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Offlinerizingfire
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Business Networking
    #7981897 - 02/05/08 09:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

For many of us who weren't born rich we have explored many home business opportunities and you have propbably seen my classified ad here for prepaid Legal, if you haven't please check it out. It is something that every resident in the US and Canada should have to make sure they have real representation should something happen and at less than a coffee a day, most of us can afford it.

That isn't why I am writing this. I saw a gold network marketing company that allows people to buy gold at 60% off and sell it for a profit and it made me think about Wiccan-Seeker's thread on gold and silver investing. It also made me think that people at shroomery could benefit from this resource I found. It is called Direct Matches and it is free to join and use though I paid for the middle upgrade because there is a lot more advertising included, but that was my preference and you don't have too. It even has all the resources in one place to get an IRS EIN# and anything else you could ever want so if anyone is interested in working from home this is the place to talk to people who already do and find a legitimate opportunity that is right for you. This is a referral link so you know because I don't want to be accused of spamming because I am not, nut I have reaped the benefit of network marketing and though there are some bad companies, there are more legit ones than not.

So Click here to join direct matches for free as my referral. I don't get $$ for signing people up but the most active members are winning cars and other stuff in the contests they have. http://www.directmatches.com/rizingfire


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Business Networking [Re: rizingfire]
    #7982228 - 02/05/08 11:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

man - all these posts about pyramid schemes is making me lose confidence in your posts' proposals.

but yes, prepaid legal is good for anyone who cant afford an actual lawyer


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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: Business Networking [Re: memes]
    #7982256 - 02/05/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Gold at 60% off?

Now please explain to me the economics behind this scheme. Unless it is stolen gold I cannot see any possibility of this being a viable investment.


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Offlinerizingfire
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Re: Business Networking [Re: memes]
    #7982322 - 02/05/08 11:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Why, I am opening up avenues for you guys to have more than the 9-5 BS. Network marketing and pyramid schemes are way different. MLM or Network marketing is legit and even Donald Trump recently said it is the wave of the future and the only way for the average Joe to achieve financial independence. I have lots of friends with bonus cars (well 4 so not lots but to me it is)and I know people making a decent income, better than most 9-5 but nothing spectactular. A pyramid scheme was when you send a dollar to every name on a list and add your name at the bottom, it is illegal. Every business is network is mlm just ones not considered mlm pay salary too where mlm is on a sales only commission like insurance sales, etc. There are workers with a supervisor who is under a manager, who is under a district manager and so on.

If that discredits me then whatever, I help those who are open minded. I haven't worked for anyone in the last several years (not counting the 5 in jail) though there were times that I was poor, I have been pretty well off most of the time. There are more good mlm's then bad now since it is a growing trend and more than 50% of the millionaires in the US got that way from mlm. If you have a specific company you are referring too then I can agree or disagree but saying mlm is a scam is absolutely the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. As long as the product is something that is needed and can stand without the business opportunity then it is legit...though some products only exist becaus of the op and those are scams. So if you find something that seems too good to be true, ask me and I will tell you what I know about it. You aren't one of those idiots that believes Ripoff Report is anything more than a place for lazy losers to complain about mlm companies that didn't make them rich when they didn't do the work and then blame the company or didn't follow instructions and failed, right? How is that the companies fault. I was apart of a company previously that was supposedly a scam and made a few grand without a downline and now the product has been tested and it is proven one of the best on the market, yet only available via mlm. Kirby is mlm and they too have the best product of their kind but they also use storefronts. Many companies that aren't mlm are opening mlm divisions since the rise in people working from home and if the comp plan is decent it is more than fair. They just give the $$ they would have spent on advertising as a reg business to the people instead for going out and using word of mouth and sharing the information.

Honestly I have met so many doubter, I really could care less what you do.. PPL was rated #3 in the world recently by Forbes or Fortune as going to explode into a trillion$$ biz like healthcare in the near future, I am proud to be a part of it and even if you can afford a lawyer the difference is that one, our lawyers would be too expensive to pay for hourly since they are higher than the average schmuck, some get 6 figures a month to be a provider. When you hire a lawyer all they care about is burning the retainer. Since our Lawyers only make more when you are so happy that you tell a friend and they join, their main goal is to deal with your issue asap. You can't buy that!

Some of our lawyers are retired US Attorney generals who charge over $1k an hr if you were to hire them. My lawyer was just featured in USA Today or one of em for some landmark case he just did. These are better lawyers than most of us can affor if we are well off.

I wouldn't write off network marketing unless you like the 9-5. I have my mold business which isn't mlm at all and I prefer the networking stuff honestly...so my goal is to switch out the income over the next few years. Every business is different and some are good and some are bad. Look at the business itself and the product and don't judge based on the business model because you will miss out on something great.

I am not a follower and I saw through the BS around mlm and now I reap the rewards periodically.


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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: Business Networking [Re: rizingfire]
    #7983021 - 02/05/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That's a lot of words. I still want to know why someone is selling gold at 60% discount when they can easily sell it at 20% under point at any scrap metal dealer.

Selling stuff at a loss is no way to get rich, so there has to be a catch. You see, I love to take an opportunity, but if I don't know precisely HOW the money is made, I cannot objectively judge the value of the opportunity.

It seems to me that someone is getting screwed in that deal, and I'd like to know who is getting screwed before I choose to invest my money or not.


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Offlinerizingfire
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Re: Business Networking [Re: koppie]
    #7983551 - 02/05/08 05:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ya, in that case it might be. it was a layaway program where you buy it with 60% dn and sell it at full price with profit or something like that I think or maybe it is like a group buying power....I asked Wiccan Seeker and he felt it must be BS too so it probably is. I was just using it as an example. I know a handful or excellent ones and many that to me are stupid yet legit and then there are the scams. I want to be able to help expose people to the concept yet keep them from picking the wrong one. I wish everyone had the freedom I have. I feel bad when I read about people miserable at work or missing out on their Kid growing up, etc...for a shitty paycheck, fuck that. It costs so little to manufacture even the most expensive products that there is really enough money to go around, as long as you are willing to work for it and the people who slack on stupid lil things are the ones that fail because over time that lil slacking a week has left a big hole development wise. Successful people do that which unsuccessful people are not willing to do.


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aka NHMI


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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: Business Networking [Re: rizingfire]
    #7984110 - 02/05/08 07:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

MLM's are legit. PPL, Primerica, Avon, Tupperware, etc. Although, the market for these products might be a bit saturated already. That's great if you can be successful at it, takes a lot of work. Not the kind of work, I like to sweat over. It's not for everyone, and its not bcs they're lazy. I have yet to meet a salesman who is actually selling the truth. Their products are rarely as great as they talk it up to be.


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Offlinerizingfire
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Re: Business Networking [Re: GnosticWarrior]
    #7984891 - 02/05/08 10:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

PPL just hit 2% nationwide and 3% market penetration in nevada. Money mag said we are positioned to become a trillion$$ business like health insurance. Some states require insurance licences to be a PPL Associate but if you are in the insurance biz it is a lucrative product. I used my membership 2x in the 1 month I have had it, plus my provider lawyer was just honored in USA Today or Forbes..some top publication for some landmark case...I threatened to let a creditor sue me since I have 70 hrs of trial time...the guy was talking shit telling me he decided to sue me over $200 that I will never pay because Bank of America Stole it. The charged me a shitload of overdraft fees and I paid em and then went to close my account so the mgr gave me 170 back and the took it back later that day after I withdrew it, then they charged late fees and an overdraft fee. Was $2-300...don't remember exactly. It got real high and in a week moment I paid some. So anyway I told him that I have 70 hrs in which I would drag out 69.5 hrs and then pay the bill and give him a big ole, "Fuck you sucka!", meanwhile costing him around $30k for a cheap lawyer. I pointed out that if his firm spent $30 k to collect $200, that he would probably lose their contract. So he begged me to set up a payment and I took all the money out of the bank, cost $25 but it's worth the fun I am having with this stalker prick who calls at 11pm.

But ya, Amway, MaryKay, consumables and healthy living technology mlms are usually legit, suppliments and energy drinks and other health drinks are legit but often the product has a lot of testing but also a lot of hype, and you have to walk around like a cult member, don't get me wrong, network marketing will turn you into a walking lead generator but if you believe in what you are doing and in this case 84% is the target demograpghic.8% can afford lawyers and 8% get public pretenders, take out the 3% and call the rest 3% just for a curb against it and you still have 81% of the country that needs this service. The FTC says that it isn't a matter of if you will be a victim of ID theft it is only a matter of when! That is fucking nuts but only 5% of ID related crimes have convictions so it is a growing business. PPL partnered with Kroll Background America, the worlds leading forensic analysts in the world and the only plan that is available that guarantees complete restoration done by Kroll (the unwound Enron and Tracked Saddam's cash)The FTC says on average restoration takes 500 hrs minimally. So that is worth the $25/month, nevermind the fact that 75% of us don't have wills because they are $500 but it is included in the membership along with your spouses and you living will and durable power of attorney updated yearly.

And they fight speeding tickets and you get 70 hrs if you're sued and 50 hrs with a tax attorney if audited and there is a few more pages of benefits. They wrote a letter to my apartment complex for taking a $100 out of the deposit for cleaning the stove and bathroom. It doesn't cost $100 to do a 750sq ft 1 bedroom apartment, that's like $40 around here, so they itemized it but still claimed it for that, I will get my hundred bucks but would have been taken advantage of because I won't spend $500 on hiring a lawyer to get $100 back. it really levels the playing field. Since some providers get six figures a month , depending on the size of their state or region...so many are way out of even wealthy peoples want to spend range, cept OJ...lol There 4US retired Attorney Generals that are providers are about $1k an hr. I like it. I bounced a payment on the ID theft cuz it comes out on different dates, I was all schitzo...I feel safe with it.

All I can say is don't think you will be rich overnight but with many of them if you do exactly what they say and don't cut stuff out and don't cheat you could be making $3-$5-$10K a month in a years time. Avon types will be much harder. If you start doing stuff in your spare time consistently before you know it you will have a business, you have to respect it like one and really want to help people and share your belief in what you got. Right off the bat if the product and compensation plan aren't good then chances are you wont make it. Consider how many products you have to sell to get one at wholesale in profit. Like Ecoquest, any three products and you earned one whole product in profit. For a $750 air purifier that is significant, even for a $10 shampoo because you get regular customers who love the product and refil every month so if you make $10 from one and then next month find one new regular then the following month you have $20. It goes faster than that but the residuals accumulate as well when people see you enjoying what you do and they ask to join, but that wont happen if it isn't working for you.....so if you don't love the product it isn't going to work. Or you can love what the product does for people. I love to expose people to a waty that they can afford a damn good lawyer to step up when then need something and not kill the bank account.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Business Networking [Re: rizingfire]
    #8004914 - 02/10/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't want to burst your bubble but I really don't see pre-paid legal services ever getting to the point where as many people have it as they have health care. I mean come on. Does anyone else agree?


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-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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OfflineSmackshadow
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Re: Business Networking [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #8006961 - 02/10/08 10:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Does anyone else agree?



I agree with you. I think it's a scam as much as volcano insurance. At a dollar a day in one year your paying 365 bucks. Which is more than I have ever paid in legal expences in over 20 years. One would be much better off saving that money and incase you have legal problems talk it out of your savings IMO.

Here is somthing I found a while back concerning MLM's. It makes a lot of sence to me.

Quote:

Here are ten lies I have identified during more than 20 years of observing the MLM marketplace:

Lie #1: MLM offers better opportunities than all other conventional
business and professional models for making large amounts of money.
Truth: For almost everyone who invests, MLM turns out to be a losing financial proposition. Fewer than 1% of all MLM distributors ever earn a profit and those earning a sustainable living at this business are a much smaller percentage still.

Extraordinary sales and marketing obstacles account for much of this failure, but even if the business were more feasible, sheer mathematics would severely limit the opportunity. The MLM business structure can support only a small number of financial winners. If a 1,000-person downline is needed to earn a sustainable income, those 1,000 will need one million more to duplicate the success. How many people can realistically be enrolled? Much of what appears as growth is in fact only the continuous churning of new enrollees. The money for the rare winners comes from the constant enrollment of armies of losers. With no limits on numbers of distributors in an area and no evaluation of market potential, the system is also inherently unstable.

Lie #2: Network marketing is the most popular and effective new way to bring products
to market. Consumers like to buy products on a one-to-one basis in the MLM model.

Truth: Personal retailing -- including nearly all forms of door-to-door selling -- is a thing of the past, not the wave of the future. Retailing directly to friends on a one-to-one basis requires people to drastically change their buying habits. They must restrict their choices, often pay more for goods, buy inconveniently, and engage in potentially awkward business relationships with close friends and relatives. In reality, MLM depends on reselling the opportunity to sign up more distributors.

Lie #3: Eventually all products will be sold by MLM. Retail stores, shopping malls,
catalogs and most forms of advertising will soon be rendered obsolete by MLM.

Truth: Fewer than 1% of all retail sales are made through MLM, and much of this is consists of purchases by hopeful new distributors who are actually paying the price of admission to a business they will soon abandon. MLM is not replacing existing forms of marketing. It does not legitimately compete with other marketing approaches at all. Rather, MLM represents a new investment scheme couched in the language of marketing. Its real products are distributorships that are sold through misrepresentation and exaggerated promises of income. People are buying products in order to secure positions on the sales pyramid. The possibility is always held out that you may become rich if not from your own efforts then from some unknown person ("the big fish") who might join your "downline."

MLM's growth does not reflect its value to the economy, customers, or distributors, but the high levels of economic fear, insecurity, wishes for quick and easy wealth. The market dynamics are similar to those of legalized gambling, but the percentage of winners is much smaller.

Lie #4: MLM is a new way of life that offers happiness and fulfillment.
It provides a way to attain all the good things in life.

Truth: The most prominent motivational themes of the MLM industry, as shown in industry literature and presented at recruitment meetings, constitute the crassest form of materialism. Fortune 100 companies would blush at the excess of promises of wealth, luxury, and personal fulfillment put forth by MLM solicitors. These appeals actually conflicts with most people's true desire for meaningful and fulfilling work at something in which they have special talent or interest.

Lie #5: MLM is a spiritual movement.

Truth: The use of spiritual concepts like prosperity consciousness and creative visualization to promote MLM enrollment, the use of words like "communion" to describe a sales organization, and claims that MLM fulfills Christian principles or Scriptural prophecies are great distortions of these spiritual practices. Those who focus their hopes and dreams upon wealth as the answer to their prayers lose sight of genuine spirituality as taught by religions. The misuse of these spiritual principles should be a signal that the investment opportunity is deceptive. When a product is wrapped in the flag or in religion, buyer beware! The "community" and "support" offered by MLM organizations to new recruits is based entirely upon their purchases. If the purchases and enrollment decline, so does the "communion.'"

Lie #6: Success in MLM is easy. Friends and relatives are the natural prospects.
Those who love and support you will become your life-time customers.

Truth: The commercialization of family and friendship and the use of"'warm leads" advocated in MLM marketing programs are a destructive element in the community and very unhealthy for individuals involved. People do not appreciate being pressured by friends and relatives to buy products. Trying to capitalizing upon personal relationships to build a business can destroy one's social foundation.

Lie #7: You can do MLM in your spare time. As a business, it offers the greatest flexibility
and personal freedom of time. A few hours a week can earn a significant supplemental income
and may grow to a very large income, making other work unnecessary.

Truth: Making money in MLM requires extraordinary time commitment as well as considerable personal skill and persistence. Beyond the sheer hard work and talent required, the business model inherently consumes more areas of one's life and greater segments of time than most occupations. In MLM, everyone is a prospect. Every waking moment is a potential time for marketing. There are no off-limit places, people, or times for selling. Consequently, there is no free space or free time once a person enrolls in MLM system. While claiming to offer independence, the system comes to dominate people's entire life and requires rigid conformity to the program. This is why so many people who become deeply involved end up needing and relying upon MLM desperately. They alienate or abandon other sustaining relationships.

Lie #8. MLM is a positive, supportive new business that
affirms the human spirit and personal freedom.

Truth: MLM is largely fear-driven. Solicitations inevitably include dire predictions about the impending collapse of other forms of distribution, the disintegration or insensitivity of corporate America, and the lack of opportunity in other occupations. Many occupations are routinely demeaned for not offering"unlimited income." Working for others is cast as enslavement for "losers." MLM is presented as the last best hope for many people. This approach, in addition to being deceptive, frequently discourages people who otherwise would pursue their own unique visions of success and happiness. A sound business opportunity does not have to base its worth on negative predictions and warnings.

Lie #9. MLM is the best option for owning your own
business and attaining real economic independence.

Truth: MLM is not true self-employment. "Owning" an MLM distributorship is an illusion. Some MLM companies forbid distributors to carry other companies' products. Most MLM contracts make termination of the distributorship easy and immediate for the company. Short of termination, downlines can be taken away arbitrarily. Participation requires rigid adherence to a "duplication" model, not independence and individuality. MLM distributors are not entrepreneurs but joiners in a complex hierarchical system over which they have little control.

Lie #10: MLM is not a pyramid scheme because products are sold.

Truth: The sale of products does not protect against anti-pyramid-scheme laws or unfair trade practices set forth in federal and state law. MLM is a legal form of business only under rigid conditions set forth by the FTC and state attorneys general. Many MLMs are violate these guidelines and operate only because they have not been prosecuted. Recent court rulings are using a 70% rule to determine an MLM's legality: At least 70% of all goods sold by the MLM company must be purchased by nondistributors. This standard would place most MLM companies outside the law. The largest MLM acknowledges that only 18% of its sales are made to nondistributors.

Accountability Needed

An FTC trade regulation rule that forces honest disclosure of potential MLM distributor income is desperately needed. Toward this end, Pyramid Scheme Alert has launched a petition drive urging the FTC to force multilevel companies to disclose the true income of their distributors. The requested data would include: (a) the total number of distributors involved in the company for at least three years (or since the company's founding if less than three years); (b) the average incomes of all distributors who have signed up for a distributorship by percentiles, not just the ones deemed "active"; and (c) a "weighted" overall average income of all distributors so that the extraordinary high incomes of the small number at the top are not calculated in with vast majority so as to give a more statistically valid figure.




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The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Business Networking [Re: Smackshadow]
    #8008274 - 02/11/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Smackshadow said:
Quote:

Does anyone else agree?



I agree with you. I think it's a scam as much as volcano insurance. At a dollar a day in one year your paying 365 bucks. Which is more than I have ever paid in legal expences in over 20 years. One would be much better off saving that money and incase you have legal problems talk it out of your savings IMO.





If your including years before you reached 18, your figure is probably worth nothing, considering minors are unable to be sued in all states I'm aware of, perhaps all.

But I get your point, the coverage is dumb, you'd be better off doing small claims court yourself, prolly, if your not an idiot. But that doesn't mean its a scam.


Its just another product; just cuz its a bad purchase doesn't make it a scam.


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