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toytac
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Registered: 01/17/08
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977198 - 02/04/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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so.. if i put another layer on the knots.. will there be a chance that theyh could survive?
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toytac
Stranger
Registered: 01/17/08
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: It's stroma. Next time, use proper temperatures for colonization, such as the recommended room temp. An 86F temperature is at least ten degrees too warm. RR
86 degrees for colinization is too warm?? i thought 86 degrees was optimal temp ?
so your saying bust up my milo and rye jars.. case them.. and put them directly in the fc?
i have been letting them set in 86 degree to rebuild the network before initiation of fruiting
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977224 - 02/04/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
toytac said: so.. if i put another layer on the knots.. will there be a chance that theyh could survive?
Possibly, but don't hold your breath. Those aren't hyphal knots. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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toytac
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Registered: 01/17/08
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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this is confusing.. everyone has their own opinions on what these little guys are..
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977242 - 02/04/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ignore everyone else and listen to RR.
--------------------
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Day Tripper
Got a goodreason, for taking the easyway out.


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Rocky Mountains
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Usually little tiny white bumps are hyphal knots, it looks like thats what you have but the pic is not the best.
Trust RR, he knows his shit.
Next time try just casing and placing, along side another cased and re-incubated, see which works best for your conditions and myc.
The vegetative state takes 5-10 days to stop, so there is no need IMHO to re-incubate aggressive myc, Hyphae himself has admitted this much.
Search all of his posts on incubating casing, and you will find several instances where he say it's not always the best idea to re-incubate.
86 degrees is not optimal, 86 degrees is where myc colonization speed tops out.
So yes, myc will colonize faster at 86 than 76, but so will trich.
Room temp is fine for the ENTIRE cycle, and there is never any need for temps warmer than 72, IMHO.
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shroober
Myco Junkie

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
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Quote:
b0red5tiff said: ignore everyone else and listen to RR.
exactly. do this for your first couple of grows and then start experimenting. everyone has their own opinion but RR's is usually the most accurate and time-tested.
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toytac
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Registered: 01/17/08
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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thanks day tripper...
and thanks to all !
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977293 - 02/04/08 11:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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it's not that everyone is wrong but for a beginner RR gives good advice and in general it's better to just get your directions from him.
--------------------
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Quote:
So yes, myc will colonize faster at 86 than 76, but so will trich.
Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25 year old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature.
However, maximum mycelium growth occurs at a substrate temperature of 80F to 82F, with a drop off in colonization speed above that. Anyway, this has all been covered to death already, so there's no need to repeat it all over again. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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dumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
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Yes
Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/04/08 11:28 AM)
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dumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25 year old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature.
However, maximum mycelium growth occurs at a substrate temperature of 80F to 82F, with a drop off in colonization speed above that. Anyway, this has all been covered to death already, so there's no need to repeat it all over again.Quote:
I'm glad you pointed this out RR...That 86F bullshit myth was based off a flawed agar study where heat wasn't generated in TMC = The Mushroom Cultivator...anything above 81+ increases the chances of thermophlies and slows growth down....with grains especially you should never go above 78F because your taking a chance, while the mycelium is colonizing it is advancing its Temperature Degree....Mycology has come a long way in the past 10 years...86F and Dark Myth for incubation needs to die
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toytac
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Registered: 01/17/08
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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so basically... you can keep your colinizing jars and your fc in the same temp only to fruit the fc needs fae and light? but same air temp .. right?
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Day Tripper
Got a goodreason, for taking the easyway out.


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Rocky Mountains
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Quote:
Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25 year old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature.-RR
This is what I actually said, "86 degrees is not optimal, 86 degrees is where myc colonization speed tops out. So yes, myc will colonize faster at 86 than 76, but so will trich. Room temp is fine for the ENTIRE cycle, and there is never any need for temps warmer than 72, IMHO."-DT
So you had to take one line out of the middle of three to make me sound wrong.
Besides, I meant myc temp, not room temp, or outside temp, or FC temp, or I would have specified.
I actually do agree, that never let your room go over 78 IMHO, but since you always say to search, I thought I would show you what searching turns up under some pretty respectable names.
So to act all high and mighty, and like everyone else to dumb, is just a crappy way to moderate. Every single mod in mush cult has quoted higher temps then you, including mushroom guru Paul Stamets!
"incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature" -RR
That goes without saying to anyone who knows anything wouldn't you agree? I certainly meant the myc temp when I said growth slows at 86, otherwise it's meaningless.
So was I wrong when I said 86 is not optimal, but where growth speed tops out? Did it sound like I said room temp of 86?
I just think Roger, sometimes you are so threatened by anyone giving info that you jump the gun and criticize when you could be explaining the intricacies of mush cult.
Why not say, "86 myc temp means 76 room temp, since there can be 10 degrees difference, IMHO.", nice and simple without calling someone out like they are FLAT WRONG all the time.
And as far as a 10 degree increase from the sub to the air, I don't think so cause I put a therm in my sub, in my FC, and in the room the FC is in, and I have NEVER seen a difference of more then 5 degrees between the sub and the room air with a 4 inch sub.
Well here is a quote from EVERY single Mush Cult moderator disagreeing with you Roger, and it's all within 8 years, not 25.
You may well be right man, but to act like someone is stupid cause they quote 86 degrees is mean, since EVERY SINGLE MUSH CULT mod has quoted a similar temp at one time.
Quote:
84-86F is optimal incubation temps for cubies. 74-78F is optimal for fruiting. BTW myc will produce no noticeable heat, but with enough mass it will raise temps a couple of degrees.
-Hyphae 03-15-06
Quote:
81 to 84 degrees F. is suppose to be optimal.I keep my incubators at 81 degrees F. tc
-Roadkill 06-09-05
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the peak of this growth comes at a 86 degree inner core temperature. which for pf jars means about a 80-82 degree ambient air temperature. for grain jars it's about a 76-80 degree air temperature, and for bulk substrates it's a 68-75 degree air temperature.
-Monstermitch 10-30-07
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[82-84 F is optimal, you can incubate at room temps tho, might see some slower growth is all.
-Coda 08-21-06
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The answer to which is better depends on the depth of substrate you are trying to incubate and if the container is on carpeting or hoisted up in the air. A large bed tends to produce quite a bit of heat.
3" or deeper and on well carpeted floor - 78 less than 3" deep and hoisted up - 88 less than 3" deep and on carpeted floor - 88 3" or deeper and hoisted up - probably 78
-Blue Helix 04-19-05
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My Recommendations: Put at 86 degrees for 2 days. Check pan, cover mycelium over with casing. Keep at 86 for 3 more days. Cold shock overnight. Place at 75 degrees for 2 days. Place at 86 degrees overnight. Place at 75, and wait.
-Magash 06-23-04
Quote:
Yes they will colonize at room temperature just fine.The growth may be slower than with the temp at 86'f,but,I have had no problems at all sitting them in my kitchen cabinets.They will still colonize pretty quick. The best and fastest growth shows when the temp is maintained at 86'f.
-Doc34 10-07-04
Quote:
According to Stamets? The Mushroom Cultivator the optimum temperature range for spawn run for P.Cubensis is 84-86?F. Thermal death occurs at 106?F.
-Anno 08-01-00
Quote:
I've had success in getting casings to fruit with merely a 10 degree drop. From 85F incubation chamber to 75F fruiting chamber, then introduce fresh air, misting (RH) and lighting - this seems to work fine for me. 12-22-04
-Holy Diver
Quote:
I have used a tub/tub with a heating pad for several years...
to disperse the heat I filled the bottom with water and a few holes in the inner tub...the reason is so that the water will evaporate occasionally reducing molds and other nasties
under the heating pad I kept a piece of flame retardant drywall ($8 for 1/2" 10'x8' sheet, broken pieces were free) set on low the constant temp was 87F. I've fruited in that same container a few time with Cambodians...
-Prisoner#1 01-26-04
Quote:
Use the TiT method found here. Incubate in a dark place between 84-86 degrees Fahrenheit and wait until they are fully colonized.
-Wronguy 04-25-05
Quote:
Substrate temp of 84-86 degrees-Paul Stamets, taken fromThe Mushroom Cultivator, parameters for optimal growth.
Edited by Day Tripper (02/04/08 12:45 PM)
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Day Tripper
Got a goodreason, for taking the easyway out.


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Rocky Mountains
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977467 - 02/04/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
toytac said: so basically... you can keep your colonizing jars and your fc in the same temp only to fruit the fc needs fae and light? but same air temp .. right?
Yes, yes, yes, you can incubate and fruit in the same temp range for cubes, and room temp is fine, anywhere from 68 to 78, IMHO.
To initiate great pinning you need FAE, 99% Rh, and 12 hours of 6500 Kelvin color temp CFL.
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sandman420
Saint PP


Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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IMO it looks like a contam! If not a straight out contammo then its probably the stroma condition as roger reported. Big old dead layer of death that wont put out anything to write home to mom about. Something tells me it's about to show its true colors though, and go green.
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MYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.




Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
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OK You can see that mostermitch makes sure to say that sub is 84-86.
Yes you want the sub at 84-86 but to get a sub to stay around 84-86 then you need a ambient temp of around 77.
Try spawn bags one day and let them sit in a coldish room then pick the bag up it will feel very warm like almost too warm for a sac of stuff.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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toytac
Stranger
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 38
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: sandman420]
#7977483 - 02/04/08 12:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ive already covered them back up with some more verm.. hope they will show any signs!
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MYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.




Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Canada
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977487 - 02/04/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Did you rip the stoma up? It looked like it may have gone over lay? and then you should have scratch it with a fork.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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Day Tripper
Got a goodreason, for taking the easyway out.


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Rocky Mountains
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Re: ARE THESE PINS??? [Re: toytac]
#7977512 - 02/04/08 12:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
toytac said: ive already covered them back up with some more verm.. hope they will show any signs!
Yeah, rip it up a little, and I hope you patched with peat/verm, and not just straight verm.
Search for 50/50+, the best, IMHO, casing mix.
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