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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Gastronomicus]
#7985592 - 02/06/08 03:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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What the fuck are you talking about? He said "hopefully he'll run independent". I responded by identifying what would be necessary before Ron Paul would run. It would take that much to even be able to approach any kind of realistic, independent campaign.
Can money buy an election? No, but it can buy the means to campaign. Duh. The energy you waste in being needlessly dismissive would be much better spent thinking.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
They alone don't have the power to do this, there is the entire Congress and that pesky presidential veto to circumvent. And by the way, shame on the Democratic Congress for not pursuing an end to the war in Iraq, that's why we voted those assholes in during the 2006 midterm elections.
They don't have to get 66% of the senate to pull the troops out. They only need 51% to reject a war budjet. The latter they could have done, what they have threatened to do, but never followed through with.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
#7985766 - 02/06/08 07:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you think they would have the votes to cut funding?
Really?
Yeah... really. The Democrats would be able to use their 51% majority to at least send a bill to the president (which would probably get vetoed like the last bill of which we spoke) but they should at least be pressing and hammering this forward through Congress. It comes down to general spinelessness as to why they have not done this. Now, if you want to talk about SHOULD they cut funding, that's a much more interesting topic.
Quote:
Do you think they would even want to vote to cut funding?
A better question, even if it was rhetorical. No, they do not. The Democrats are so timid they will not even stand up to the president, even when mandated by the American people to do so. When it comes down to it (as fireworks suggests), the Democrats essentially postured for the American people during the 2006 midterm elections pandering to those voters discontent with the war so they could get into office, not so they could actually do something about the situation. They are scared the public will see them as not supporting the troops (blanket Republican accusation for disagreeing with the president on the war) so they pretty much gave the president carte blanche for spending on the war and basically rolled over and played dead.
Quote:
They only need 51% to reject a war budjet. The latter they could have done, what they have threatened to do, but never followed through with.
That's what I thought, I'm still a bit unsure on that though. The Dems seem content to pay lip service to the antiwar movement that voted them but not even challenge the president. That's bullshit.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: fireworks_god]
#7985828 - 02/06/08 08:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Unless I am mistaken you can't donate more than 50K to an individual candidate
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
#7985839 - 02/06/08 08:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service.
What about Kuccinich?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
#7985849 - 02/06/08 08:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: If Hillary wins.. we'll be staying indefinately in Iraq too. At least Mccain's got the balls to admit it. I think he's a sellout, but in the end, if he wins, after he's done with the "we gotta stay in iraq" speeches just to please the rest of the repubs, he'll be the one repub (besides paul) who probably has the best chance to review the situation with more realistic eyes. I mean hell... could you see Mccain being any WORSE than what we have now? Mccain proves that he's at least CAPABLE of listening to people and not just being a corporate puppet.
Just my opinion though... I can't count how many times Ive heard Hillary cop with with something to the effect of
"WE NEED TO GET OUT OF IRAQ... cough cough.. unless.. ummm.. there's some alqueda stuff going on yada yada we'll stick around and bla bla bla". Whenever she talks about getting out of Iraq she ALWAYS throws in some caveat about possibly staying, just so she can say later on, that she never lied to anyone when she keeps the troops there forever and just ignores the situation.
Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service. If Hillary and Obama were THAT worried about the war, they'd have ended it months ago.
great post, pretty much my thoughts exactly... from what I've read, Obama seems pretty keen to skip town on iraq too, though not to the extent of Paul, obviously.
I really don't get the hillary thing... is it just name recognition? The woman issue (which bugs the shit out of me)... dunno
maybe healthcare issues? though I don't know how she differentiates herself from obama, and not sure the American conscious reaches far back enough to still associate her w/ the first term stuff she wen for, but maybe
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: gluke bastid]
#7986090 - 02/06/08 10:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
BrAiN said: Face it.. Paul was the ONLY candidate that was serious about getting out of Iraq. Everyone else pretending to be against the war is just giving lip service.
What about Kuccinich?
well.. active candidates
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: BrAiN]
#7986172 - 02/06/08 10:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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What concerns me is how McCain said that he would stay in Iraq for a hundred years if that's what it took for our troops to come home with honor.
He's is incorrectly assuming two things: 1. Our troops currently have no honor 2. We have an infinite money supply
You know, those damn dope fiends were so dishonorable when they returned home from Nam, and our boys now are the same. 
Also, he doesn't seem interested in the declining dollar, eroded personal liberties, illegal immigration, or America's tarnished image. The end justifies the means, we'll be bankrupt and teetering on the edge of our superpower pedestal, but it won't matter just so long as our troops come home with HONOR!
He has been tainted by his little Vietnam adventure.
To me it appears that the trauma he incurred over his five year stint in a Vietnamese prison camp has greatly clouded his judgment regarding the sustainability of our Iraqi excursion and the nature of *honor*.
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: SoY]
#7986192 - 02/06/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Don't get me wrong... I'da rather NOT have Mccain as president... I just think Hillary would screw things up worse. If it's Mccain and Hil, I'd vote mccain.
If it wasObama and Mccain... fuck it... I don't care either way so I'd just write in Ron Paul.
btw I was just drving around Texas A&M a few minutes ago... big ass RON PAUL billboard on the side of the road.... wonder how well RP is gonna do in Texas. Whenever I'm out here in College Station I see a lot of his signs in ppl's yards.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: Coaster]
#7987065 - 02/06/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said: well we are screwed when we retire we are going to be forcefully putting money into social security then its all going to get spent and inflated like a madman by the time we retire and there will be so many old people, disproportionally were fucked
You're correct. You are fucked. Madtown is wrong. It has nothing to do with dependence and everything to do with how they are going to cornhole you with payroll tax increases to pay me. I fucking warned you all.
Of course, if you are dependent on the government you are fucked, too. Just in a different way
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
#7987093 - 02/06/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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We are definitely fucked. we now have a choice between liberal, liberal and liberal...
Now I'm trying to figure out which one of the three will fuck us the least.....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
You're splitting hairs. The fact is that this current Democratic Congress was swept into office on a mandate that they would be some sort of check on Bush and get the US out of the Iraq War.
No, they were not. That may have been your issue but what cost the Republicans majorities was that they became as spendy as the Dems and their own voters stayed home. The welfare queens voted just as much as ever but the adults couldn't stand the stench.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: lonestar2004]
#7987121 - 02/06/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now I'm trying to figure out which one of the three will fuck us the least.....
That's a no-brainer. McCain will fuck y'all the least.
Not the perfect Republican candidate, for sure, but still miles better than either of the two Dems.
Phred
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
#7987309 - 02/06/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
You're splitting hairs. The fact is that this current Democratic Congress was swept into office on a mandate that they would be some sort of check on Bush and get the US out of the Iraq War.
No, they were not. That may have been your issue but what cost the Republicans majorities was that they became as spendy as the Dems and their own voters stayed home. The welfare queens voted just as much as ever but the adults couldn't stand the stench.
Where are you getting your information from? The handling of the Iraq War was BY FAR the most pressing issue that inspired the American people to vote the Democrats into Congress. Alright, as usual I'll be the one citing sources to back up what I'm saying... starting to feel alone in this respect:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/23/AR2006102300766.html
N.B. The subtitle states "Iraq War Cited Most Often As Top Issue for Elections." Among most this is the conventional wisdom for the 2006 Midterm Elections results and the polls stand testament to this.
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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (02/06/08 03:38 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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From your link
Quote:
Two weeks before the midterm elections, Republicans are losing the battle for independent voters, who now strongly favor Democrats on Iraq and other major issues facing the country and overwhelmingly prefer to see them take over the House in November, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
A poll before the election by the WAPO ABC News does not exactly constitute evidence. This is going to have to remain an opinion issue since there is no way to actually prove either of our positions. For an example of why I think the way I do consider Lieberman the Hawk over Lamont the Twat in Connecticut. Also, the Republicans had more seats at risk. Don't be so quick to grab the mandate label. I don't think it happened. I don't think the Dems believe it did either, or they would have cut funding if they really thought that's what people wanted and would give them an electoral advantage.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
#7987454 - 02/06/08 04:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is going to have to remain an opinion issue since there is no way to actually prove either of our positions.
Probably, and I respect your opinion. There were some that clearly voted for the Democrats because of economic issues, though all I was arguing was that the majority voted based on their disapproval of the Iraq War.
Quote:
A poll before the election by the WAPO ABC News does not exactly constitute evidence.
Why not? I think that it gauges public opinion very well but fair enough... how about exit polls from the election itself?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/election.why/index.html
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I don't think it [mandate] happened. I don't think the Dems believe it did either, or they would have cut funding if they really thought that's what people wanted and would give them an electoral advantage.
According to the Midterm Election exit polls, 57 per cent of all voters disapproved of the war in Iraq. This percentage is higher than the alleged mandate that Bush received from the American people when he received 51 per cent of the popular vote in the 2004 presidential election. It can only logically follow that this was a mandate for the Democrats to change something about the Iraq War, being that this was the main issue at stake.
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I don't think the Dems believe it did either, or they would have cut funding if they really thought that's what people wanted and would give them an electoral advantage.
I think the term "pussies" would be applicable in this situation. Maybe political cowards. Whatever the case is, the American people are not happy about this.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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We'll see.
There is a pretty solid amount of rational Americans who believe that that the war was a mistake, but that just up and leaving in the dark of night would be an even bigger one.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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I thought it was more a matter of Republicans not voting for their previously preferred whores than it was for anybody voting for some other whore. It's also not unusual for an administration in power to lose it's Congressional majority in a midterm election. In fact, I think it's the norm.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD [Re: zappaisgod]
#7987561 - 02/06/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, Yes.
If you're talking about the reason you guys lost out so big in the last election, I would agree.
I was just referring to the significance of the voting block that I mentioned on the decision of the Dem's to not push for a funding cut vote. I support the Democratic party, but I would not have supported such an act, and I think there are a lot of people who agree with me.
I'd like to be out of Iraq, but there has got to some kind of rational basis for the withdrawl. Not just a fly-by-night pack everything up and go type deal.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Quote:
There is a pretty solid amount of rational Americans who believe that that the war was a mistake, but that just up and leaving in the dark of night would be an even bigger one.
Any other ideas? When we do eventually leave, Iraq is destined to fall back into sectarian warfare... the only way that region has ever been peaceful is under a strongman or an empire. It's prolonging the inevitable.
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