that the man has had tragic experiences related to war, and having him be the commander-in-chief at a time when we still have forces in the Middle East and the international community is very tense right now from America's intervention in that region, its more than scary. :eek:

I have much less respect for the man being a prisoner-of-war when he stills propagates the positions and the ideaology that produces prisoners-of-war in the first place. McCain strikes me as a man that inflicts suffering upon himself and doesn't realize how, so he perpetuates the same suffering further. At a time when we're about ready to fall into a deep recession if there is no effective leadership by a President, dark times, I don't want someone that won't allow us to transcend the unnecessary suffering.

I think it would be a detriment to the evolution of humankind on this planet to have McCain as President of the United States. Obama is the only person suitably placed to truly lead this country, and, subsequently, the planet, to a new age of prosperity, peace, and sustainability. Not only is he very capable of winning and having the support of Congress to enact his ideas, but the ideas are very good ones that seek to advance the evolution of this planet. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8007676 - 02/11/08 05:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I have much less respect for the man being a prisoner-of-war when he stills propagates the positions and the ideaology that produces prisoners-of-war in the first place.




Yet McCain has repeatedly outraged the Republican base by calling for Guantanamo Bay's closure, squawking about waterboarding being "torture", and insisting that captured enemy combatants have access to the full panoply of America's legal system rather than being treated as the prisoners of war they are.

Quote:

Obama is the only person suitably placed to truly lead this country, and, subsequently, the planet, to a new age of prosperity, peace, and sustainability.




Obama is even more of a pinko than John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, and Ted Kennedy. America doesn't need four years of rule by a Libbie. And America certainly doesn't need four decades or more of legislation from the bench -- a cast-iron certainty if Obama is elected.




Phred


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8007710 - 02/11/08 05:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, but war is war, and such an outcome seems inevitable from war. If prisoners of war were treated like first-class citizens by their captors, then man would have seen the folly of war for what it is, and then where would we be?

Tell me, what exactly would be so horrible about Obama as President, supported by a Democratic Congress, something more substanstive than solely relying on the term "Liberal"?

:strokebeard:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8008166 - 02/11/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
squawking about waterboarding being "torture"
Phred




Waterboarding is torture. Trust the experts, i.e. McCain, and anyone who has administered or experienced waterboarding.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflinePhred
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8008374 - 02/11/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Waterboarding is most emphatically NOT torture. The process isn't the least bit painful.

This has been testified to by the dozens of demonstrators and media reporters who have subjected themselves to it -- roughly ten times as many terrorists as the CIA actually waterboarded.

Is it unpleasant? Damned straight! Is it a convincing simulation of drowning? You bet! But torture? Not at all.

Now let's return to the topic of the thread -- Obama's claim to have the lead in delegates. If you feel inclined to continue discussing the utility and/or morality of various interrogation techniques, feel free to do so in this thread -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/8008357/an/0/page/0





Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8009976 - 02/11/08 06:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

From the first post in the thread:

Quote:

David Plouffe, on a conference call just now, offered the Obama campaign's estimate of where they stand at this moment in terms of delegates.




Ah yes. Those Obama campaign staffers. I get a kick out of Obama campaign staffers. Like the ones in his Houston campaign office, who are too dim to realize that leaving a Cuban flag with their other Leftist idol's image on it (Che Guevara, that is, not the Obamessiah) up in its place of honor on the wall while allowing news photographers into the office doesn't really send the most reassuring message to undecided voters already somewhat suspicious Obama may be too left-leaning for their tastes. See http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5700252&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

just a few seconds into the video. Yeah... that's a surefire way to snap up delegates all right. Lock up the Che T-shirt demographic.

Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8010005 - 02/11/08 06:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8010090 - 02/11/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like someone on Obama's staff owns a Che flag, which of course means that Obama is a crazy leftist nutjob


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Offlinebhamlaxy
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #8010399 - 02/11/08 07:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

On Thursday David Wilhelm was a guest speaker in one of my classes. Because of his political ties to the dems (managed Bill Clinton's campaign, chair of DNC) he is a super delegate for this election. He was formally undecided coming into our class, but during his presentation signed his Obama pledge papers and mailed them in. Add one for Obama!

Quote:

Ah yes. Those Obama campaign staffers. I get a kick out of Obama campaign staffers. Like the ones in his Houston campaign office, who are too dim to realize that leaving a Cuban flag with their other Leftist idol's image on it (Che Guevara, that is, not the Obamessiah) up in its place of honor on the wall while allowing news photographers into the office doesn't really send the most reassuring message to undecided voters already somewhat suspicious Obama may be too left-leaning for their tastes. See http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5700252&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

just a few seconds into the video. Yeah... that's a surefire way to snap up delegates all right. Lock up the Che T-shirt demographic.



Oh come on, It's just a poster. He seems to be snapping up delegates quite easily right now, I'm sure a poster isn't going to shatter his growing popularity. I can make the same outlandish and stupid statements about McCain, who I guess may be able to capture the racist vote with him labeling his captors "gooks" in 2002. Gotta lock up that racist vote, although it may be pretty easy if he's against Obama.

On a side note with McCain, I thought he did terrible in the debates! I mean come on, "umm it was a buzzword... buzzword!!" to try and indict Romney for "timetables". Romney killed him in the substantiative part of the Iraq issue, and all he could do was say "It was a buzzword". Overall, I thought McCain absolutely sucks at debating, and it makes me wonder how he is such an active member of congress. I don't have much against him, I think he's a great option compared to any republican candidate for many years, since he's nice and liberal on issues like immigration and torture.

I'm still a little undecided. I can't figure out where I stand on Iraq. We are losing lives, draining billions of dollars, and increasing terrorism on the one hand, but leaving before the Iraqi government is ready could cause a collapse.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8013975 - 02/12/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:






ahahahahaha


wtf


Oh well, I'm sure it wasn't obama that had the idea to put that up, but still....

Who the fuck would put that up (a); and who the fuck would let reporters shoot while that butcher was hanging on the wall? I'm guessing one person in that office vaugely knew who che was, and put up the flag, and the rest had no fucking idea.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Phred]
    #8013988 - 02/12/08 05:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:





That is hilarious.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8014051 - 02/12/08 05:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Phred said:





That is hilarious.




Che
Lenin
Stalin
Mao
Pol Pot
Chavez
etc

THE HUMAN MISERY CAUSED BY THEIR POLICIES

hilarious:rofl2:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #8014091 - 02/12/08 05:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Looks like someone on Obama's staff owns a Che flag, which of course means that Obama is a crazy leftist nutjob




apparently, someone that Obama goes to church with said something about minister Farakhan, who said something about Jewish people, so Obama is a n anti-semite as well.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8014121 - 02/12/08 05:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Looks like someone on Obama's staff owns a Che flag, which of course means that Obama is a crazy leftist nutjob




Well, that person maybe should have kept it in his/her bedroom for his/her self abuse sessions instead of hanging it in the campaign office. And, oh yeah, Obama is a leftist nutjob.
Quote:



apparently, someone that Obama goes to church with said something about minister Farakhan, who said something about Jewish people, so Obama is a n anti-semite as well.




The minister of Obama's church gave Farrakhan some kind of Man of the Year Award type bullshit. Fairly recently. That and the whole black this and black that at that church is quite smelly.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8014483 - 02/12/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah to you  :rolleyes:

But hell, Romney probably looks like a leftist nut job to you


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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