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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7987417 - 02/06/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::sun:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7988142 - 02/06/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:

i don't know how it's done either, i guess usually when you project something at someone, it doesn't come back at you, they sort of react to your projection.. with a more aware person, your projection has nowhere to go and it gets confused.






What do you mean by projection?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7989420 - 02/06/08 09:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
i gotta say, i don't like it when people insert thoughts into my head. strange things happen to my energy even if i'm in a closed state, feels like a break in my identity.

i don't know how it's done either, i guess usually when you project something at someone, it doesn't come back at you, they sort of react to your projection.. with a more aware person, your projection has nowhere to go and it gets confused.

i like being in the presence of someone who is on a higher level of perception that most people but at the same time it can hurt.

at least i've been there so i know what is happening when it is, otherwise i might resent that person.




How can you tell if someone is on a higher level?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #7989578 - 02/06/08 10:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

projection = mental projections - putting a map on something to try and understand it

Quote:

How can you tell if someone is on a higher level?




maybe i shouldn't have said higher level, maybe "greater awareness" would be more appropriate, but to answer your question..

the way they move, how present they are (these two are closely connected), lack of pretension, won't humor your ego (if you have an inflated ego, get ready for it to be deflated because they are not sympathetic to your insecurities because they understand who you are behind the mask - this is different than having your feelings hurt, which is an egotistical thing - it's a challenge to the very identity you've created for yourself, who you think you are)

often times have a very high degree of empathy and even some telepathy


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7991237 - 02/07/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
projection = mental projections - putting a map on something to try and understand it

Quote:

How can you tell if someone is on a higher level?




maybe i shouldn't have said higher level, maybe "greater awareness" would be more appropriate, but to answer your question..

the way they move, how present they are (these two are closely connected), lack of pretension, won't humor your ego (if you have an inflated ego, get ready for it to be deflated because they are not sympathetic to your insecurities because they understand who you are behind the mask - this is different than having your feelings hurt, which is an egotistical thing - it's a challenge to the very identity you've created for yourself, who you think you are)

often times have a very high degree of empathy and even some telepathy




Is there a such thing a perfect ego, and ego that is 100% secure, do you think?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7991238 - 02/07/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
projection = mental projections - putting a map on something to try and understand it

Quote:

How can you tell if someone is on a higher level?




maybe i shouldn't have said higher level, maybe "greater awareness" would be more appropriate, but to answer your question..

the way they move, how present they are (these two are closely connected), lack of pretension, won't humor your ego (if you have an inflated ego, get ready for it to be deflated because they are not sympathetic to your insecurities because they understand who you are behind the mask - this is different than having your feelings hurt, which is an egotistical thing - it's a challenge to the very identity you've created for yourself, who you think you are)

often times have a very high degree of empathy and even some telepathy




Is there a such thing as a perfect ego, an ego that is 100% secure, do you think?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (02/07/08 12:12 PM)


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #7991994 - 02/07/08 02:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i guess it depends on how well you connect with the person, how perfect you see them to be.

you, Poid, from my eyes are perfect.  but there will be others who will try and dig the tiniest imperfections out of your image and make you feel tiny and insignificant.  it is up to you to create your security and your ego.  don't let others mold your ego and project false images onto your being.  you sound pretty immune anyways :wink:

and then there are the perfect masters -

http://www.shreeswami.org/avatars-perfect-masters-sadguru.htm

these guys have been known to channel such a divine presence or consciousness. 

osho was a man who could channel such a presence.  yet he was not a perfect man, he had many imperfections.

anybody can be a channel for expanded consciousness, yet not everybody is perfect.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: deranger]
    #7992276 - 02/07/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
i guess it depends on how well you connect with the person, how perfect you see them to be.

you, Poid, from my eyes are perfect.  but there will be others who will try and dig the tiniest imperfections out of your image and make you feel tiny and insignificant.  it is up to you to create your security and your ego.  don't let others mold your ego and project false images onto your being.  you sound pretty immune anyways :wink:

and then there are the perfect masters -

http://www.shreeswami.org/avatars-perfect-masters-sadguru.htm

these guys have been known to channel such a divine presence or consciousness. 

osho was a man who could channel such a presence.  yet he was not a perfect man, he had many imperfections.

anybody can be a channel for expanded consciousness, yet not everybody is perfect.




Thanks for the compliment, man!:grin:

But I have wondered for a while if it is possible to have a perfect ego, in the sense that you can communicate and connect sublimely with the entire human race.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineHighHat
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: deranger]
    #7992408 - 02/07/08 04:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I understand what you mean when you say "lower classes." Its like the 'lower' end of the spectrum is less "aware of being aware." Its not quite like a caste system because everyone in a lower class has the ability to rise up, though conditioning has made it hard for them to question themselves and the world around them, holding them back from transcendence.

Quote:

When I'm around the lower classes, it feels like they all notice my "vibe" and that they are in awe of it.




I have also noticed this. Apparently I can also "do anything" which perplexes me because as far as I know, I haven't done anything, much less anything extraordinary.

Quote:

it is only obvious that people are going to stare at me, and in a way, it kind of feels like that is some kind of mechanism to try to prevent people like me from achieving higher levels of humanness.





I have also felt this, but I have come to a somewhat different conclusion. I think this phenomena is not so much a 'mechanism' for anything and more a fearful reaction. Its almost like they cant predict me, so they keep their eyes on me, expecting me to lash out or do something crazy.

Quote:

Sometimes it feels like I have to much influence on people, and that I am responsible for all the good and badness in the lives of people around me because I either harmed them directly in some way, or indirectly by not helping them open their minds and thus improving their lives.





I try not to worry about this, It's not my responsibility and In fact I think if anyone is going to open their mind, they must do it on their own terms and for their own reasons. Once I got into an argument with someone of a 'lower class' and posed a few questions regarding how they lived their life and weather or not they were even happy with it. Shortly afterwards he started doing (more) drugs, lost his job, and hasn't done anything most people consider productive since. Now I know my questions had some impact because they ended the argument, but I refuse to take responsibility for his recent drug binges and the loss of his job. What it comes down to is everyone is responsible for their actions. Since I didn't give him the drugs or fail his piss test at his job, I am not responsible for his current state. Regardless, I do try to watch what kind of questions I pose to people of the lower class. Some people are happy with the way they are. Who am I to attack their happiness?

I also find it somewhat detrimental to this argument to classify people as 'low' or 'high' and use terms like 'them' to imply seperation simply based on the way some people think, but for the sake of coherence in this discussion, it is acceptable.


--------------------
Have you ever felt like you were wearing a hat, but you weren't?

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #7992423 - 02/07/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:But I have wondered for a while if it is possible to have a perfect ego, in the sense that you can communicate and connect sublimely with the entire human race.




this is why i pointed you in the direction of the sadguru.

people who have gone this far into self-realization can touch many people whether they know it consciously or not.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #7992477 - 02/07/08 04:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I've recently started to rate people by classes, based on many criterion, but basically based on where they stand on society, and why; based on their efficiency.




I've noticed that those who subscribe to the idea of a hierarchical organization of human consciousness always believe that they are at or near the top.  :lol:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: HighHat]
    #7992546 - 02/07/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HighHat said:
I understand what you mean when you say "lower classes." Its like the 'lower' end of the spectrum is less "aware of being aware." Its not quite like a caste system because everyone in a lower class has the ability to rise up, though conditioning has made it hard for them to question themselves and the world around them, holding them back from transcendence.

Quote:

When I'm around the lower classes, it feels like they all notice my "vibe" and that they are in awe of it.




I have also noticed this. Apparently I can also "do anything" which perplexes me because as far as I know, I haven't done anything, much less anything extraordinary.

Quote:

it is only obvious that people are going to stare at me, and in a way, it kind of feels like that is some kind of mechanism to try to prevent people like me from achieving higher levels of humanness.





I have also felt this, but I have come to a somewhat different conclusion. I think this phenomena is not so much a 'mechanism' for anything and more a fearful reaction. Its almost like they cant predict me, so they keep their eyes on me, expecting me to lash out or do something crazy.

Quote:

Sometimes it feels like I have to much influence on people, and that I am responsible for all the good and badness in the lives of people around me because I either harmed them directly in some way, or indirectly by not helping them open their minds and thus improving their lives.





I try not to worry about this, It's not my responsibility and In fact I think if anyone is going to open their mind, they must do it on their own terms and for their own reasons. Once I got into an argument with someone of a 'lower class' and posed a few questions regarding how they lived their life and weather or not they were even happy with it. Shortly afterwards he started doing (more) drugs, lost his job, and hasn't done anything most people consider productive since. Now I know my questions had some impact because they ended the argument, but I refuse to take responsibility for his recent drug binges and the loss of his job. What it comes down to is everyone is responsible for their actions. Since I didn't give him the drugs or fail his piss test at his job, I am not responsible for his current state. Regardless, I do try to watch what kind of questions I pose to people of the lower class. Some people are happy with the way they are. Who am I to attack their happiness?

I also find it somewhat detrimental to this argument to classify people as 'low' or 'high' and use terms like 'them' to imply seperation simply based on the way some people think, but for the sake of coherence in this discussion, it is acceptable.





In a way, though, it is kind of like the caste system. There are many things that prevent the lower classes from achieving. I, myself, am not from a "high class" family, in financial terms anyways, and if I were to speak of these kinds of things in their presence, their reaction would be unstable. In fact, I've done it several times, and their reaction often times was so. The thing is, the average person doesn't know how to deal with, or handle, perplexing information that basically goes against their belief system. The higher class, in terms of intellectuality, wouldn't find perplexing the same kind of information the lower class would. And of course, this is because the higher class, again in terms of intellectuality, is able to decipher information faster and more efficiently, partly because they already comprehend a relatively vast amount of knowledge, therefore they are able to get over that type of severe reaction the lower class exhibit much faster, often instantaneously.

And only in that sense do I use the word mechanism; a "mechanism" that always prevents you from achieving, at every level, like it's always one step ahead of you lurking around the corner. I do not imply that someone is behind a physical mechanism of some sort to control human beings. I just mean that, inherently, that's the way it is. Also, though, you're right, alot of it is is a fearful reaction of some sort. But then you have to ask yourself where did this fear come from?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Veritas]
    #7992703 - 02/07/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I've noticed that those who subscribe to the idea of a hierarchical organization of human consciousness always believe that they are at or near the top.  :lol:




i subscribe to the idea that some are more aware than others, and some are less aware.  do you not find this true based on your observations?  is everybody of equal awareness?

it may very well be that everybody does have equal awareness.  but it may very well be that many are not utilizing their capabilities.  some are too swamped by babble to even make sense of "awareness".



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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Veritas]
    #7992906 - 02/07/08 05:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

I've recently started to rate people by classes, based on many criterion, but basically based on where they stand on society, and why; based on their efficiency.




I've noticed that those who subscribe to the idea of a hierarchical organization of human consciousness always believe that they are at or near the top.  :lol:





And I've noticed that you have alot of anger towards people.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineHighHat
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #7992979 - 02/07/08 06:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

In a way, though, it is kind of like the caste system. There are many things that prevent the lower classes from achieving.




Would you mind expanding the list of things that may keep the lower classes from achieving?

I agree that a vast knowledge base is an important factor in being able to effectively decipher information, but this doesn't seem like a hurdle for the lower classes. Information is everywhere, granted there is false information, biased information, and useless information, but information is easy for everyone (in the US at least) to acquire a vast knowledge base. This leads me to believe that those of the lower class are responsible for their position and could change that if they came to the realization that (and I hate to be cliche) knowledge is power.

Now that I think about it, this could be looked upon as a caste system, although what is the deciding factor of where someone falls on the scale? What are the rewards/penalties of each 'level'? Could it perhaps be a matter of temperament? If it is then this could well be a 'perfect' system. Everyone seems happy where they are on the scale and if they choose, can move up or down. The only limits to this I suppose, would be peers fearful of the said person changing and attempting to influence their decision. I guess you can add that to the list of things that may keep a person of a lower class from attaining a higher level: peer pressure.

Quote:

But then you have to ask yourself where did this fear come from?




I don't even think the people who eye me are aware of their fear. Its a primal reaction to the unknown. I react to situations and ideas differently than they do, therefore I am an X factor in their minds, an unknown. When we are aware of being aware, we are aware that it is nothing but an instinct to fear the unknown then (hopefully) discard that fear as counter-productive and illogical.


--------------------
Have you ever felt like you were wearing a hat, but you weren't?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" -Letter from the Pennsylvania Assembly, November 11, 1755

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #7993021 - 02/07/08 06:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

I've recently started to rate people by classes, based on many criterion, but basically based on where they stand on society, and why; based on their efficiency.




I've noticed that those who subscribe to the idea of a hierarchical organization of human consciousness always believe that they are at or near the top.  :lol:





And I've noticed that you have alot of anger towards people.




I will not respond to personalisms on this board.  It appears that your understanding of the rules of this forum is still incomplete.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: deranger]
    #7993045 - 02/07/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
I've noticed that those who subscribe to the idea of a hierarchical organization of human consciousness always believe that they are at or near the top.  :lol:




i subscribe to the idea that some are more aware than others, and some are less aware.  do you not find this true based on your observations?  is everybody of equal awareness?




I think that any perception we may have of someone else's awareness or lack thereof is pure guesswork on our part, and perhaps projection.  We cannot possibly know what someone else's "level" of awareness might be, nor can we accurately assess our own, IMO.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: HighHat]
    #7993057 - 02/07/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HighHat said:
Quote:

In a way, though, it is kind of like the caste system. There are many things that prevent the lower classes from achieving.




Would you mind expanding the list of things that may keep the lower classes from achieving?

I agree that a vast knowledge base is an important factor in being able to effectively decipher information, but this doesn't seem like a hurdle for the lower classes. Information is everywhere, granted there is false information, biased information, and useless information, but information is easy for everyone (in the US at least) to acquire a vast knowledge base. This leads me to believe that those of the lower class are responsible for their position and could change that if they came to the realization that (and I hate to be cliche) knowledge is power.

Now that I think about it, this could be looked upon as a caste system, although what is the deciding factor of where someone falls on the scale? What are the rewards/penalties of each 'level'? Could it perhaps be a matter of temperament? If it is then this could well be a 'perfect' system. Everyone seems happy where they are on the scale and if they choose, can move up or down. The only limits to this I suppose, would be peers fearful of the said person changing and attempting to influence their decision. I guess you can add that to the list of things that may keep a person of a lower class from attaining a higher level: peer pressure.

Quote:

But then you have to ask yourself where did this fear come from?




I don't even think the people who eye me are aware of their fear. Its a primal reaction to the unknown. I react to situations and ideas differently than they do, therefore I am an X factor in their minds, an unknown. When we are aware of being aware, we are aware that it is nothing but an instinct to fear the unknown then (hopefully) discard that fear as counter-productive and illogical.





I wouldn't mind very much, but may you permit me to ask you a little bit about yourself? Growing up, where would you say your parents were, financially, lower class, lower-middle class, middle class, upper-middle class, high class, or even upper high class?


The fear mentioned wasn't fear of others, it was your own fear. Fear was kind of a harsh word, more like acute nervousness caused by the awareness that others are watching you.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (02/07/08 06:41 PM)


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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: Veritas]
    #7993067 - 02/07/08 06:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:I think that any perception we may have of someone else's awareness or lack thereof is pure guesswork on our part, and perhaps projection.  We cannot possibly know what someone else's "level" of awareness might be, nor can we accurately assess our own, IMO.




can you tell how unaware a person is? :wink:

there's surely got to be signs.


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Re: What is spirituality? [Re: deranger]
    #7993090 - 02/07/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The way we interpret the signs is based upon our own standard of what awareness looks like, and so it is guesswork.  We might be able to claim that someone who walks into mid-day traffic & causes an accident was unaware of their surroundings at the time, but can we say that they are less aware, in general, than someone else?

These comparisons are meaningless and baseless, and seem mostly designed  for self-aggrandizement.  :shrug:


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