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OfflineMuShQuEsT
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9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics)
    #7979458 - 02/04/08 07:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So last saturday I inoculated 4 quart jars of rye berries and 5 1/2 to 1 pint jars of BRF with 2 cambo syringes. All brf jars show signs of growth (some far more then others) But none of the rye show ANY signs of growth whatsoever. No visible contams or mycellium.

I have read that if a week passes with no growth something went wrong. Which is the reason for my post. I prepared as followed

I bought the rye from an ULTRA hippie vegan small grocery(It didn't come by the bag but rather scoop your own by the pound. It did say organic)
Soaked berries for 16+ hours
washed and simmered for bout 15-20 minutes
while hot strained and sifted to dry off
20 minutes later loaded jars bout 3/4ths full
PCed for bout 2 hours
innculated the next morning under sterile conditions
bout 2cc per jar
oh ya, I'm using a 3/4" hole stuffed with Polyfil for gas exchange

They have been incubating with the BRF jars at the top shelf of my closet. Temps a consistent 80-84.





As you may or may not be able to see from the pics they are certainly not too wet. If anything they are on the dry side

PLEASE anyone with good experience with rye help me! I can't figure out what could be wrong. I cracked open 1 jar to see if there was any strange smell but it just smelled like rye thatd been kept at round 83 degrees

The only thing I can think of is that its not actually organic rye but considering the source and that the label said organic i'm at a loss.

Please help!


--------------------
Professor Farnsworth: For example, if you killed your grandfather, you'd cease to exist!
Fry: But existing is basically all I do!
-Futurama "Roswell that ends well"


Edited by MuShQuEsT (02/04/08 07:34 PM)


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Offlinelovingtickels
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: MuShQuEsT]
    #7979482 - 02/04/08 07:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you got me. no growth is better then contam. your doing something right so far. and you say the same solution worked under another substrate.
inoculate again?
wait?
i think you assumption of faulty rye might have something to do with it.

what brand was it?


--------------------
I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
- Al Franken


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OfflineBejeezis
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Registered: 01/18/08
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: MuShQuEsT]
    #7979501 - 02/04/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds to me like there might have been a fungicide on the rye.

When they advertise organic it usually means no preservatives or any of that junk but to be officially labeled organic, it simply needs to be GROWN organically (without unnatural chemicals)... after its been picked they can do less than organic things to it to keep it from going bad to a degree.

Atleast that's how it was a few years ago when I worked with a vegan and he filled me in everyday about things only vegans know or care about. Maybe "organic" has become a much stricter label these days and I'm totally off.

Whatever you do, wait a few more days. No harm in that I'd think. Hopefully someone will know a definitive answer because it sounds like you covered all the usual shortcomings that causes problems like these.


--------------------
___________________________________________________________

Whether you're here to learn or teach the art of mycology,
do so with an open mind.

My posts are 100% fictional... 
I'm just makin it all up! :wink:


Edited by Bejeezis (02/04/08 07:44 PM)


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: lovingtickels]
    #7979504 - 02/04/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you used 2 syringes for 9 jars?? What a waste


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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Offlinelovingtickels
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: tahoe]
    #7979525 - 02/04/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

when i first saw tahoe's postsss i said "what an ass". but now i know we gotta know we have so far to go and there is nothing like the drill sarge to help us understand. i think im getting soft on you tahoe. better put me in my place


--------------------
I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
- Al Franken


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OfflineMuShQuEsT
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: tahoe]
    #7979564 - 02/04/08 07:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, I still have around 6+ cc in one of the syringes. I simply used solution from 2 different syringes. I suppose I should clarify that

Also, I'm thinkin of making an lc and shooting up a few cc's of that in. If that doesn't cause some growth then I'm lost.


--------------------
Professor Farnsworth: For example, if you killed your grandfather, you'd cease to exist!
Fry: But existing is basically all I do!
-Futurama "Roswell that ends well"


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: lovingtickels]
    #7979599 - 02/04/08 07:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

9 days isn't all that long. Give it at least another week before you start freaking out. Especially if you injected into the middle of the jar.


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Offlinegreystealth
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Yossarian22]
    #7979655 - 02/04/08 08:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

did you inject into the middle of the jar? I recently tried my hand at some Wagner Wild Bird food- don't know if there is fungicide or not.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: greystealth]
    #7979667 - 02/04/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

has there ever been a case where there was positivly fungicied in the seed and it resulted in no colonization?


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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Offlinelovingtickels
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: tahoe]
    #7979734 - 02/04/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

positively, i dunno. might be cost prohibitive to find out.
i have used to different rye with the same lc. before i know there was difference and the one that wasn't labeled organic didn't do shiest


--------------------
I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
- Al Franken


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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Bejeezis]
    #7979735 - 02/04/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bejeezis said:
Sounds to me like there might have been a fungicide on the rye.

When they advertise organic it usually means no preservatives or any of that junk but to be officially labeled organic, it simply needs to be GROWN organically (without unnatural chemicals)... after its been picked they can do less than organic things to it to keep it from going bad to a degree.

Atleast that's how it was a few years ago when I worked with a vegan and he filled me in everyday about things only vegans know or care about. Maybe "organic" has become a much stricter label these days and I'm totally off.

Whatever you do, wait a few more days. No harm in that I'd think. Hopefully someone will know a definitive answer because it sounds like you covered all the usual shortcomings that causes problems like these.




"Organic" is a very strict label. In order for Products/produce to be able to carry the "organic" label it has to be grown on land that has been pesticide free for a certain amount of time. Furthermore, the soil on that said land has to be tested and approved by the USDA. I really don't think that after the growing process they would add fungicides. Defeats the entire concept of being "organic". (I am referring to grains and produce). Has any one even questioned the Syringe itself!


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


Edited by The shroomy 1 (02/04/08 08:21 PM)


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OfflineMuShQuEsT
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7979765 - 02/04/08 08:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well since I bought it by the pound and the label on the container just said organic and not an offical bag is the reason I question it.

The reason I'm not too worried about the syringe is because I have BRF growing fine from the same syringe.


--------------------
Professor Farnsworth: For example, if you killed your grandfather, you'd cease to exist!
Fry: But existing is basically all I do!
-Futurama "Roswell that ends well"


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OfflineBejeezis
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7979871 - 02/04/08 08:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The shroomy 1 said:
Quote:

Bejeezis said:
Sounds to me like there might have been a fungicide on the rye.

When they advertise organic it usually means no preservatives or any of that junk but to be officially labeled organic, it simply needs to be GROWN organically (without unnatural chemicals)... after its been picked they can do less than organic things to it to keep it from going bad to a degree.

Atleast that's how it was a few years ago when I worked with a vegan and he filled me in everyday about things only vegans know or care about. Maybe "organic" has become a much stricter label these days and I'm totally off.

Whatever you do, wait a few more days. No harm in that I'd think. Hopefully someone will know a definitive answer because it sounds like you covered all the usual shortcomings that causes problems like these.




"Organic" is a very strict label. In order for Products/produce to be able to carry the "organic" label it has to be grown on land that has been pesticide free for a certain amount of time. Furthermore, the soil on that said land has to be tested and approved by the USDA. I really don't think that after the growing process they would add fungicides. Defeats the entire concept of being "organic". (I am referring to grains and produce). Has any one even questioned the Syringe itself!




GAH! It's happening all over again!

On a more serious level...

Since the grain was in bins, perhaps the store owner added a lil majik to keep his product fresh?

I dunno, I would like to believe that "all organic" companies wouldn't do anything to deceive customers but business is business and the "all organic" label sells regardless of half-truths. If they can technically get away with squirting non-organic junk on it after the organic stamp has been applied... you know SOMEONE is willing to do it.

That being said...
It would be rare that the soaking/rinsing process didn't clean of those chemicals either way so it's a real shot in the dark.

Wait for another week... hell, wait till it contams for that matter.

I wouldn't try to waste any more spores on that grain any time soon tho.

Cheers!


Edited by Bejeezis (02/04/08 08:45 PM)


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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: MuShQuEsT]
    #7979887 - 02/04/08 08:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm sorry, "THE TERM", (organic), bears with it a heavy burden in the U.S.A. You can't "make the claim" without the USDA rules being applied. To better understand this, take a look at this......http://www.dellanatura.com/about_organic.asp


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


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Offlinelovingtickels
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Bejeezis]
    #7979908 - 02/04/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

being in bins. dam im out of that stuff. this looks the same. and we can sell it for more... or oh restock the bin. this bag says rye thats it.


--------------------
I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
- Al Franken


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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: lovingtickels]
    #7980074 - 02/04/08 09:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yea, yea, yada yada yad..... That is why back in the day, I only had ONE DEALER for my shit. Always knew that it was not stepped on,(at least not by him). lol! I'm sorry, I buy organic stuff from "Whole Foods", my local organic grocery store. I KNOW I CAN TRUST THEM. That is my "Organic Food Dealer" This is my Organic Food Dealer...http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


Edited by The shroomy 1 (02/04/08 09:15 PM)


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OfflineBejeezis
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7980094 - 02/04/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The shroomy 1 said:
I'm sorry, "THE TERM", (organic), bears with it a heavy burden in the U.S.A. You can't "make the claim" without the USDA rules being applied. To better understand this, take a look at this......http://www.dellanatura.com/about_organic.asp




No offence intended, I'm just speculating. I agree that it's probably organic through and through if it got the seal of approval.

But seriously, bins man ... bins. lol

Cheers!


--------------------
___________________________________________________________

Whether you're here to learn or teach the art of mycology,
do so with an open mind.

My posts are 100% fictional... 
I'm just makin it all up! :wink:


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OfflineMuShQuEsT
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Bejeezis]
    #7980273 - 02/04/08 09:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the input everyone.

I did inject into the centerish and not the sides. Does this make a big difference?


--------------------
Professor Farnsworth: For example, if you killed your grandfather, you'd cease to exist!
Fry: But existing is basically all I do!
-Futurama "Roswell that ends well"


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: MuShQuEsT]
    #7980539 - 02/04/08 10:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

When the mycelium starts to grow, it'll probably do so starting at the center and working outwards, meaning, yes, it will take longer for it to be visible.


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Yossarian22]
    #7980666 - 02/04/08 10:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Also if your grain is a bit dry, a good LC will make quick work.

-Graham


--------------------
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OfflineBejeezis
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: MuShQuEsT]
    #7980707 - 02/04/08 10:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Try this!

Shake the living shit outta your jars!!  :rockon:

That will stir up the myc inside (if there is any) and increase the rate of colonization drastically!

I just assumed you shook em but if you haven't, that will help, no doubts about it.  Don't worry about the myc, it'll be growin again within 24 hours and it'll be growing from more places in the jar.

Cheers!


--------------------
___________________________________________________________

Whether you're here to learn or teach the art of mycology,
do so with an open mind.

My posts are 100% fictional... 
I'm just makin it all up! :wink:


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Offlinegaladar


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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Bejeezis]
    #7981196 - 02/05/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i hope they arent too dry neither.
someone like me would soak for 36-48 hours but thats wheat and wheat can absorb a shitload.

also, shake the living life of it, and report back in 4-5 days.


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: 9 days and nothing on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: galadar]
    #7981682 - 02/05/08 08:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Your rye jar's look great man.

I'm going with a anti-fungicide agent in with the rye grass seed, dang fake hippie stores! :wink:

When my friend prepares his rye jar's he soaks for 36 hours in tap water, drains in a colander and gives them a good hot water wash until that endospore smell is gone. then he lets them sit for anywhere from 6 to 12 hours, mixing them occasionally to insure they dry properly, after that he loads up the jars and PC's them for 90 minutes at 15psi.

Lets the PC cool, then dumps the grains back out into a 22qt PC and re soaks only this time adding two table spoons of instant coffee to 1mug of boiled water, caffeine acts as a stimulant to fungi and it will be absorbed by the grains during this second soak time.

The reason he does this is because the endospore in the rye here is so ridiculously high you can not have success without the second soak process.

You could try it this way to try to leech out most of the anti-fungicides from the kernels since the first PC process will soften up the outer/inner kernel, replace the water half way through the soak to insure any toxins are not re-absorbed by the kernels.

Just a theory of mine but who knows. Hope it works out for you, take care.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: 9 days and nothing on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: HybridprX]
    #7981784 - 02/05/08 08:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

did you shake after innoc? ive heard a few negative reports on shaking after inoculation but honestly if everthing is good. you should always shake the hell out of it right after you knock it up. speeds up coloniztion by atleast half the time...i would get the rye from a vendor there is no tellin what there putin in there... even if it says organic


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Offlinegawn
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7982010 - 02/05/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you might try simmering the rye for 40-60 minutes. until you see the first signs of the kernels splitting and opening up. this would be the correct saturation point . imo


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Offlinedjsethall
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7982195 - 02/05/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If I were you, I would do a LC. LC is great, because you can make it by the gallon if you want and still use as little as 1 cc of your spore syringe. I'm just a newb, but I think I have the LC part of this hobby down. I use light dried malt extract at 2% by weight with distilled water. You can get it at your local brew shop for about 3 bucks a pound. Or roughly enough to make about 22,700 ml of LC solution. Thats almost 23 liters. Remember 5 gallons is 18.9 litres. Super cheap!!! Just my 2 cents


--------------------
Any posts made by me are purely fictional in nature and by no means is anything I say to be taken seriously. I do not grow or condone the growing of anything not legal. Any and all pictures I post are pictures wideley available on the internet and any discussions I am involved in are purely hypothetical or are commentary in nature and should not constitute advice or be considered advice to assist in activities that are deemed illegal.


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Offlinegaladar


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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: djsethall]
    #7988012 - 02/06/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i shake after multispore inoculation, after the shake, theres about 50 inoculation points within 3 days.


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OfflineJeffP170
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7993924 - 02/07/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hey, I'm having the same problem and I used Bob's organic rye flour, made the jars using the same proportions as the BRF recipe and after a week, still nothing. Did I do something wrong? BTW there is no contamination in the jars so my sterilization worked well and I inoculated in four holes around the side.


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Offlinegreystealth
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: JeffP170]
    #7994533 - 02/08/08 12:10 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I had BRF cakes take 2 weeks one time before showing signs of myc-then it was rapid colonization afterwards.


I used flax seed....


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OfflineMuShQuEsT
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: greystealth]
    #7994674 - 02/08/08 01:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well it's now been almost 13 days and still absolutely nothing. I've basically given up any hope on getting anything out of them.

I'm starting an lc tonight so hopefully that will yeild me better results on my next try


--------------------
Professor Farnsworth: For example, if you killed your grandfather, you'd cease to exist!
Fry: But existing is basically all I do!
-Futurama "Roswell that ends well"


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Offlinenekrakys
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: MuShQuEsT]
    #7995730 - 02/08/08 10:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i got same problem. No contams nor mycelium growth. Maybe LC can solve problem :confused:


--------------------
DEA - 8th deadliest sin


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OfflineJeffP170
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Registered: 01/18/08
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Re: 9 days and nothin on quarts of rye (pics) [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #8058823 - 02/22/08 11:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Why would you have asked the question if you already knew all you needed to learn about cultivating mushrooms? Seems a bit arrogant to me. Maybe you should eat some of what you've cultivated and mellow out a bit, the dude was trying to be helpful.


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