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Offlinetoytac
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ARE THESE PINS???
    #7977049 - 02/04/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

hey guys

i let my myc grow in 86 degrees in my casing just enough to see a couple patches.. i then dropped 10 degrees and etc..

its been about 6-7 days and now the mycelium has expanded and this has happened.. are these pins? some will get big.. but then dissappear.. and others will pop up.. HOW CAN I GET THEM TO GROW BIG AND TALL!!?? LOL

heres the pic.. they look like little sparkly dots!


thanks guys!


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977055 - 02/04/08 09:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

if those are the first patches of myc coming up patch them put more casing soil over them so u will have an even pinset


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Supplier]
    #7977060 - 02/04/08 09:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see any pins, I see myc outgrowing other spots.


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: shevanel]
    #7977066 - 02/04/08 09:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

if those arent pins.. what are those little dark dots on the top of plain white myc?


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977074 - 02/04/08 09:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

hmm, I see what you're pointing at, but I don't have an answer, if it IS pins it looks like a big explosion about to occur


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977084 - 02/04/08 09:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If they were pins, you would have had mushrooms within a day or two after they appeared.

Looks like mycelium, and you should probably put more casing soil over it.

And read hyphae's casing tek...


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OfflineSupplier
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: shevanel]
    #7977086 - 02/04/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

im telling u patch them up n let it sit a little longer


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Invisiblejoshua m
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Supplier]
    #7977095 - 02/04/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No those r not pins let the myc grow more the entire casing layer should appear at one time all like that


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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: joshua m]
    #7977114 - 02/04/08 10:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

that doesn't even look like mycelium to me.


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Invisibleshroober
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7977122 - 02/04/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
that doesn't even look like mycelium to me.




i would have to agree with that. something does not look right in that picture, perhaps it's the overall green tint that is throwing me off :smile:


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: shroober]
    #7977127 - 02/04/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That's a weird myc breakthrough...lol...almost look like genetic mutations


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: shroober]
    #7977134 - 02/04/08 10:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

my i phone has a shitty camera.. its deff myc lol


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977143 - 02/04/08 10:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

what are the shit ton of little dots that are getting bigger on the mycelia?


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977148 - 02/04/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

it looks like on left there's some white stuff too, right beside the "myc". maybe it is mycelium but to me it looks like beer foam. what does it smell like? does it bruise blue when you touch the myc?


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977154 - 02/04/08 10:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Wait like 12 hours and see, dude.

You don't need the internet, time will answer your question.


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InvisibleDay Tripper
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977157 - 02/04/08 10:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Each tiny little bump you see is a hyphal knot, which could develop into pins.

IMHO, here is your problem:

You re-incubated (high temp) when you should have cased and placed.

IMHO when Hyphae made that pinning strat, he was using less aggressive myc, cause there is no need to re-incubate with good myc.

I have never cased and re-incubated, always cased and placed, with excellent results.

IMHO re-incubating is the biggest cause of overlay, and it looks like you are well on your way to overlay if you don't patch immediately.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7977172 - 02/04/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It's stroma. Next time, use proper temperatures for colonization, such as the recommended room temp. An 86F temperature is at least ten degrees too warm.
RR


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7977173 - 02/04/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

those are the cluster of little dots forming... they will get bigger.. then just dissappear.. it smells like a shroom factory.. lol.. good smell.. good fae.. good rh too


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977185 - 02/04/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Also low temperature like high 60's low 70's give off healthier mushrooms and final substrates


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InvisibleDay Tripper
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977188 - 02/04/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think at this point you better patch, and place, IMHO.


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977198 - 02/04/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

so.. if i put another layer on the knots.. will there be a chance that theyh could survive?


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7977221 - 02/04/08 10:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's stroma. Next time, use proper temperatures for colonization, such as the recommended room temp. An 86F temperature is at least ten degrees too warm.
RR





86 degrees for colinization is too warm?? i thought 86 degrees was optimal temp ?

so your saying bust up my milo and rye jars.. case them.. and put them directly in the fc?

i have been letting them set in 86 degree to rebuild the network before initiation of fruiting


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977224 - 02/04/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

toytac said:
so.. if i put another layer on the knots.. will there be a chance that theyh could survive?




Possibly, but don't hold your breath. Those aren't hyphal knots.
RR


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7977230 - 02/04/08 10:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

this is confusing.. everyone has their own opinions on what these little guys are..


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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977242 - 02/04/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

ignore everyone else and listen to RR.


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InvisibleDay Tripper
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7977271 - 02/04/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Usually little tiny white bumps are hyphal knots, it looks like thats what you have but the pic is not the best.

Trust RR, he knows his shit.

Next time try just casing and placing, along side another cased and re-incubated, see which works best for your conditions and myc.

The vegetative state takes 5-10 days to stop, so there is no need IMHO to re-incubate aggressive myc, Hyphae himself has admitted this much.

Search all of his posts on incubating casing, and you will find several instances where he say it's not always the best idea to re-incubate.

86 degrees is not optimal, 86 degrees is where myc colonization speed tops out.

So yes, myc will colonize faster at 86 than 76, but so will trich.

Room temp is fine for the ENTIRE cycle, and there is never any need for temps warmer than 72, IMHO.


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Invisibleshroober
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7977281 - 02/04/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
ignore everyone else and listen to RR.




exactly. do this for your first couple of grows and then start experimenting. everyone has their own opinion but RR's is usually the most accurate and time-tested.


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7977283 - 02/04/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

thanks day tripper...

and thanks to all !


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977293 - 02/04/08 11:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

it's not that everyone is wrong but for a beginner RR gives good advice and in general it's better to just get your directions from him.

:skittles:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7977314 - 02/04/08 11:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

So yes, myc will colonize faster at 86 than 76, but so will trich.





Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25 year old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature.

However, maximum mycelium growth occurs at a substrate temperature of 80F to 82F, with a drop off in colonization speed above that. Anyway, this has all been covered to death already, so there's no need to repeat it all over again.
RR


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7977366 - 02/04/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes


Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/04/08 11:28 AM)


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7977377 - 02/04/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25 year old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature.

However, maximum mycelium growth occurs at a substrate temperature of 80F to 82F, with a drop off in colonization speed above that. Anyway, this has all been covered to death already, so there's no need to repeat it all over again.
Quote:




I'm glad you pointed this out RR...That 86F bullshit myth was based off a flawed agar study where heat wasn't generated in TMC = The Mushroom Cultivator...anything above 81+ increases the chances of thermophlies and slows growth down....with grains especially you should never go above 78F because your taking a chance, while the mycelium is colonizing it is advancing its Temperature Degree....Mycology has come a long way in the past 10 years...86F and Dark Myth for incubation needs to die


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7977415 - 02/04/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

so basically... you can keep your colinizing jars and your fc in the same temp only to fruit the fc needs fae and light? but same air temp .. right?


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InvisibleDay Tripper
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7977446 - 02/04/08 11:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25 year old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature.-RR




This is what I actually said, "86 degrees is not optimal, 86 degrees is where myc colonization speed tops out. So yes, myc will colonize faster at 86 than 76, but so will trich. Room temp is fine for the ENTIRE cycle, and there is never any need for temps warmer than 72, IMHO."-DT

So you had to take one line out of the middle of three to make me sound wrong.

Besides, I meant myc temp, not room temp, or outside temp, or FC temp, or I would have specified.


I actually do agree, that never let your room go over 78 IMHO, but since you always say to search, I thought I would show you what searching turns up under some pretty respectable names.

So to act all high and mighty, and like everyone else to dumb, is just a crappy way to moderate. Every single mod in mush cult has quoted higher temps then you, including mushroom guru Paul Stamets!

"incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature" -RR

That goes without saying to anyone who knows anything wouldn't you agree? I certainly meant the myc temp when I said growth slows at 86, otherwise it's meaningless.

So was I wrong when I said 86 is not optimal, but where growth speed tops out? Did it sound like I said room temp of 86?


I just think Roger, sometimes you are so threatened by anyone giving info that you jump the gun and criticize when you could be explaining the intricacies of mush cult.

Why not say, "86 myc temp means 76 room temp, since there can be 10 degrees difference, IMHO.", nice and simple without calling someone out like they are FLAT WRONG all the time.

And as far as a 10 degree increase from the sub to the air, I don't think so cause I put a therm in my sub, in my FC, and in the room the FC is in, and I have NEVER seen a difference of more then 5 degrees between the sub and the room air with a 4 inch sub.

Well here is a quote from EVERY single Mush Cult moderator disagreeing with you Roger, and it's all within 8 years, not 25.

You may well be right man, but to act like someone is stupid cause they quote 86 degrees is mean, since EVERY SINGLE MUSH CULT mod has quoted a similar temp at one time.


Quote:

84-86F is optimal incubation temps for cubies.
74-78F is optimal for fruiting.
BTW myc will produce no noticeable heat, but with enough mass it will raise temps a couple of degrees.

-Hyphae 03-15-06





Quote:

81 to 84 degrees F. is suppose to be optimal.I keep my incubators at 81 degrees F. tc

-Roadkill 06-09-05





Quote:

the peak of this growth comes at a 86 degree inner core temperature.
which for pf jars means about a 80-82 degree ambient air temperature.
for grain jars it's about a 76-80 degree air temperature,
and for bulk substrates it's a 68-75 degree air temperature.

-Monstermitch 10-30-07





Quote:

[82-84 F is optimal, you can incubate at room temps tho, might see some slower growth is all.

-Coda 08-21-06





Quote:

The answer to which is better depends on the depth of substrate you are trying to incubate and if the container is on carpeting or hoisted up in the air. A large bed tends to produce quite a bit of heat.

3" or deeper and on well carpeted floor - 78
less than 3" deep and hoisted up - 88
less than 3" deep and on carpeted floor - 88
3" or deeper and hoisted up - probably 78

-Blue Helix 04-19-05





Quote:

My Recommendations:
Put at 86 degrees for 2 days. Check pan, cover mycelium over with casing. Keep at 86 for 3 more days. Cold shock overnight. Place at 75 degrees for 2 days. Place at 86 degrees overnight. Place at 75, and wait.

-Magash 06-23-04





Quote:

Yes they will colonize at room temperature just fine.The growth may be slower than with the temp at 86'f,but,I have had no problems at all sitting them in my kitchen cabinets.They will still colonize pretty quick.
The best and fastest growth shows when the temp is maintained at 86'f.

-Doc34 10-07-04





Quote:

According to Stamets? The Mushroom Cultivator the optimum temperature range for spawn run for P.Cubensis is 84-86?F. Thermal death occurs at 106?F.

-Anno 08-01-00





Quote:

I've had success in getting casings to fruit with merely a 10 degree drop. From 85F incubation chamber to 75F fruiting chamber, then introduce fresh air, misting (RH) and lighting - this seems to work fine for me. 12-22-04

-Holy Diver






Quote:

I have used a tub/tub with a heating pad for several years...

to disperse the heat I filled the bottom with water and a few holes in the inner tub...the reason is so that the water will evaporate occasionally reducing molds and other nasties

under the heating pad I kept a piece of flame retardant drywall ($8 for 1/2" 10'x8' sheet, broken pieces were free) set on low the constant temp was 87F. I've fruited in that same container a few time with Cambodians...

-Prisoner#1 01-26-04





Quote:

Use the TiT method found here. Incubate in a dark place between 84-86 degrees Fahrenheit and wait until they are fully colonized.

-Wronguy 04-25-05




Quote:

Substrate temp of 84-86 degrees-Paul Stamets, taken fromThe Mushroom Cultivator, parameters for optimal growth.






Edited by Day Tripper (02/04/08 12:45 PM)


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InvisibleDay Tripper
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977467 - 02/04/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

toytac said:
so basically... you can keep your colonizing jars and your fc in the same temp only to fruit the fc needs fae and light? but same air temp .. right?




Yes, yes, yes, you can incubate and fruit in the same temp range for cubes, and room temp is fine, anywhere from 68 to 78, IMHO.

To initiate great pinning you need FAE, 99% Rh, and 12 hours of 6500 Kelvin color temp CFL.


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7977472 - 02/04/08 12:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

IMO it looks like a contam! If not a straight out contammo then its probably the stroma condition as roger reported. Big old dead layer of death that wont put out anything to write home to mom about. Something tells me it's about to show its true colors though, and go green.


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7977482 - 02/04/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

OK You can see that mostermitch makes sure to say that sub is 84-86.

Yes you want the sub at 84-86 but to get a sub to stay around 84-86 then you need a ambient temp of around 77.

Try spawn bags one day and let them sit in a coldish room then pick the bag up it will feel very warm like almost too warm for a sac of stuff.


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Offlinetoytac
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: sandman420]
    #7977483 - 02/04/08 12:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

ive already covered them back up with some more verm.. hope they will show any signs!


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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977487 - 02/04/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Did you rip the stoma up? It looked like it may have gone over lay? and then you should have scratch it with a fork.


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Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,

:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:


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InvisibleDay Tripper
Got a goodreason, for taking the easyway out.


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
    #7977512 - 02/04/08 12:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

toytac said:
ive already covered them back up with some more verm.. hope they will show any signs!




Yeah, rip it up a little, and I hope you patched with peat/verm, and not just straight verm.

Search for 50/50+, the best, IMHO, casing mix.


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InvisibleGabe McFadden
Qwiet, I'mhunting wabbits.


Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 18
Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7983821 - 02/05/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That's interesting, how you quote every single Mush Cult mod making RR look like a jackass, nice work.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: Day Tripper]
    #7984748 - 02/05/08 09:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

AH


Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/05/08 09:55 PM)


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